Terrible Mealtimes!

[Yazzie]

So, here we go with our first "eating for toddlers" post ..We're having quite a few difficulties on the feeding end with ds, I'm actually coming to tread mealtimes

So, ds is 12.5 months old, bf-ed with 3~4 feeds per day, depending on the days that I work from home and the days that I don't, I plan to keep this till he start day care in October, which is when we'll be officially dropping to 3 feeds, I think  ...you have several issues, which go like this:

- DS usually open up his mouth for the first spoon or two and after that, meal time is quite a show and a real struggle to get him   open his mouth  ...I've tried giving him a spoon, which sometimes gives me space to feed him, and of course we still have a long way to go before he can self feed.
- Usually, @ some point he'd stop swallowing, so do I just call the meal off, even if he's had very little?
- He's eat better if he's on the floor playing and me running behind him, however, I think this would eventually lead to lousy table manner and more problems, so what do you do?

I'm also at opposite views about meal times, with dh, who thinks that ds doesn't know very well and may be too occupied with playing that he doesn't realize his hunger, so we should make sure he has his whole meal, even if it takes over an hr!..on the other hand I believe that the kid won't starve himself and that we should evaluate the entire day and if he doesn't open his mouth for a meal that's it, if he doesn't swallow meal time is over. Also, if ds doesn't like what's served I'd give alternatives, dh thinks that if we go down that route, ds might as well eventually live on fries if we just follow what he wants, rather than what's right, kwim!

So, how do you guys handle such situations?

[deb]

I'm of two minds with a lot of that, the sitting for a full meal and the choice of food. We have friends with kids, one of whom has severe food allergies and the other whose reflux has never gone away on top of being picky eaters, and the kids have a grand total of about 3 or 4 things they will eat. EVER. The parents have to bring food with them EVERYWHERE that their kids will be eating - but since they have to do it for one b/c of the allergies anyway, it's not that big a deal for them to make spares and bring two of everything. The younger one also gets up from meals - a LOT - and has to be constantly reminded to sit down and to keep eating. (If he doesn't eat enough, the reflux is worsened.)

That said, as a child there were foods I simply could not abide, and as an adult I still can't. Can't do brussels sprouts, can't do lima beans (they literally make me gag and puke), I like broccoli and cabbage but can't digest them worth a darn. Having them served to me resulted in lots of digestive upset and lots of food battles, none of which I lost, incidentally. And now as an adult, I just don't MAKE lima beans, although Josie actually LIKES the things. ??? But - neither girl can eat asparagus, which DH and I LOVE, so sometimes we just bite the bullet and offer multiple veggies and meats. DH can't tolerate chicken while the girls and I love the stuff, so it's not at all unusual for us to make a wide selection - not separate meals, but a wide selection so everyone can find enough of things they'll eat to get a balanced meal.

There are foods that the girls were reluctant to try at first, so I had to sneak them into other foods for a while; once I revealed the switch they'd realize it wasn't so bad. LOL

We've also found that when the girls have had a LOT of physical exercise, above and beyond the norm, they're usually starving and will INHALE whatever's been put in front of them. I don't go for eating anywhere but the table, but that's as much to avoid having to clean up messes all over the house as it is a matter of having meals "centralized" to get them into the table habit. If you can give him a small toddler-sized table and chair, might he eat at that? He's not going to have the attention span to eat for an hour, so smaller shorter more frequent meals aren't unreasonable. We've always been 'grazers" here, with snacks between meals to keep up our blood sugar; even chips and dip (ranch dressing and guacamole are good ones) help keep up the metabolism, give more frequent opportunities to practice table conventions, and provide chances to practice the small-motor coordination needed to get food from the table to his mouth. And when he's getting the hang of spoons, stuff like a small dish of yogurt or cottage cheese or coup can help him practice that as well.

I'd also be offering him LOTS of finger foods to help him work on his finger coordination. Pasta pieces (rotini is great for this!), small crackers, grapes cut into quarters or other fruit cut into bite-sized chunks, diced meats, stuff like that. But keeping the mealtimes positive is more likely to help get past the battles than turning it into a battle of wills, at least in my experience with my two. 

[koe2moe]

Hey Yazzie.  Big hugs for you.  I think I will share how I view mealtimes with you.  I insist DS eat at the table, once he stops eating/starts playing, i will offer two more times and when he's still throwing, etc. I clean him and put him down.  If he ate well at meal times and just got bored and tried pulling his bib, i would clean him and put him down and when he wants to come back to have some more bites while DH and I are still eating, that's ok.  Now he gets bored easier at 18mo and I let him take a break inbetween meals especially when he's impatient.  He could go off to play a short time and then come back when he's ready.

