help with finding second A time for 8.5month old

[aselby]

hey all...we are having issues over here trying to find the magic A time for second nap. my ds is 8.5 months old and is currently doing a first A time of 3.15...he will take a nap of about 1h15/1h30 min nap off of this. ....then, i have been having a terrible time trying to figure out the next A. i feel like i have been trying everything imaginable and i just cant make it happen. i was hoping that i could post my EASY and have frsh eyes catch something i am overlooking! thanks in advance!oh, and we are having EWs around 5. he usually sleeps from 630-3/4ish and then eats, goes back to sleep until 5/6ish. ugh.

i am going to post a few days worth FWIW:

sunday:
605 awake and up
E 615bf
E 730 solids
A 3.15
S 915-1045..awoke at 950 and put himslef back to sleep
E 10:45 bf
E 1230 solids
A 3.20
S 2:05-300
E 300 bf
E 500 solids
E 615 bf before bed
S 630 for the night

monday:
530 eat and back to sleep until 615. i know, stupid to feed, but we've been dealing with EWs for so long now, i just need his day to start later
615 awake
E 615 bf..top off to start the day
E 730 solids
A 3.05...super cranky!
S 920-1035
E 1030
E 1230 solids
A 3.20
S 155-235..woke happy
E 240 bf
E 500 solids
E 615 bf
S 630 for the night

E 300 am

tuesday:
530 eat
600 awake and up..never went back to sleep
E 730 solids
A 3.15
S 845-1015
E 1015
E1230 solids
A 3.30
S 138-220
E230
E500 solids
E 615 bf
S 630 for the night

1am awake and upset..put himself back to sleep right away
330 eat
500 eat

today;
530 awake..left in crib until 6..
E 600
E 715 solids
A 3.15
S 840-950...woke at 915, put himself right back to sleep
E 1000
E `12 solids
A 3.05
S 1255...currently asleep ..its been 35 mins...




i realize that his EWs are due to a long last A...but, theres no way we can sneak in another nap...he either refuses or it makes the day way too long. we just recently made the transition from 3-2 and naps have always been a struggle. he has gotten 2 teeth in the last 3 weeks, the 2nd one came in over the weekend. he has been crawling with his arms for a month, but is just learning how to get up on his knees. any ideas?

[*Liz*]

Probably due a little A extension really - have you tired 3h 30?

[aselby]

hey lizj! congrats on your new addition!

ok, so...our nights are a bit wonky these days....yesterday, he took a  45 min nap while i was writing the original post...he woke up at 140 and refused a 3rd nap later in the day so he was up until bed time which was at 620....he went down no problem and woke up 3 hrs later but quickly resettled....then was up at 2 again and resettled fairly quickly....then up at 4 and was pretty upset so i fed him and he chatted for a few mins before drifting back off to sleep...then was up around 550 for the day. that logged in around 10-10.5 hrs of nightsleep....so, i did the usual 3h15min first A and he woke after 36 mins...ugh. yesterday morning he napped for 1h10min for the first nap after waking 30 mins into the nap. is this a clear sign that i need to extend that first A?
am i right in remembering someone saying that after they cut a new tooth, their As usually increase?
in regards to the second A, we tried 3.30 on tuesday which produced a 42 min nap...shall i give it a go for a few days, assuming that the first nap is long? and by being long, it should be 1h30min+ or anything over an hour?
thanks for helping liz....you have been such a big help to me in the past! i wold love to resolve these issues asap!
hope you're getting rest yourself and this little one makes BWing easy for you!

[*Liz*]

I'm sure you just need to be brave and extend a bit. I do remember your LO one from before and I'm pretty sure they are on the higher side of A times really.

A 3rd nap is not a good thing for an 8.5mth old so you really do need to balance your day out even if you don't get perfect naps.

I would bump both A's to 3h 30 and see - 3hrs for the second A if the 1st nap is a short one.

Your night is just OT at bedtime.

I will try and help as much as I can - I just have some very hectic days myself ATM with Megan being only 2 weeks old.

