Time for 1 nap a day for 8 month old ?????

[2greatboys]

DS2 will be 8 months old in 2 days.  In the past few weeks I've had a terrible time putting him down for his afternoon naps and he's been EW for several days now.  Yesterday morning he was difficult to go down for a morning nap.  He got his lower two teeth at 5.5 months, milestone that threw off the routine, then started crawling at 7 months, another milestone that threw off the routine.  Not to mention twice he has been ill for a week or so each time, which also threw off his routine each time.  I feel like I've been battling routine/sleep adjustments for the past 3 months.  After reading the 2-1 nap transition, I feel he is showing 2 of the 3 signs that he's ready for 1 nap a day, #1 and #3.  Is this possible ??  He can do A in the morning for 3-3.5hrs.  Would normally take 1.5-2 hr. nap, A for 3hrs. then another nap.  He sleeps for 30 mins. but then I have to go in and help him settle again for another 1hr. nap.  He's been on a 4 hr. EASY since he was about 4.5 months old.  At the moment he's trying to stand, which I know can throw things off too.  He is EW at 5:15 or 5:30 when he use to sleep til 6 or 6:30.  I try to have him in bed and asleep by 7:30, but it seems he doesn't fall asleep til about 8 or so.  At the moment it seems to be taking him 30-40 mins to fall asleep.  I'm reluctant to aim for a 8pm bedtime in fear that it will take 30-40 mins for him to fall asleep and end up with an 8:30 bedtime.  Is it possible he is ready for 1 nap a day already ?  I recall DS1 moving to 1 nap a day around 14-16 months.  Thanks in advance for any advice.

[Tweakster]

Hi there, nope don't think he's ready for 1 nap just yet.  He MAY be ready to reduce a nap length, but that would be quite early really.  So he probably needs more A time somewhere.  Could you post the day for us in EAS format.  Taking so long to go down for naps is also a sign that he may just be UT.  That kind of resistance at bedtime at his age is normally OT from being in the UT/OT loop.

[2greatboys]

I'll do my best to recall today's EAS.  I'm a bit sleep deprieved....lol.  DS2 woke at 5AM  I attmpted to do PU/PD to get him to go back to sleep, it worked for about 15-20 mins. then he was awake again.  He was content in his crib til 6AM.

5AM Awake
E 7AM BF
   8AM solids, cherrios and 2 4oz containers of pureed food
A 5-AM-10AM
S 10AM-12PM
E  12:15PM BF
    12:30PM finger foods and 2 4oz containers of pureed food
A 12PM-3:40PM, 3PM had small snack of finger foods
S 3:40PM-4:20PM
E 4:30PM BF, snack at 5:30
A 4:20PM-8:10PM, dinner at 6:30PM, bath 7:15PM, BF 7:30
S 8:10PM

I did not want to keep him up today until 10AM, but that was when he started to show his sleepy signs.  He awoke happy from his morning nap.  We ran a few errands after lunch and while out running errands he started to rub his eyes after being A for almost 3 hours, so I rushed home, gave him a snack and tried to put him down for a nap.  He went down fairly easy, but awoke after 30 mins.  He's been waking in the afternoon 30-40 mins after I put him down for several weeks.  I have to go up and do PU/PD to get him to go back down.  He'll go back to sleep for usually an hour or so.  Today however, he only went back to sleep for 15-20 mins.  After reading your remarks, I'm thinking that if he wakes at a normal time, 6-6:30AM, I should aim for a morning nap of 10AM, which means an A of 4 hours.  He was handling an afternoon A of 3 hours pretty well and doing an afternoon nap of roughly 1.5 hours.  I was having him in bed asleep by 7:30 PM, but now I'm thinking a bedtime of 7:45PM is in order ??  I thought LO's could stay A longer as the day progressed, but it seems DS2 needs a longer A in the morning, nap, then a shorter A before an afternoon nap ??

Thank you for your help !!  I feel like I only have half of his routine figured out.  DS1 was a bit easier...lol. 

[2greatboys]

I've shortened the morning nap to 1.5 hrs. and I am still struggling with the afternoon nap.  He's waking after 30 mins. still and I have to go in and help him settle and now instead of sleeping for another hour or so he's waking after 10 mins. screaming and not going back to sleep when I go to settle him again.  He's falling apart at dinner and during his bath.  He's been horrible to get dressed after his bath, rolling all over and screaming.  The last two evenings have been miserble after 5PM.  However, I've gotten him to go to bed at 7:45 and he has slept soundly all night, woke once to nurse, but has been EW at 5:15AM.  I don't know what to do.  I've gone on very little sleep the past 3 months and it's taking quite a toll on me.   What else can I do ??  I'm desperate ! 

