Some EASY questions....

[oliverjames]

Hi all

Looking at introducing our 8 week old onto the EASY plan, he is on a rough sort of plan eat, activity, sleep but quite random so we are looking at being slightly more "strict". I’m looking for more information that will help me and my wife manage it a bit better as understand next few days will be tough.

I do have a few questions that our BW book (latest edition) doesn’t seem to cover in detail and was hoping someone could confirm some answers.

Firstly we are hoping to get him into a schedule similar to this:

E - 7am-7.30am
A - 7.30am - 8.30am Wind, Nappy Change, general activity
S - 8.30 - 10am

E - 10am-10.30am
A - 10.30am - 11.30am Wind, Nappy, activity mat etc
S - 11.30-1pm

E - 1pm-1.30pm
A – 1.30pm-2.30pm Wind, Nappy, Activity
S- 2.30pm-4pm

E- 4pm-4.30pm
A – 4.30pm-5.30pm Wind, Nappy, Activity
S – 5.30-7pm

E – 7pm-7.30pm
A – 7.30-8.30pm wind, bath, wind down time
S – 8.30- 10.30pm

E – 10.30pm-11pm Dream feed
A - None
S – 11pm – 3am

E – 3am-3.30am
A- None
S – 3.30am – 7am

Now that’s only an ideal schedule! I’ll try and update how it actually goes the next couple of days but in preparation I wanted to know how to handle when things go wrong – what is best to stick to - the schedule or the actual E, A, S or Y “activity”. What I mean by that is say he struggles to settle down for sleep during say his 2.30-4pm nap time and infact only settles down at 3.30pm, should we wake him at 4pm to not have a knock on effect later? Or let him go the full 90mins and adjust accordingly?

Similarly what happens if he struggles throughout a nap time and it comes to say 4pm and he hasn’t napped? Would it be wise to go straight to feeding or persist with a nap?

Second query is with regards to sleep during day and at night.  During the night is the procedure the same as during the day? Or can you afford for him to sleep at the breast/on you at night, wind and then put down asleep? Or is it better to have him awake after winding so that you can continue the “shush pat” and put down method?

Last night we put him down in his cot after settling him down at 8pm, it took an hour but he eventually went off to sleep for first time on his own at 9pm and we successfully did a dream feed at 10.30pm without him waking for 15mins. After that though when he woke at 1.30am (his regular time so we hope this extends with the DF and schedule being introduced) he fell asleep at breast and myself and my wife were unsure whether to try and wake him during burping or to let him sleep and then put him down.

Sorry for the long post! But any help appreciated.

[mandy008]

hi oliverjames. I have 8wo son & am implementing 3hr EASY as well. I am looking fwd to the responses you get to your post as I havent found much for 8wo routines.

just to give you an idea of what I am doing, its basically as follows (not that this is "right" but seems to be working for us)
8-8:30am Eat
8:30-9:30 Activity
9:30 wind down
9:45-:11 Sleep

This cycle repeats itself 3 hrly at 11am & 2pm

5-5:30 Eat
5:30-6 or 6:30 Activity
6:30-7:10 - 30-40 min cat nap (this is still a work in progress.. some days it works & some days it doesnt)
7:15ish - bath time & massage etc
7:45ish - Eat, wind down
8:30- Sleep (generally sound asleep in the cot after going in awake with 5 mins hand on chest & shushing... this did take about 2 wks to get to this stage after initially rocking to sleep then sh/pat)
10:15ish - DF (EBM with no burping & straight back to bed)
5:00-5:20 Eat (then straight back to bed after quick burp of rubbing back (no patting) - generally still asleep but occassionally only needs 2-3 mins of hand on chest & shushing to get him drifting off again)

With the day time sleep, I am currently trying to extend naps beyond 30-45 mins with sh/pat or hand on chest in between each cycle. If he doesnt go back to sleep, I still try to push him out to as close as possible to next feed time (eg if awake at 10:30 & no signs of sleeping, will try not to feed until 10:45 or after... all depends on what he is doing & if he is showing hunger cues). If he hasnt slept at all for the 3 hr cycle, I do feed him & start again (otherwise I found the whole day is out of sync then the night is and then generally the next day is too as the wake up times are all different).

I have always woken DS from his naps during the day if he goes more than 3-3.5 hrs since last feed then still stuck to the 3hrly EAS routine. So sometimes he could eat within 2.5 hrs if he sleeps 30 mins later in the previous cycle.

Hope this gives you some insight into someone else's schedule. As I said earlier, I am not sure if this is "right" but it seems to be working for us at the moment.

I am looking forward to seeing what suggestions you get to your post (& hopefully some to mine as well).

Post again & let us know how its all going.

[oliverjames]

thanks for input mandy, it does help to see other people's schedules! Had a bad night last night so could do with any help!

Well yesterday seemed to go ok until the night, he slept from 8pm-10.30pm when we gave him the DF for 30mins until 11pm but afterwards after we put him down he wasnt as settled as before and appeared to have wind as was moaning and making noises but did stay asleep. He eventually woke upset around 1.30am, we tried to wind him but no real joy until we calmed him down in his cot and then he proceeded to pass wind for a good 2 mins! We the shushed him back to sleep in the cot but would not settle at all really waking every 30mins.

