the beginning of the 2:1? very early! help!

[nursemeg01]

hi all,

My 8 mo DD is a very good independent sleeper. She is textbook/spirited and has a VERY narrow sleep window. She currently can handle an A time  of 3.5-4 hours and thankfully this results in her STTN and no NW/EW. woo hoo. So we've made lots of progress, however because of the long A time in the morning things are getting shifted down quite a bit. in addition, she'll take a longer AM nap which means the PM nap is LATE and often short. Part of me doesn't want to mess with it since she's 1) happy when she wakes, 2) not OT, 3) STTN and no EW/NW (for the first time in a while!). However I think this is the calm before the storm.

Here is her typical EASY:

E/A: 7-10:15
S: 10:15-12
E/A: 12-3:30
S: 3:30-4:15
E/A: 4:15-7:15 (includes another feed and BT routine)
S: 7:15 or 7:30ish

She's starting to not fall asleep until 10:30 for her AM nap and if I don't wake her she'll sleep for 1.5 -2 hours. I've been waking her at 1.5 hours. Today I tried putting her down at 10:15 today and this resulted in a 45 min UT nap. She's happy and playing and my plan is to put her down at 2 to see if I'll get a long nap.

So what is the best course of action here? Do I put her down when she is tired in the AM (to prevent the UT nap) or put her down early and get UT naps in order to have a good PM nap? I feel like if I put her down by cues I'm going to end up having her first nap close to 11!

I know I should limit her first nap to no longer than 1.5 hours and I am doing this, but I just don't know when to put her down...any help would be most appreciated.

thanks

Meg

[tarakay]

Meg-
My LO is about the same age as yours, and she likes a first A time of 3.25 hours which typically yields a 1h20m nap. I've been struggling w/a short 2nd nap too, so I pushed her second A time out to 3.5 hours today (vs 3.25) and she's been asleep for 1h15m right now. 

So... my advice would be to put her down in the am when she's tired enough to give you a good nap (but I would wake her up after 1.5 hours).  Then in the PM she might need a slightly longer A time to get a slightly longer (1-1.25 hour) nap.  I wouldn't stress TOO much about it b/c like you said she's happy and STTN!

HTH - Tara

[Jiinx]

Meg,

How are things going?

[nursemeg01]

She's at the sitters for 3 days so naps are usually wonky there anyway, BUT today I told her to wake her after 1.25 for her first nap and then extend the A time. She did this and my LO slept for her PM nap for 1.5 hours. That's progress. I guess I'll keep shortening the AM nap in the hopes of extending the PM one. I'll keep you all posted.

thanks!

[nursemeg01]

Ok...not really sure what the deal is. She seems to really be protesting these naps. For nap 1 yesterday she SCREAMED the minute I put her down. In the past I haven't been able to do PU/PD because it aggravates her reflux so I didn't try it. I did a little bit of PU/PD and it just wasn't working---so I put her in her crib and even though she was screaming I shushed her and told her "no no it's nap time" as I walked out of her room. It took her 2 minutes to settle and I ended up having to wake her after a 1.25 h nap. For nap 2, she screamed again the minute I put her in the crib (and I didn't do any PU/PD this time). I walked out of the room and she was quiet by the time I got down the stairs. I had to wake her up again after 1.5 h!

For BT---she went down without a peep---played with her lovey for 30 min and then fell asleep---no screaming. I pushed her A time before BT so she really should have gone right to bed, not playing. weird.

So due to the length of the naps, it seems to me that she still wants them! Is this protest crying? What should I do. Part of me feels like I'm doing a version of CIO but it's almost as if she needs to do this right now before falling asleep.  any ideas?

[Jiinx]

Hey Meg,
 Having gone through something similar a few weeks ago..I still wasn't sure what it was.
 My daughter is completely fine with being put in her crib and falling asleep on her own so when she suddenly started screaming, I thought she was OT. She still cried when I put her down. Then I thought it was teething, but tylenol really didn't make a different.

I -think- Meg, in my case, it was SA. She would pull the bumper pads down and just peek her head through the bars and kept watching the door. I would place her back down and she would go back to sleep as I shushed pat her. I think it lasted about two weeks. she's fine now. She's even teething.

Could she be teething, Meg?
Is it her routine - OT? UT?