[Tweakster]

HI there, are you still doing 4 hours A time in the morning?  He's probably using up stamina and needs a shorter middle A like you said.  Finn was like this.  4 hrs is a lot for an 8 mth old so I would expect his middle A to be a lot shorter.  Could you drop his morning A back a bit?  Even 3.25-3.5 hours is plenty for his age.  As the day goes on, a lot of LO's need a shorter A time rather than a longer one.  You want to avoid having a too long A to bedtime and a too long day - you are aiming for no more than a 13 hour day really.

He sounds OT - you'll need an earlier bedtime.

Could you try something like:
Awake 6
Nap 1.5 hrs @ 9:30 - 11
Nap 1.5 hrs @ 2 - 3:30
Bedtime asleep by 7 (if he does a short PM nap you will have to put him to bed earlier)

Hugs, it's really hard when they are not clear about their A times...my son never was and we eventually moved to set naps to help him along.  Hopefully a few tweaks will get your boy on track!  It's also hard when your second isn't like your first...they are totally different animals so to speak :-)

[2greatboys]

I usually only do 3hrs. A in the morning.  The EAS I posted earlier was not a typical day for us, it just happened to be the EAS for the day before.  So I should aim for a mid-day A of roughly 2.5 hours ?  Today when I put him down he had been A for 3 hours and showed no signs at all of being sleepy.  He went down very easy, slept for 30 mins, woke, I had to go help him settle, slept for 10 mins, woke, had to help settle, slept for 3 mins.  Then it was time to BF, he barely nursed at all.  I would like to have set naps for DS2, I had them for DS1 and my days were SOOO much easier; I could plan things.  At this rate I feel almost trapped at home because if he falls asleep in the car he always wakes up before I can get him to his room.

I've developed a tremendous amount of anxiety over DS2 afternoon sleep schedule, or lack there of.  DH is rarely home and if he is, it's well past the time the kids have to go to bed.  I feel my 3 yr. old is suffering from the lack of attention, which is also causing a great deal of anxiety for me.  DS1 has swim lessons two nights a week, which means we do not get home til 6:15.  I will do my best to have DS2 in bed and asleep by 7.  He use to go to bed at 7, but it gradually ended up being 7:15 or 7:30 before he fell asleep, guess due to the OT.

Thank you so much for your advice, and for listening .  I feel I have a more complete plan to try now.

[2greatboys]

Things are worse !  DS2 suddenly started sleeping until 7 or 7:30, even 7:45 one morning.  However, he was sleeping past 1.5 hrs. for his morning naps and I was waking him.  He has still never taken a 1.5 hrs. afternoon nap.  His afternoon naps have gone from 40 mins. to 25 mins. and I can not re-setttle him now.  He went to sleep last night at 7:45 becuase we were out and something unavoidable delayed us, he then slept til 6:10 this morning.  He was A for 3.5 hrs. this morning, 1 hr. 20min. nap, A 2hrs. 15 mins., was rubbing eyes and yawning so I knew he was ready for a nap.  But he only slept for 25 mins.  Even if he's A for 3-3.5 hrs. in the afternoon I'm still only getting a 30 mins. afternoon nap.  I've been playing with his afternoon A times to try to figure out if he's OT or UT.  No matter what I do all I get is a 30 mins. nap, or something around that time.  Any thoughts of where to go from here

[Tweakster]

Hmm we need some additional eyes here.  I am sorry that it's all gone wrong again!  If he's getting a longer night and a longer AM nap, then it may be why he's giving you a short PM nap.  My gut feel is UT there but you know him best.

[2greatboys]

I was thinking UT too, that's why I started to think he only needed 1 nap a day, but also thought it was too early.  I'm ok with a afternoon CN if that will give him enough rest til bedtime.  He's started rubbing his eyes in the afternoon and within 10 mins. I have him down and he's been going down super easy and not fighting, so he is tired.  I spoke to a friend who's daughter had a similar sleep pattern.  She took a long morning nap, like 3hrs. and a 45 mins. afternoon nap, and slept 11-12hrs. at night.  I just can't get a solid routine.  I hope someone can help.  His EW are waking DS1, who is in a room next door.  I'm just tempted to let him sleep as long as he wants for a morning nap.  Since that is the one where he gets the most rest, even if it's past 2 hrs. I'm just going to let him sleep and see what I get for the rest of the day and the next few days.  Maybe he is just a baby with a really odd sleep pattern ?  He's self feeding extremely well so if he goes an hour or so past his BF time I suppose it won't hurt.  I could probably get away with a 5 hour EAS with him.  If he were a bottle fed baby he would be getting 3 8oz bottles a day, and he's BF well 4-5 times a day.  I'm almost ready to throw in the towel this !