We got to around 3am when my wife had him on her and he had some sleep until 4am when he woke up so we fed him (he usually feeds twice a night so wanted to start with 1 feed a night before dropping it) and she attempted to wind him. But when she tried to put him down and shush pat him but he was having none of it. He was really upset and so too my wife by this point and so she held him and actually rocked him to sleep and he fell asleep on her until 7am when he started todays schedule!

This is the 2nd night of implementing this so understand its hard but at the moment it feels wrong just putting him down after the DF as it seems the wind is preventing him from settling, but we dont want to wind him and wake him up but i suppose looking back we should have winded him but we didnt know that at the time. I suppose next time we should wind him by rubbing rather than patting which may mean he stays asleep.

One idea we had to help was to maybe use a bottle rather than the breast at DF time but with the wind problems im debating this as bottles would cause more wind that the breast?

We have all the times written down for last 2 days so when im home from work ill dig them out and post them up to see if anything stands out that we are doing wrong.

[Chicane]

Hi oliverjames and mandy

First up welcome to the boards! Its good to have you here.

I want to point you in the direction of the sample routines here http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164027.0

I think its fantastic that you are implementing EASY so early on, if you build a good foundation now things will be so much easier for you as your LO grows and changes.

Have you got a copy of Tracy's books? I find them very handy to have in the house.
Have you figured out what type your baby is? Knowing where you baby falls in the temperament continuum will help you figure out how to deal with certain issues as they arise.

Now, onto your LOs. In my personal opinion I think 8 weeks is very little to be attempting to implement a routine based on the clock. Other people will disagree but thats whats great about the boards, you will get all sorts of ideas and hopefully find one that suits you. At this stage I would be concentrating on the order of your LOs day - that is E followed by A followed by S. And getting them used to this structure. At this age they can only handle being awake for around 1 hour to 1 hr 15 mins. A time includes eating - so really there is only time to feed do a nappy change and have a cuddle before going back to sleep.

I would also concentrate on developing some rituals - have you got a wind down ritual see here for some ideas http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64277.0  Rituals are important because your LO will start to learn the cues for sleep time.

Another thing is to start to watch and learn your LO cues and what his/her mantra cry is. For more info on the mantra/ wind down cry see here http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64160.0

Also working on perfecting your shh/pat technique is important too. Remember that every babe is different and its totally fine to adjust the techniques to suit your LO. For example, my ds hated shh/pat as described by Tracy so we developed our own way which was a soft song and gentle head stroking.

Now to answer some of your direct questions:

Similarly what happens if he struggles throughout a nap time and it comes to say 4pm and he hasn’t napped? Would it be wise to go straight to feeding or persist with a nap?

Personally, I would feed. Its important at this age to keep their blood sugar levels up so missing a feed or delaying a feed is not an option in my book. If the day becomes out of synch and you cant catch up then so an early bed time.

During the night is the procedure the same as during the day? Or can you afford for him to sleep at the breast/on you at night, wind and then put down asleep? Or is it better to have him awake after winding so that you can continue the “shush pat” and put down method?

I vary my nap routine from my night routine so that LO knows the difference between his naps and his long sleep. The main cue for him is bath time. He knows that after that comes nursing then bed. You are getting into dangerous territory if you allow LO to fall asleep on the breast as it can become a prop. You can nurse before bed, you dont have to fully wake him, but don't let him fall asleep on the breast.

As far as gas at night - well, you have to admit its kind of cute when they fart in their sleep! This will abate as the digestive system matures so just wait it out. As far as making noises in their sleep - thats normal! They make all kinds of noises in their sleep.

I have to run now - but I hope this gets you started on your journey - keep in touch, come back to us, we're here to help!

xxx

[Chicane]

One last thing - about feeding through the night. Doing 2 night feeds at this age is really very good progress. I would not start to drop one of those feeds for a while yet - they really need the food to get through to morning. Concentrate on day times and the other things I mentioned first and then take the nights on when Lo is a little bit bigger.

[mandy008]

Hi Chicane, I have 2 of the BW books. Read 'Secrets of BW' about 10 times whilst pregnant then found this forum & that another book existed - BWSAYP - so have read that a few times since DS arrived as well. Txs for your input. I am trying to focus on the 4 Ss & work out our best shh/pat techinque for daytime naps. Whenever DS wakes for a night feed, he gets fed too as I agreed with your last comments.

Oliverjames - I dont think its a matter of doing something wrong - its just trying to work out what works for your baby. Today was a crap day for us with no afternoon nap so after 3 good days of naps, I think we are now back to the start (as I was out for lunch with other 1st time mums). We are only using EBM via bottle for DF as I couldnt get DS to take the DF otherwise. I havent found wind to be an issue with the DF... but all babies are different. I guess its just something you could try to see if it works for a few days.

Good luck...

[Chicane]

its just trying to work out what works for your baby.

you hit the nail on the head!

(as I was out for lunch with other 1st time mums).

You mean you tried to have a life? Are you mad? Only joking, the good thing is as the routine becomes more entrenched and LO gets older you will find that you can have a life and that LO will recover more quickly from off days.

looking good lady! xxx