How to persuade him to STTN?

[humph]

Our DS is now 12 weeks old, is a chunky boy, feeds well (he was too hungry for breastfeeding so at 2 months I gave up and he's now entirely on formula) and is working well on the 4 hour easy.

He wakes once in the night - generally around 4.15/4.30 and I feed him about 3 oz and then he grumbles a bit and goes back to sleep until I wake him at 7am. He wants more but if I let him, he reduces the amount he takes at 7am directly by the amount I give him at 4am - so if I let him have 7oz he takes nothing at 7am and if i give him 3oz at 4am he'll take only 4oz at 7am.  So I'm pretty sure he isn't doing it out of hunger but I still feed him because it's easier than having a battle at that time of night.

I was thinking of gradually reducing the amount I let him have at 4am but feel a bit daunted about it.

What would you recommend?  He's otherwise a happy little boy and now naps well, sleeps well and feeds well - phew thank God!

[*Ali*]

Have you tried upping the amount he takes at each feed during the day so that he might be less hungry and prehaps not wake up? Does he drain his bottles or leave some in the bottom?
If you think it is habitual you could try wake to sleep and hour before his normal wake time and see if he sleeps through it.
I found our 1 NW got later and later in the night and is now between 6 and 7am (we get up at . I also have the problem that he is not so hungry at wake up but and holding out actively weaning in the hope that the NW will continue to get later until it is just wake up time anyway. He has STTN to 7:30 a couple of times recently so I am hopeful.
Do you DF? We don't just cos it doesn't suit me but maybe it would work for you if it meant he had more calories and would still be hungry in the morning.
Does he sleep independently? If not do you think he has trouble resettling without a feed because of this? Could you try to work on the inde sleep if he doesn't already fall asleep without you there?
I am EBF so not sure about GW of feed but I am sure lots of other mum's can give you good advice on that.
He's still young so although undesirable it's not unusual to have a NW at his age.

[humph]

Sorry, only just seen your reply.  Will try to answer all your questions/suggestions....

At each feed I keep offering until he refuses any more milk point blank - if he drowns a bottle, i offer a few ounces more.  I was slightly hoping that the NWs would just get later and later but they don't seem to - I've had a few where he's slept until 7am and was leaping around thinking we'd fixed it, only for them to creep back up on us.

We don't DF as such, in that he's awake for it but we do feed at 11.

He sleeps independently - for all his naps and sleeps, I put him in his cot awake and he sends himself off to sleep v well so am sure that's not the problem.

In all honesty, we've now got his routine sorted (he's been really unhappy on 3 and 3.5hr easy but finally seems v happy on the 4hr routine) and he's otherwise a very happy and easy little boy (a few weeks ago I thought he was a very tricky cus but now that the routine suits him, he's a different character).  So really apart from his waking at 4am (which I'm almost 100% certain is habitual), and his crying in the lead up to bathtime (he loves actual bathtime but is just antsy at that time), he's the perfect baby so I can't really complain.  Our daughter was v v v easy and slept through the night from about 6 or 7 weeks so he feels really late to me.  That said, she's naturally got no appetite and is a slight build whereas he's a big chunky hungry boy!

Am a bit of a disbeliever in the W2S, cos I can't see how it could work, though I realise that some swear by it so perhaps that's worth trying.  The only thing is that one night, we stayed up (with friends that had come around for supper) til about 2am and I fed him then instead of hte DF at 11 and he still woke at 5am, the naughty little sod, and yet was quite happy to sleep from 7pm til 2am when I woke him to feed.  So we know he can do 7 hours at least.

[*Ali*]

Sounds like you're doing well for 12weeks so don't be hard on yourself. Might seem worse if you only have your previous angel sleeper compare to. I'm sure lots of mum's (even BWers) are in a worse situation at your LO's age.
Re W2S it seems counterintuitive but it works because babies have different stages (REM, light or deep etc.) of sleep cycles just like adults. They get in the habit of sleeping for a certain number of sleep cycles and then wake up. If they are used to feeding at that wake up they continue to expect it. If however you disturb them mid-cycle they start a new cycle when they go back to sleep and thus don't wake at their habitual point in the night. That's how I understand it anyway. I used w2s to extend DS's naps which were always 45 mins. I did it for most sleeps for about 2 weeks when he was 4 months. It worked every single time I did it and in the early days fo the 2 weeks he woke at 45 minutes for all naps I didn't do w2s for. After the 2 weeks I stopped and now he regularly sleeps 2hrs15 mins but almost always 1.5hrs plus. We only get short naps now if he is OT, gets disturbed and can't get back to sleep or if we are on the move ina noisy place. I can highly recommend it although I haven't personally tried it for nights cos we don't get habitual NWs at the same times.
BTW why did you wake him for a feed at 2am?!!! I would never wake a baby overnight as it disturbs their sleep. If you are waking him at 11 I would stop doing this and see how he goes without it. the point of not waking for the dream feed is to avoid disturbing their sleep. He needs to learn to sleep long periods but waking him could be making this worse. Do you think maybe he would sleep through until 5am if you left him? That wouldn't be so bad would it? Just my opinion.