15 month old ... lost trust... OT loop

[marlowsmom]

Hello Ladies,
My DD2 Marlow is a 15.5 month old Angel/textbook/ touchy.    I'd like to say the Touchy cancels the Angel out today, but I digress.   We are in the midst of the 2-1 and I believe she has had a jump in A time (5.5hrs), but I'm not sure because most days she has 2 naps.   One nap days are rare.      

Usually she has a 20 or 30 min AM then a long PM.    Lately I got into the habit of a long AM because she seemed to need it.   I couldn't pinpoint the right amount of A afterwards thus she would refuse her PM nap and go to bed OT which would start the cycle over again.      I tried to give her a 30 min AM the day before yesterday and she refused the PM nap.    I had to fight her down and she slept an hour.    

Yesterday, due to scheduling conflict and a stay at MIL, I had to give her a one long nap.     Here was her 24 hours:
awake 5am
nap 11-1230
bed 7pm and it was a fight.
Last night was the worst because she had a NW from 230 to 415am.  
Awake at 730am this morning

The last two weeks she has developed a clingy side.    She wants me to hold her to fall asleep.    I've haven't had to hold her to fall asleep since she was an infant or sick.     She hasn't been sick and if she is teething she isn't showing any signs (finger chewing, complaining).   I don't think this is SA because I recently left her with my MIL and when I told her bye she followed me to the door but didn't cry.  

It feels like she has lost her trust in me.     How should I gain it back?  

Sleeping in her room isn't an option because I snore.    If I leave her to fuss (not full blown crying) she will hold out and go on and on.
  
Also, what do I do at this point with the increased A time?     I have an OT loop that I need to escape but once I do should  go to one nap?
          

[marlowsmom]

It's 2pm and she still won't go to sleep.   She's been up since 730am

[*Becky*]

ok -I would def go to one nap once she is caught up on sleep. To help her now I would do whatever you need to to get her some sleep so use your AP tactics. In my opinion she needs a wake up of at least 6am to manage a one nap day especially if she is just transitioning. I would do about 5-5.5 a time and then nap and then an early bedtime if you need to. keep us posted with wake up times and i can try to help you with naps etc as we go.
bx

[janecharlotte]

My DD is a couple of weeks older than yours and we have been through/going through something similar although we are on one sleep. I find she can do 5.5A in the am and slightly less in the pm.

She has been clingy too and the lovely ladies on here have helped guide me through some of the worst of it. We have been doing GW as WI/WO seems to make things worse. Maybe you could try that if things are still bad at bedtime.

Hope things sort themselves out soon. A lot of people I know with LO's at this age have been going through very similar situations.

[marlowsmom]

Henry1 thanks for the guidance.   I'm frazzled.     Her 2 hour NW and this sudden need to cling to me has totally thrown me off track.   

After I spent an hour trying to get her to sleep, my saint of a MIL came by with my DD1 and took over trying to get Marlow to sleep.   Her theory was that since she wasn't mommy that she would get her down.   It took her about 30 min to get her to sleep.     Marlow finally fell asleep at 2pm and woke at 330pm.     As I was posting how it was 2pm and she was not asleep, my MIL got her to sleep. 

JaneCharlotte- thanks for the support.   I've heard that for some LO, once they decide to go on one nap that its best to pick a solid naptime and bedtime and stick to it come hell or high water.     I'd like to see your posts on this topic.


Sorry that my response to you both is nonsensical.  I'm tired, extremely whiney, not thinking clearly and I have a extreme case of "poor me".   I've stressed myself out fretting over wheather she will sleep or not today.   

So tomorrow I work on knocking the first issue off my list: OT.   

[janecharlotte]

Hugs have been there many times over the last couple of weeks.

We have had a few no nap days in recent weeks and it can be very stressful.

We (I) have decided to go back to set nap/bedtimes. My DD has only been sleeping for 45mins during the day and I was trying to make sure she had early bedtimes etc but it seemed to make things worse for us. She has been on one sleep for a couple of months and it had been going really well but we had a few setbacks about 2 weeks ago and we are still working through it. Like you it feels like DD has lost her trust in me. She cries for naps and bed (hadn't done this for months) and I have had to start GW sleep training again. It seems to be going okay, I am standing by the door and she settles straight away as opposed to 30-45mins of crying with WI/WO.

Let us know how you get on. I would recommend getting her onto one sleep once the wake time in the am is reasonable- fighting naps and bed here is always UT- until it swings the other way...

[marlowsmom]

So should I let her have a long AM tomorrow or a short AM nap?    Part of me says let her have the long but I have such a time getting her down for the second nap.   If I give her the short AM like usual then I have trouble pinpointing the correct A before the second nap.   She's rubbing her eyes by 2.5 hours of A so I think that she is tired if not OT by that point.   I know she is OT by 3 hours of A so could 2 hours of A between naps be real?   It seems so short.

[*Becky*]

My advice would be to do a short am nap for sure....I would imagine that she could do more than 2 hours A time but maybe is she is OT at the moment that is the issue.

