2.5 yo afraid of the dark? Or just plain manipulation?

[chars mum]

YES, definitely is reassuring to know that we are not the only ones going through this!    May give the sticker chart idea a go.  DD loves stickers! 

So had worst night in a very long time last night.  Got DD to bed an hour early due to no nap but she woke an hour later, took a little to get her settled again but she did.  I put this little Fisher Price aquarium that has a light and plays soft music while the fish swims in her bed last night.  It's from DS's bed but he never watches it so I told DD that he was lending it to her as he finds it helps him to sleep.  She loved it as I think it kept her mind off of being scared plus it was one more light on in her room!  She was good until she woke at 5:25am!    Trouble was, DS was up every 45min from 8pm until 1am then back awake from 3:30am until 4:30am    He clearly wasn't feeling well, poor little guy.  REALLY hoping for a better night tonight!

DD refused her nap for the second day in a row this afternoon.  We were at a birthday party and left in order to get home for nap time.  She nearly fell asleep in the car and I would have just kept driving but DS was wailing his little head off.  He was OT already and needed his darkened room to get off to sleep.  So I didn't bother fighting the nap refusal, just took her downstairs where we played quietly while DS slept.   Have to get her to bed early again though, she has dark circles under her eyes and is miserable already.  Not sure how to handle the no nap situation such that she isn't waking early due to OT.  Any suggestions???   

[enna77]

Have you tried putting her down for a nap slightly later and then a slightly later bedtime? I know this isn't ideal but we find this helps to do every now and then just so she can catch up.

Not sure what time she was napping before but if I find with my DD if she won't nap at her usual time (12:30/1pm ish) and I think she really needs it I will put her down a bit later 2/2:30pm and then wake her after 1-1.5 hours. Then depending on how she is put her to bed a bit later. We did this yesterday after days of no napping and put her to bed at 8 instead of 7:30 and she STTN until 6:30am. I certainly don't do this everyday but find it helps us catch up on the OT cycle. Thats if she takes the later nap some days she won't do that either  guess its just the joy of the 1-0 transition! Before this we were waking her after 1-1.5 hours max anyway because it was affecting her going to sleep and night sleep.

[chars mum]

Good idea, thank you!     Perhaps we will give that a shot tomorrow.  It is so obvious that she still needs a little afternoon nap, even 30 min would probably help her make it through until bedtime in a better mood.  And we have to beat the OT cycle somehow!   Will let you know how it goes!

DD was a bit better tonight at bedtime.  Not as demanding as she has been, still doing her stalling routine though but the screaming/crying was much less.  The stalling is annoying but the asking for something in particular, getting it, then her pushing it away with a huff and saying "I no want ...." is maddening!  What is that all about?

[anna*]

I really think she's just testing the limits, seeing what you will and won't do, what she can and can't get. You could try having one of those old fashioned egg timers, where you can see the sand going through, and she can ask for things until the sand runs out and then there are no more requests. Or you could make three 'tokens' (like a big button or a card), and each time she asks for something she has to give you a token, and when they're all ran out there is no more talking it's time to sleep. I think you just need to be firm. You know what she really needs, and what is just stalling - if she has had enough drinks in the day, gone pee before bedtime, had cuddles and a story - she really doesn't need anything else and you can say, no, no more, it's time to sleep now. Like everything, it's just about  being consistent. First couple nights she will probably make a  big fuss, but she'll stop bothering if she realises it doesn't get her anywhere.

[chars mum]

I agree that she is testing her limits with the stalling and tonight I tried to incorporate WI/WO with filling her requests.  So after our usual routine, I said it was night night time now at which point she started askin for various things.  The first thing I was asked to get I said "OK, I'll get ___ and I will be back in 1 min."  I returned in 1 min with what she wanted then gave her another kiss and said it's bedtime now.  She said "wait wait mummy" and asked for something else so I saik "OK, I'll get ___ and will be back in 2 min."  (luckily the things she wanted were downstairs!) We made it to 4 min, when I went back that time I gave her what she wanted and she said night night mommy and I haven't heard a peep since!    Seemed to work nicely, wondering if it's too good to be true!

She was up at 6am (early for her) even though she woke last night at around 10pm when she puked all over herself in bed    Took us about 30 min to get everthing cleaned up and her settled again.  I tried doing the later nap time trick today and it was looking promising.  She was in bed, lights dimmed, comfy under the blankets, looked sleepy, etc. but then I had to leave to get to an appointment and that was the end of that ("I no sleepy mummy").  I asked our caregiver to try again in 45 min but it was a no go.  She was once again miserable all afternoon and even fell asleep in the car (she never does this) for 5 min.  Only reason she woke was because we had arrived at our destination.  So did early bedtime tonight again as above.  Really feel as though she needs that nap still, even if only 30 min.  She mentioned the BGB again today so wondering if she might nap in a new bed.  Going to see if we can get one in the next day or 2.  May try the later nap time again tomorrow when I don't need to be anywhere.  Really need to break this worsening OT cycle somehow!!!

