Please remind me a few things - day 1 feeding.

[Tay]

You would think that having had one that you will know more... Not at all, it's all different!!!!

[L76]

I think we all remember it with rose tinted glasses too!!!!

Block out the bad bits!!!!!

Otherwise surely we'd all just have the one!!!

Thank god we have our LOs to make up for all the pain and suffering us women go through! Men...they really don't realise how easy they have it!!!!!
Although I do keep reminding DH!!!!

Keep with it, hope your milk arriving doesn't cause too much pain x

[A pair of Charlies]

Hi there and CONGRATULATIONS !!!!! 

Wonderful beautiful happy news!!! YEYYYY!!!!

Right then, back to business. Vicku pretty much summed up what I'd suggest. Follow your babe's demand - watch those cues as hunger is so similar to OT (but this is old hat to you!). If no demand after 3h of start of last feed, feed anyway at this age. I wouldn't wake to feed at night during that 5h stretch unless there's a weight issue and Dr / MW instructs it. I was told to wake DS for feeds night and day by MW after he had urates in his nappy on day 5 (slept a long stint & big latch issues)... it was 10months until he'd sleep a long stretch at night again!!

It will be okay. You will be okay. The milk will come. Trust it, trust your body and trust your baby's instincts. You know the rule: plenty of wet and pooey nappies, content baby - that's enough milk.

If you get pretty Dolly Parton and latching is stressing you both out, I found that using the pump for 30 - 60seconds helped - it got my nipple into the right shape and made it much easier for DS to latch on. And remember the GS - the feed feed feed feed on demand and it will pass. 

A bit more info here to make you feel super refreshed:
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=64627.0
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=63428.0
 * http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=70305.0

Gentle hugs    Hope you get to enjoy this magical time and getting to know eachother. 

Charlotte

[*Liz*]

Thanks Charlotte - she is lathcing just fine - but is a little 'over enthusiastic' for my out-of-condition nipples.

The OT v need to feed is going to be a tricky one with this little lady as she seems to have very high sucking needs. J didn't at all.

I won't wake unless medical issues at night - but she has gone super frequent anyway now. She seems pretty hungry.

[shivi]

to give your nipples a break and to let you know whether she is hungry or sucky you *could* try the dummy....

I know its not the La Leche way but there are plenty of very successful bfeeders out there - myself included - with very sucky babies (both of mine) from day one who were on the dummy before day 2 was out.

I didn't have an issue with nipples AT ALL with Oscar and one single blister during day 2 in hospital with Emma...

just my experience....and dummies really can let you know whether they want to suck or suck and feed.

S x

[Vicku]

Have you got some Lansinoh? Great stuff that!

[*Liz*]

Yeah I have lanolin  .

BUT I have cracked  . So this will go on longer than I hoped now as I heal.

Been working very hard on her latch as it now needs to be perfect else I can't cope with the pain, and have started expressing 1oz pre feed to remove some engorgement and shape the nipple. And being very careful to make sure she is fully horizontal for a feed.

I am thinking about a dummy but haven't given one yet. I guess ideally I should try and make sure the latch is right first though? But I guess that depends how well I can cope with her sucking needs.

[LucySol]

oooh i feel your pain i had a really bad crack on one side with Daisy,i used to cry while she was feeding it was that sore.it would pour with blood,it was awfull so i know how you feel.what really helped for me was to put some breast milk on it and to let it dry in the air and of corse plenty of lanolin.oh and i got some material breast pads cos the plastic ones would stick to the crack..ouch!!!

[A pair of Charlies]

DS was a really sucky baby. Feeds lasted an hour until I ended the feed. Cracked - yes. Blood - yes. Lanisoh - yes. Which had the delightful side effect of causing a 'leak' for me, so wandered around the maternity ward trying to find food, with constant dribbling showing through my dressing gown.   Funny really. I didn't even notice until someone pointed it out!!!

Do you think you might have an overactive letdown? Reason I ask, is that for me that made BFg quite toe curling, mutter profanities sort of experience for about the first few minutes of every feed. The MWs in hospital told me that the cracked nipples and the pain when feeding meant that DS wasn't latched properly, so I had to unlatch and try again, and again, and again. Found out when he was a week old and a different MW visited (about the 10th I seen!), that the pain I was getting was completely normal (just a painful letdown) and his latch was perfect. So, just putting the thought out there.

For the cracked side effect. For me, it hurt for a few days but then it didn't seem to hurt much (besides the letdown toe curling, pillow biting bit). I was still using lanisoh. I was on paracetemol for "wear & tear" but wasn't taking it much; but did tie it in with feed times.

I didn't do the dummy until about 7 weeks I *think*. And then only had it a few days as for us it was a prop quite quickly. I think DH let him suck his knuckle or little finger a lot - I may have tried to blank that out at the time.  

Congratulations    So so happy for you (and envious in a good way )

[*Liz*]

I don't have an overactive let down (or I didn't with J) but I do get a burning pain when the let down occurs but I had totally forgotten that part of it all. I will keep an eye out for that - thanks  .