[*Jo*]

ok im gonna go against some advice here (eeek, dont hit me!!) I think a long AM nap and whatever catnap (APOPd) you can get out of her after about the same amount of A time or slightly less, is something to consider, because really she is OT and until she gets out of that you wont have any luck getting back to one nap. shes super clingy because shes super tired. I know when I was little when i was really tired all I wanted was my Mum because she was my comfort and I think thats where shes at with you, she gets to the point in her tiredness where she cant handle her own self and sees you as the one she needs.

I think once you have helped her catch up on her sleep then definately aim for one nap. oh and if you do decide to do the long AM and she doesnt catnap at all then shoot for an early bedtime, these are the thigns we did with Caleb whilst transitioning and getting through some OT spots. Once shes back to scratch and if shes still doing the holding you hostage situation then WI/WO is an amazing tool, we used it after 12 months old and it usually gets us back on track within a day!

[*Becky*]

different things work for different kids - we all give advice based on our own experience so you may want to give both a go. long am does not seem to have been working v well but if you are going to stick with it then like jo says you will need to do early early bedtimes x

[marlowsmom]

Last night she was in bed by 740pm.   She wanted me to hold her but I convinced her to lay down.   Once I got her to lay down I rubbed her head until she calmed and fell asleep by 8pm.    She fussed at 10pm, went back to sleep w/o getting up, and woke at 4am quietly babbling.   I reluctantly gave her a bottle, but I knew it was a sure fire way to get her back to sleep.    I rocked her until she fell asleep then back in the crib at 445am.    She woke at 7am.   

Fast forward to 9am.   She's playing and decides to lay down on the floor.   I get her up and take her upstairs but its too late.   Mind you she's rubbing her eyes and yawning as soon as we get upstairs.   TWO HOURS AND FIFTEEN MINUTES later she falls asleep.   She fought, squirmed, cried, kicked her legs, played with her fingers, and did everything that she could to not fall asleep.   But, oh, was she tired.    So now I'm thinking that she will probably sleep 1.5 hours, she will have lunch, then back to bed.   Clearly, after an OK nights sleep, 2 hour A was too much to handle.   *sigh*     

I'm proud that I didn't cry, or leave the room, or get angry.    I just kept thinking and saying "Mommy's not going to leave you."

[~Sarah~]

I reluctantly gave her a bottle, but I knew it was a sure fire way to get her back to sleep.    I rocked her until she fell asleep then back in the crib at 445am.

We just had to get Ryan out of a TERRIBLE OT loop and we ended up putting him to sleep every night between 5-630 and he would wake at some point and we gave him a bottle and changed his diaper in the dark and it finally got him out of the loop

He was always a better am napper, but I am finding that even though that is what he wants he does way better if I force the pm long nap

I have also found after getting out of the OT loop, he sometimes "acts" tired after 2-2.5 hrs, but he can go longer if you leave him a minute and then we make it to the pm nap.

We are still working it out, but this is what helped for us.  I feel like we are on the verge of having it straight.  He is napping 3 hrs now no matter what time he goes down-so that must mean something!

Good Luck

[marlowsmom]

I'm afraid of putting her to bed too early b/c she usually wakes early.    She has never slept a 12 hour night.    She finally fell asleep today at 11:15am so I'm letting her sleep as long as she wants.   

The other day I had to try to push her to 5 hour A in the am and she didn't fight me that much.    But that was just one day.

[~Sarah~]

Ryan never slept a 12 hour night and I was TERRIFIED to put him down before 6-but it really did work!!  We did have NW, and we just changed diaper and gave bottle of milk gave him all of his paci's (he sleeps with like 10 of them I swear) and he would go back to sleep.

I was able to get him to sleep a few 13-15 hour nights and that was the ONLY way I could get him out of the loop.  Honestly I think one day I put him in bed at 5-it was crazy but I was at my wits end with a 2-3 mo who has issues of her own!  When I finally buckled down and decided early BT no matter what it took about a week and a half to sort it out.  Now he is doing about 4-4.5 A time most days then sleeps for 3 hrs but will go to 5 hours if he sleeps past 7-730.  Most days he is waking around 615-630.  He is still getting kind of tired in pm so we have been keeping BT around 730 sometimes 8 if he is chipper.  The last 2 nights he was in bed talking to himself until after 8, so I am watching for OT to creep in, but so far so good.

I hate this switch more than I hate trying to get my newborn to nap right!!!

[marlowsmom]

I don't know how you do it.   I have a 4 yr old too but she is self sufficient now.   I just told her to go lay down for a nap and sent her upstairs.    Of course she is trying to be good so she can go see Toy Story 3 this weekend but the little bribe has worked for us all week.

DD1 was a pacifier kid and I also put a handful of pacifiers in her bed every night.    She was a much better sleeper IMO, because of the pacifier.     Marlow won't take a pacifier.   

Marlow slept the predicted 1.5 hours waking at 1245pm.     She's in good spirts and ate a good lunch.   

Im guessing I try for a nap at about 3:30pm?