I totally agree with you that LO's won't starve themselves.  I just wonder what his eating in the whole day is like.  And I found that milk intake does affect appetite.  Though DS is a great eater, sometimes he would hold out for milk when he knows that he will be getting milk. 

I personally cannot accept running around kids to feed them as it's almost a norm in my culture.  Setting up the environment to eat and if he's going hungry for a few meals, that won't hurt him but to educate him what to expect.  When he knows you will let him play and chase him to give him food, why would he eat at the table?? 

DS also asks to be put into his high chair when he sees us eating.  He wants to try some, too.  (I normally feed him his food first before we sit down to have dinner and he gets also some food or his fruit).  I don't even need to ask him, he goes to the chair and wants to climb and looks at us. 

It will take you some time but i think u can do it!!  Just be consistent and also discuss with DH to have some consensus.  Good luck and hugssss

[teilvnav]

In our house, meal time is meal time. DS is in the high chair without toys, and he eats until he is done. If he doesn't like what I offer him, I will offer him some toast or something that I know he will like.

Your DH means well, and has a good point about spoiling him... for next year! For now, just feed the little guy. Next year, you can start saying, "This is what's for dinner. Eat it or don't, but that is what's for dinner." Right now A is too young to be deliberately manipulating you guys into giving him yummier (or unhealthier) foods.

Nathan stopped letting me spoon feed him weeks ago (actually, at about 12.5 months!). We do all finger foods now, and I can sometimes sneak in a mouthful of something like quinoa off my plate if he has lots of his own finger foods to occupy him. He will let me spoon feed him yogurt as long as he also has a spoon of his own. No soup or stew, though.

As a mom, we want to feed feed feed our babies! It is a natural instinct, I think. But Adam is learning that he has control over his own body, and might be refusing food just because he is learning that he can. Or, maybe he just has a small apetite and he really is full with little food. I would try to make meals less of a big deal, and less of a power struggle. Just sit together and relax, talk to your DH and your DS, and let him eat as much as he wants (or as little) to feed himself. He will make a big mess with finger foods, especially at first, but he will get better at it. And you will all be happier in the long run.

[Yazzie]

I just love you ladies so very very much 

Thanks for the great advice and the reassurance ..so, over the past day or so I've been really analyzing things and have reached several conclusions. DS hates the spoon, best case scenario would be him self feeding or me feeing him with my hand!...so Monday night we had a great dinner, gnocchi, veggies and chicken pieces, he self fed, as well as accepting some pieces from me, and eventually feeding me and dh as well..lol

Yesterday, morning, I made him an omelette, which probably was a mistake, as he usually doesn't like it very much and would only have a few pieces when either of us is eating, I gave him a small croissant with honey, he ate a few pieces, but the mood was already off, kwim..!..for lunch I followed the same approach as that I did with the previous night's dinner, he had a tuna bake, which was ok, he ate, but was bored, so I let him have sips of water in between bites and play with the plate, as well as feed me and kept offering till he pushed my hand and that was my sign, a while later I put him in the highchair again and offered grapes, which he self fed, again till he pushed my hand, for a last snack, I gave him a piece of cheese and toast with butter, but while playing  ...we were out for dinner, so he had yogurt, cheese and mangoes,all which were ok.

So, I think the idea of accepting that he really can't stay put for long, should change how I handle meal times, I do try to let him have all meals in the high chair, do you guys do all meals, or only main meals and snacks while playing?..I guess my problem here is that MIL watches ds when I'm @ work and she isn't a big fan of the high chair!

Of course I continue to have an issue with dh, who always slips into power struggles with ds, don't even want to know what they'll do when their older and I think that ds now knows that dh doesn't take NO for an answer, and if he doesn't want to eat anymore, he'd open his mouth (if dh is feeding him) and just not swallow ....so like this morning, dh fed him bf, which was yogurt, kiwi and a biscuit , the first two went great, but by the time dh gave him a piece of biscuit, ds, I think was already full, but still opened his mouth, but didn't swallow!..I tried to explain to dh that he could have been already full, but knowing how dh is, he opened still opened his mouth...dh didn't buy it and said, u can't go from hungry to full in a minute and ds should have @ least swallowed the biscuit ...how do you explain this?

& on another note, seriously, what's with me?!!

[koe2moe]

oh Yazzie... big hugs for you and great on the progress.    Can you perhaps prepare meals with smaller size?  So that DH doesn't get the opportunities to force him to eat?  When Adam is still hungry, he will reach out for more, then DH can go get something more?  (Don't tell him this.. just prepare smaller meals to let DH see the difference?)  I know it's hard to convince someone who's so fixated with their own ideas.  It's not worth getting into an agreement every time as it would create stress for you all and DS will sense it.