I may try a dummy in the next few days - kind of told myslef to give it a week first really. And she is asking to suck if she is OT (but I mean how do you stop that at this age - even doing the necessary care is sometimes too long for them  ).

But you are so right - despite the pain it really is a wonderful thing to hold and care for such a little thing  .

[Vicku]

Fwiw I didn't have an OALD with Lois, but did/do with Sienna. It's like my breasts in general are just lots more efficient this time round, so it is possible to have it with a second child even if you didn't with the first.

I gave Lois a dummy on day 5. Had some problems with latch/impatience for let down later on, but I am pretty sure it was cos of giving bottles of EBM rather than the dummy.
To be on the very safe side though, I waited til Sienna was 3 weeks before I tried a dummy and didn't give one regularly until about 4 weeks.
I think that if you did give a dummy and it *were* to cause problems, you could just stop using it and be ablet o get back on track. I think bottles are more risky as they can get confused by the different flow of milk. They say here that it is ok to let them suck on your little finger even in the beginning, and I can't see how a dummy could be all that different but then I am not an expert in these things

I hope you are coping ok with the pain and that the crack heals quickly. Hugs!!!

[clazzat]

They say here that it is ok to let them suck on your little finger even in the beginning, and I can't see how a dummy could be all that different

Bizarrely they are different - it uses different muscles in the mouth.  The muscles used for finger sucking are the same as for bf'ing and for dummy sucking they're the same as bottles.  If you want to see, try sucking your thumb for a bit and then sucking a dummy - they sit in different places in the mouth.

Having said that, I don't think there is any disaster about introducing a dummy early if you need to, and as you say it won't take long to get back on track if it is a problem.

[shivi]

I think...but just think...that finger sucking could be a different type of suck again (have just sucked on my pinky, one of Emma's dummies and unfortunately don't have a bottle teat or a breast handy to try LOL). Breast feeding is all about the vacuum and the action of the tongue - to empty the breast and then swallow the milk. In bottle feeding, the tongue can be lazier at the front, near palate as it doesn't have to suck the milk out THAT actively (but with OAL neither do bfed babies like my Emma) and it spills into the mouth.....
finger sucking, dummy sucking, non nutritive sucking on the breast...are all a little different in terms of the actual muscles used....but are all for self soothing only....

but lets remember that there are two different bfing sucks and two different bottle or teat/dummy sucks as well,...and they are the nutritive and non-nutritive sucks. ie. sucking and swallowing versus sucking for comfort. (I studied, trained and then worked under one of the absolute experts in baby swallowing in Ireland and the UK...unfortunately only for a year qualified and a LOOOOONG time before I was a mammy...but I still remember her checking the prems and babies with Downs for their stronger non-nutritive but unfortunately weaker nutritive sucks, usually on a bottle.... but you can have the same differences with the breast).

When we got to the sucking for comfort stage then I let them learn the non-nutritive dummy sucking....But oz was a perfect latcher, fed easily 45 mins per feed early days...Emma wasn't but if she had fed for 20-30 mins and was happy and content then I would pop her on the dummy and see what happened....

Oz loved bottles, had EBM in a bottle from 10 days old for DF. Emma didn't take to it well initially, then loved them, then hated them again (but I got so lax with pumping with Ozzie and preschool runs etc...that it wasn't really her fault) and then when I finally self-diagnosed her tongue tie I got scared as I remembered my boss (the expert mentioned above) telling me that the only babies who really get nipple confusion in her opinion are those with tongue tie, oromotor issues etc...and those naturally lazy LOL! (What a theory). anyway, I chickened out of bottles - and after having about 7 bottle feeds maybe in her life before 3 mths, she never accepted one since. But loves her doo-doos!

My OAL wasn't at all what I would consider painful, and I had it....(would spurt a fountain from the opp side, then leak and would catch 3 oz into a sterilised cup without even having to pump... LOL). It was a warm, tingly feeling....so not all OALs hurt, and yes, mine was much worse with Emma as were my over/undersupply issues.

anyway, hope the crack heals soon.....can't imagine the pain xxx
and sorry for going on my hobby horse about the sucking...its an area of work that I would LOVE to go back to SOMEDAY!

[*Liz*]

It IS interesting though - but the one thing that no-one can answer is which babies are being overly sucky and which aren't, I guess.

I've been watching Megan today and she is cueing to feed A LOT. But everytime she is offered she does nurse for a reasonable length of time and is actively swallowing milk throughout. And, of course, being engorged etc there is a lot of fast flowing milk there which she is happily taking.

Hmmmmm...... it is a tough one to know what to do really.

I think my frame of reference for the early days is a bit distorted as J was unable to latch and has NO desire for comfort sucking at all.

Interesting how different the breast can respond second time around as well.

[shivi]

I was scanned a lot during both pgs and my two always has SOMETHING in their mouths...fists, fingers (all four in Emma's case) or even caught Oscar gumming the umbilical cord once...so yes, I got a sneaky peek into how sucky my two are!

S x