[Tweakster]

HI there, you can try the long AM/short PM route, it has worked for others.  Certainly babies don't all follow the rules as far as sleep patterns go, my son was a question mark for many many months.  I only feel confident about his sleep now at 16 mths and even then it's never consistent.  At 8 mths it's less about the EAS pattern and more about what works for your LO. 

How has it been going?

[2greatboys]

Thanks for asking .  Things are still inconsistent.  Some mornings he takes a long AM nap, 2.25 hrs., other mornings it's only 1.5 hours.  I still can not get him passed a 30-40 mins. afternoon nap, no matter how long or short his AM nap is.  I've been putting him to bed by 7:30 or earlier, however, some nights he does not fall asleep til 8 and has been waking between 6 & 7.  Each day is a bit different.  It's hard when DS1 has swim lessons at 5:30 twice a week.  We don't get home til almost 6:30, rush through dinner, and then off to bed.  Swim lessons end in a month.  DS2 has been eating solids great however.  He's refusing anything on a spoon except yogurt or pudding and loves to self feed.  He's still nursing 5X a day.  He's also cruising furniture.  I've come to accept that I'm going to have a semi-cranky infant in the afternoons with unpredictable days.

[2greatboys]

The last three days he has only napped 1 hour 30 mins. in the morning and this morning he only napped 1 hour 15 mins.  The last 3 days he has only napped 40 mins. in the afternoon.  He's falling apart by 4:30 or 5, I can't put him down so making dinner is extremely difficult.  Dinner time is awful.  I do not enjoy my afternoons because he is so cranky.  Having a 3 yr. old who also needs my attention makes things that much worse.  I feel like I have no time quality time with DS1 alone, it's always rushed or shared with his brother.  I feel like I'm always riddled with anxeity because DS2 doesn't sleep well and I anticipate horrible afternoons and dinner times.  DH is hardly ever home, and if he is it's after I've put the kids to bed.  I have absolutely no help and never get a break.  I will shamfully admit I do not appreciate my kids becasue I am never away from them to do so.  With DS1 having swim lessons at 5:30 twice a week, we do not get home til 6:30 and do not eat dinner til 6:45 if we're lucky, so getting DS2 in bed before 7:30 is hard to do.  The nights DS1 does not have swim lessons I try to get have DS2 in bed by 7, but nothing seems to help.  I can't take the screaming cranky infant much longer.  I'm ready to just let him cry when he wakes up from a short nap until he crys himself back to sleep.  Maybe he will be able to make it through dinner again with out sreaming.  I just don't know how it ALL went wrong.

[Tweakster]

Hi there, ok what if we try a different tactic and don't let him take his long AM nap, I think it seems like he's getting too rested there and not giving a proper PM nap.  Maybe try waking him at 1 hr and then putting him down for the afternoon nap earlier...  Do you think he's getting overstimulated from his brother?  That can have an effect.  Not that there is really much you can do but maybe you can extend a wind down or something for him to ease him into sleep mode.

I know it all seems so horribly wrong at the moment but we can figure this out :-)  Please don't let him cry alone, it will break all the trust you have worked hard to build here.  And it may in fact make things worse.  CIO is not a one shot deal, any sleep hurdles and you have to do it again and again and again. 

How many hours is he doing at night now and what time is he waking?  Let's see if we can build a routine from that.  Is the 3 year old still napping?  I'm going to try to call in the troops.

[2greatboys]

He woke at 6AM this morning, he usually wakes around 6 or 6:15, but he's been all over the place with his awake times too.  This time last week he woke at 7:45 three mornings in a row !  When he woke today after a 1 hr. 15 mins. nap he was still tired.  He looked awful, rubbing his eyes, fussy, and yawning.  I put him down today after being A for 2.5 hrs. and still only got a 40 mins. nap.  In the past I have tried putting him down anywhere from 2 hrs. A to 4 hrs. A and still only got a 30 mins. nap.

When he is A he does play with his brother and his toys.  Usually before his morning nap they play independently from each other.  I usually play with DS2 doing quiet things so he is not over stimulated


Last night he slpet form 7:15 til 10:45.  I changed and nursed him.  He went back to sleep right away and woke again at 2:20.  I sent DH in to resettle him.  If I had gone in he would have wanted to nurse and I know he is not hungry 3 hrs later.  He was A for about 30 mins.  Back to sleep for 45 mins., A for 15 mins. then A for the day at 6AM.

My 3 yr. old gave up naps 3 weeks before I had DS2.  He rarely naps anymore.  I might get lucky and 1-2 days a month he may take a nap.  DS1 will doze off in the car, but that's about it.  I am at my wits end.  I am not able to hold it together anymore.  After DS2 falls apart, it's not long after before I do and that's not fair to DS1.  Thank you.

[Tweakster]

Ok, another quick question while I am pondering this, what would your ideal routine look like?  Include wake time, naps & bedtime.