[nursemeg01]

She may be teething--so hard to tell but she is def drooling and chewing like crazy (more than usual). I do think it's SA. Last night she screamed and I went in and gave her a long cuddle (picked her up) and then put her back down. She went to sleep without a peep. I have given her a lovey which she loves and for her AM nap she didn't fuss at all today. Weird.

She's been super fussy today with me leaving the room and I've been looking at some of the suggestions on the SA thread---so I am guessing that's what it is. If she settles quickly, is it ok to keep doing what I'm doing? Shush pat is so stimulating for her I'd like to avoid it if I can. Like I said though today was good so maybe this won't be too much of an issue. Thanks for the advice

[Canadian_Mom]

Just thought I would jump in to give my experience.  DS just did the exact same thing a couple of weeks ago.  Screaming for about 10 seconds when laying him down (usually I lay him down, walk out and he falls right asleep without a peep) but still having good naps, being extremely clingy during the day and crying if went out of his sight (usually could play by himself all day if I let him), and there were even a few NWs which we haven't really had since dropping the catnap.  Shh/pat doesn't work for us so I used WO/WI with some backrubing for the NWs to calm him down (he doesn't like the pat, but likes the backrub?).  For us the cause was teething and it lasted about a week, he is pretty much back to his old self now (thank goodness!).  He wasn't like this with his first teeth, so I think that some SA played into it.  HTH!

[Jiinx]

thanks for sharing BM!

Meg - I remember doing that at night too! I went into her room when she was crying/screaming..gave her a hug and put her back down and she went to sleep. It was so odd. I think mine and yours are just starting to get a bit of separation anxiety. They do get over it..I'm happy that I spent time with patting her and going into her room. It does pass and they go back to their independent selves

ugh. teeth. I've been blaming every feeding and sleeping related on those buggers

Lovely new pics of your angels, ladies

[nursemeg01]

Ok I am trying to figure out this new A time...she seems to want 3.5 hours now. The problem is that puts our first nap at around 10:30. I've been waking her at 1-1.25 hours and this puts her down for her 2nd nap around 3 or 3:30. I have to wake her again because if she sleeps past 4:30 she gets her nighttime sleep all off.

I'm just not sure what to do. When I looked at the sample EASY on the FAQ page most of the LOs are still taking their first naps around 9 or 9:30. If I try to do that I get a classic UT nap. Today I put her down at 10 and she coo'ed in her crib until 10:20 and then only slept for 50 min. What should I do?

Here is today.

E/A: 7-10
played in crib 10-10:20
S: 10:20-11:15
E/A: 11:15-2:45 (she's currently in her crib at 2:45 and kind of talking, trying to go to sleep.

so I guess my questions are:

1) should I move up the first nap somehow--and if so how do I do it?
2) or do I just keep extending my A times in the AM as she wants and eventually we will end up with 1 nap (kind of like the 3:2 transition?)

thanks

meg

[nursemeg01]

and I just got a 30 min nap (OT?) boo! what have I done wrong?

[empowered mama]

hi meg,

I wonder if you are somehow putting her down too early (or maybe too late) for that 2nd nap?  We are dealing with refusal of the 2nd nap right now, so I am shortening the first nap and working on getting that 2nd A time right to ensure a good nap #2.  What I've found though is if I put him down UT, he will play around so long that he ends up OT and we get a short nap.

I'm finding it really hard to tell when the right time is to get them down - (((big hugs)))

[Jiinx]

Hi meg,
 Just chiming in

 You could put her down UT for her first nap, which results in a short nap..the second A has to be short subsequently.

 However, I think she could use an increase in A time for that first nap. She's still quite some time away from one nap. They need to be doing 5 hours of A time for a 1 nap day. I think she's ready for 3.5 hours, which would result in a 1.5 nap. Or you could wake her at 1 hour and give her an A time of 3-3.5 hours. What do you think?

Do you want to do the short AM/long PM nap or long AM/short PM nap?

[nursemeg01]

I agree...thanks for sharing. The mistake I made today was not shortening the A time after the UT 1st nap. Does it matter which one you do short AM/long PM nap or long AM/short PM nap?

I think I'd like a longer PM nap right?

[Jiinx]

It depends on your baby, I think.



I've been doing long AM/short PM...just bc I don't like waking her up in the morning AND she gets really really tired in the morning quickly. I also do all her activities during the second A so I like it to be longer so I don't have to rush home for her nap. However, a long PM nap could be helpful in circumstances where they get really cranky by the end of the day on short amounts of sleep AND if they're EW in the morning and you suspect OT.