[aselby]

thanks again, liz !
our nights are still on the shorter side lately...about 10-10.5hrs...been doing 3.15 for the first A and its dwindled down to 36 mins, so, i wasnt sure if that was b/c he wasnt getting as much sleep at night or if it was time to bump...so, tomorrow morning, i am going to bump his first A to at least 3.25 and see where that takes us!

so- i totally understand that 3 naps are inappropriate for his age right now, but what if both naps are short? do i just continue on with our day and have him make it to bedtime? bedtime is around 630-7. tonight, he got up from his last short nap at 220 and made it to a bedtime of 630, no problem. i have no idea where that will take us tonight, but he was happy. yesterday, he had 3 short naps, the last one ending at 440 and his night was wonky for sure...up after an hour with sleep cries, and then again at 2...up at 5 to eat and then finally up at 645 for the day. i was thinking that the 3rd later nap might have thrown a wrench into things, do you agree? so, essentially, if he short naps 2x in a day, you pick the lesser of 2 evils and just go with it rather than try for a 3rd?

[*Liz*]

I guess the question is whether the night works out better on 2 or 3 short naps really.

But an 8.5 mth old will often refuse the 3rd anyway.

Push those A's out again until you get that nap back 

[aselby]

thanks, liz! this morning, we did push that first A out to 3h30min..and got a 1h30 min nap! yahoo! i was out on a hike inbetween naps so i wasnt able to get him down at 3h30min second A...it was closer to 4 b/c he was so fired up from the walk...he's down now but its only been 30 mins...expecting a short, OT nap..but its 330 so that will coast us to a normal bedtime. tomorrow, i will try the second A out and hopefully, it'll work! thanks for your help!

[*Liz*]

Yey  .

Hope it works - but TBH it should as this is what has fixed it before, hey  ?

[aselby]

so, liz....just wondering, in your opinion, if my lo only takes a first nap of lets say 1h/1h15mins....should i still copy that A? we havent had success yet with the second b/c he short napped yesterday right off ( 1hr10mins) ..i think we got his wake up time wrong...he's EWing and i tend to nod off since he doesnt cry, just babbles...ugh. he's still asleep for his frist nap right now after 1 hr..hoping for at least a bit longer....could these EWs be due to not enough A time? i know he gets a long stretch before bed b/c of a short second nap....just wanted to know what you thought....thanks!

update; ok...so he took his first nap after 3h30mins...slept for 1h20mins...we did a second A of 3h40mins...tried for 3.30, but he wasnt showing signs of being sleepy...started our wd at 3.25, like normal....he woke at the 30 min mark with one quick cry and then quiet...then woke 5 mins later crying...OT for sure....any ideas why he wasnt settling for 3.30, but would for 3.40? i should also say that i think his first A time is really 3.35. not having much success.. would love to find that second A b/c these EWs are killing us over here due to the loooooooooooong last A before bed. today it will be 3h40mins until bedtime. ugh. 

[*Liz*]

TBH I would just stick with it and I think your LO will get it soon enough. As they get older they do get more responsive to you setting the routine a bit.

Was probably a bit OT at 3.5hrs so fought the nap a bit - but again I think he will adapt.

Some LOs do seem to get stuck on 2x 1-1.5hr naps no matter what you do.

[aselby]

thanks again, liz! so, i just want to make sure that i am getting this right....you think that i should continue to copy the first A for before the second nap?even if the first isnt much longer than 1hr? he is down now for first nap after 3h35mins. hoping for 1.5h nap..

[*Liz*]

Yeah- I would put him down at 3h 15 so he is asleep by 3h 30 as long as the nap is over 1hr.

[aselby]

well, liz...today could be a fluke, but i'll take it! once again, you have proven to be a godsend! our first nap this morning, after an A of 3h35mins resulted in a 1 hour 30 min nap...he woke at the 30 min mark and peeped and fell back asleep, then again 10 mins later, fell back asleep...yeah! so, then i did a second A of 3h30mins, and he is STILL ASLEEP after 1hour....thank you, thank you, thank you. i will see how tonight and tomorrow go! keeping my fingers crossed! thanks again! you're the best

[*Liz*]

 

[aselby]

ok....so, last night was interesting....he went down at 645 and slept until 415, when he woke for a feed...i fed him and then he stayed up chatting until 5, when he started to get upset...it took us until 545 to get him back to sleep when he slept until 640. then, this morning, he desperately wanted to go down around 9, which is his "normal" nap time but it had only been 2h20mins by that time. he was rubbing his eyes and getting CRANKY....i kept him up until 3h30mins...he wasnt the easiest to put down for that nap. he is currently sleeping now but its only been 25 mins...not holding my breath...what in the world? is he just used to sleeping around 9 and was giving off false cues? should i have put him down then? why on earth was he up for so long this morning after having a GREAT nap day yesterday? any ideas? so confusing these little guys!