[Katet]

DD was a bit better tonight at bedtime.  Not as demanding as she has been, still doing her stalling routine though but the screaming/crying was much less.  The stalling is annoying but the asking for something in particular, getting it, then her pushing it away with a huff and saying "I no want ...." is maddening!  What is that all about?

I think that is the OT monster... kind of like my "I'm so tired I can't even tell you yes or no to a cup of coffee or not"  I know that with my 5yo when he gets really tired he simply doesn't know what he wants he simply knows he wants "something" he would be a perfect child on a 22hour day, because he has low sleep needs but average A time & that means he needs a catch up day nap or a 5pm bedtime about once a week to "catch up", but even as a baby the only way you knew he was even tired was when he got to the point of being "difficult" & by then he was OT.  With the OT monster, it is quite a good idea to the the WI/WO idea (but you in power), I still do the "I will be back to check on you once I've been to the toilet/folded the washing" every night, not to their call but quite simply because it is part of our routine... so on nights when they fall asleep quickly I say the next morning "Hey when I checked on you you were snoring... only joking, you were snuggled up"

[chars mum]

We have a serious OT monster on our hands for sure!    Yesterday was the 4th day in a row of no nap.  DH had her out all morning at the petting zoo then the park to make sure she was tired.  I made sure I had lots of time to spend getting her settled (spent nearly 2 hours trying to gently encourage her!) and I thought we were going to have success as she was all tucked in, quiet, heavy eyed, yawning...all set to drop off.  I then tried WI/WO with her but saying that I was just popping to the washroom, then to get a drink of water, and so forth.  Upon returning after 1 min, I caught her with her leg up over the rail of her crib!  I told her to get back in bed, which she did.   I got her settled again and then left for 2 min.  Upon returning I caught her AGAIN with her leg up over the rail!  So got her settled again and left for 3 min.  but when I returned she was sitting up in bed playing with her babies smiling at me...what a monkey!  All went downhill from there and ended up with a miserable, irritable little girl all afternoon.  She becomes almost intolerable at the afternoon wears on, crying, screaming, kicking, whining...  We HAVE to do something!   

At least I have been able to remain calm and reassuring both during the attempted nap time and at bedtime.  I realize that trying to force her to nap is definitely not the way to go, she has to want to.  Bedtime is getting better once we can get her calmed down enough and into her bed.  She still tries to stall but at least the crying and screaming is minimal now which is at least an improvement.  She continues to wake once at night and also is waking very early in the morning (today, 5:20am!!!).  We try to get her back to sleep in the morning but have not been successful yet.  Today I had DH go in and tell her it was still night night time and that mummy would come get her when it was time to get up.  He ended up going in twice to tell her that before she just played quietly in her crib.  I don't mind if she is awake as long as she staying in her room and is quiet so I can get that last 30-45 min before the baby wakes (I'm still up twice a night with him!).   

Should I try a very early bedtime tonight?  Won't she wake extra super early in the morning if I do?  I'm very tempted to put her in the car at around 4pm and go for a drive to see if she will nod off but then I don't want that to become a habit either.  Is it a bad idea?

[anna*]

Yes! Early bedtime! She might wake early but probably not as early as 5.20am - better that she sleeps 6pm-5.30am than 8pm to 5.30am!

[chars mum]

Just got off the phone with a friend who's DS was doing the exact same as my DD a few weeks ago (they're the same age).  She felt that it was more about a battle of wills than him not needing a nap anymore.  I think that's the case with us too as she is so obviously tired.

She found that the more she went back into his room, the less likely he was to nap.  Perhaps that is the case with us, maybe the more I keep going in and out the more stimulated she is and WI/WO is having the opposite effect that is should?  Any thoughts? 

She also cautioned against early bedtime as it will cause early morning waking.  No so sure I agree with her. 

Anyway, she ended up just being consistent in their routine and persisted and now her DS is back to napping daily again.  There is hope!

[chars mum]

Quick update: SHE NAPPED!!!  For 2 hours!!!  YAY!!!

[Katet]

Have you tried having a no nap "quiet time" where you just sit her say on your bed or a sofa with some quiet things like books & puzzles & a CD or even a DVD & telling her when a timer goes off that it is end of rest time.

Also when she was putting her leg over the crib that may be part of her wind-down, I know my DS2 would roll around heaps before falling asleep.

[chars mum]

We have had 2 (possibly 3) naps last 3 days!  First day DH put her down with NO problem    He doesn't put up with her nonsense and she knows it!  Yesterday it was a battle of wills again but I stuck to my guns and won...well we both won as she napped and was much happier in the afternoon for it    Today, well, I think she may have slept for 30-45min, hard to say though.  Either that or she was just VERY quiet.  She is not a quiet child and has loads of energy so sitting still is not her forte!  We did make the sticker reward chart yesterday together and she seems interested in that notion, especially when "special surprises" were mentioned   
The screaming/crying at bedtime has decreased lately too.  I think leaving the door open a crack has really helped as well as reminding her that mummy's bed is just across the hall. 
She' still waking early but nothing like 5:50am in a couple days   

[chars mum]

UGH!!!  DD woke at 5am!!!!   Screamed/cried for an hour, did not go back to sleep and is already completely miserble...and so am I