I personally insist on all eating at the table.  Like i said earlier, perhaps things like crackers, rice cakes (which don't make mess and isn't sticky ), i might let him walk around with it.  If he takes a bite from our food, and he wants to reach out to hold it (again, it's just me hating mess and not wanting to get up to clean his hands afterwards) I tell DS while pulling it slightly out of his reach that "mommy gives" then he just opens his mouth  

Also things that I notice, when DS is VERY hungry, he tends to be all over the place and refusing to eat even.  But once I managed to slip some food in his mouth (while he's crying), he tastes it, then he just calms down hehe  For us, if i let him start with finger food, then he won't take anything from my spoon.  But then Adam refuses the spoon altogether, it's different. 

Regarding the omelette, yeah perhaps best to stick with foods he is more likely to eat at this stage to train him for the manners you would like to establish.  Once he's enjoying it more, you can explore more. 

It's super difficult when you can't be there all the time.  more hugssss!

[deb]

How can a baby with a stomach the size of his tiny little fist be full in a minute? Ummm...... because he has an itty-bitty stomach? Koe2more has a great suggestion about smaller meals - there's a REASON that baby/toddler fishes are so much smaller than adult ones! LOL

At this age, it's not about big structured meals yet. Way back once upon a time (and still in countries where nursing is the norm), he might still be on a lot more breast milk and a lot less solids. He might also have the kind of metabolism that makes him a grazer, at least for the time being - I know in our house we're all grazers: we just kind of forage for food every couple of hours, but unless we've been extremely physically active that day, like a day at the beach or hiking or biking, we're not generally ravenous unless it's been more than 4 hours since the last food intake.

[koe2moe]

How can a baby with a stomach the size of his tiny little fist be full in a minute?

high 5, Deb. i wanted to mention this, too but then... it's a waste of breath to argue, though    but what i want to mention also is that... strangely enough, my boy sometimes eats one jar of baby food, 2 adult size bananas and then 30 mins later down another bottle of 8oz/200ml milk before sleeping!!!  And still woke up for milk!!!  I was hesitant to give him food even though all the signs were there   I was just worried that his little tummy would get upset or tummyache.. or throw up!!  

It's also true that stomach is stretchable.  When we force LOs to eat more, then we are stretching the size of their stomaches, more chance of getting overweight kids/adults!! 

[Yazzie]

I am definitely trying to down size for meals that dh and mil give ds, they just never pay attention to little Adam's cues ..I usually try to leave them varieties, but always end up trying to feed the little guy the whole lot!\

It's super difficult when you can't be there all the time.

Very, very much

I also agree abt the small tummy, and totally experienced it with lunch and his PM snack yesterday afternoon, he did eat, but @ his own pace & with no fights !

It's also true that stomach is stretchable.  When we force LOs to eat more, then we are stretching the size of their stomaches, more chance of getting overweight kids/adults!!

Now, there's another argument;)

Fingers cross today's lunch goes well, today when I called after ds's nap, MIL wanted to try & give ds the rest of his AM snacks before lunch, tried and tried to explain that she's go right to lunch, let's hope she listens!

[koe2moe]

Yazzie!!  more hugssss..  as you must be worried day and night about eating, etc.  At least they didn't lie to you! hehe  Is your culture or your MIL and DH's culture about not wasting food?  I and DH were also raised not to waste food.  Whenever there is food, I just can't stop until I am bursting.  I guess smaller portion is definitely the way to go. 

good luck!!  

[Yazzie]

MIL & DH's culture really, I don't like wasted food either, but it can be eaten later!!

Thanks for the good luck wishes though

[teilvnav]

Good luck, Yazzie! It is so hard when your childminder has different approaches than you do.

[Yazzie]

So, am back, but with a different question, it sometimes takes ds quite a while to swallow foods, is it usual that they may get distracted and forget to swallow?

[deb]

A distracted toddler? Isn't that redundant?

Sorry, the coffee is working now.... yes, it's totally normal.

[koe2moe]

lol... sometimes DS needs to see the next piece of food to remember to swallow!!  i find it really cute and funny that DS always clears his mouth before taking a drink of water LOL.. He would sign/voice very urgently for water and then can't take a sip yet because his mouth was still full!!

I do know of one kid who just wouldn't swallow.  Take one bite of food and can hold it deliberately in her mouth for the whole day sometimes! She has been a terrible eater and super skinny!!  She's now probably 20 but i haven't seen her the last 10 years.