Support Thread for 2-1 Nap Transition cont'd pt 3

[spodnic]

Lulu, I feel for you as 4-anything is too damn early. My heart sinks if I hear her and that's what the clock says.

I'm just wondering if your first A time at 3 hrs is too short and the first nap is robbing from the night sleep IYSWIM? I could well be wrong. Certainly with my LO, she does a lot of yawns in her first A time, I have to ignore them til 4.5hrs+, they are false tired indicators for her at least.

Yes my trumpet works! Most of the time anyway.

[*Ali*]

Mama2c - if your DS can do 4.5hr A time and a 3hr nap that sounds to me like you could do a perfect 12hr day with a 4.5hr A time after the nap, no? That was our routine when we moved to 1 nap. Your DS would hopefully extend his night to 12hrs for a while to catch up. So could you do:
06.00 WU
10.30-13.30 Nap (3hrs)
18.00 BT
?
Then if your DS wakes up early the next morning you can do a 2 nap day to get back to a later BT. It is really common to do a mixture of 1 and 2 nap days when first transitioning.

[Mama2C]

Cadie's Mum - I would love if he could do a 3 hr nap...definitely worth trying for.
What happened today - WU 6:40, nap 12-2:30, BT at 7:20. He can suddenly do these long A times which is awesome. He was a much happier little boy today than other days when I do shorter A times...we shall see how the night goes though....kind of scared he'll do a 10 or 10.5hr night which is what he normally does...that would be kind of early! Oh well. We shall see!!!

Lulu - I have to echo what spodnic says about the short A time...3 hrs seems pretty short!! Can you try for 4hrs or more? I was really nervous about stretching it and up to 2 weeks ago we did a 3hr morning Atime but it just wasn't long enough for him!!! Now he is suddenly doing 5+hrs!! Obviously he was ready a long time ago and I never realized it...

[lulunut]

On the verge of tears this morning!  4:30!!! I got a bottle and fed him. He quickly went BTS.  PD, he just didn't stay. He was sleeping, just rustling around every few minutes. One cry and a leg stretch. 2 min later another wine and he is standing! I pick him up, he flops into my arms and off to sleep again.  I hold him for a bit and PD.  He is asleep, then starts to rustle, eye rub and he is standing again!

In the past, I have held him and he sleeps.  He is getting too long and I want to kick this AP.

I have got him up at 5am and done 5 hours before with 2 nap day. Yesterday was the first time in a long time that I let him lead his am nap time.  The pm nap is sometimes an issue and I will often get 2 short naps out of it. BT if I do 6pm or 8pm, I still get a 5am wake!!! He is stuck in this loop. 3 days a week he is at grannies and the car rides mess up his naps.

Maybe, it will take longer for him to adjust and I just can't mentally keep up.  5am to 9pm with 2 kids is hard to do for me.  Maybe I can't stick to things.  Maybe Grannie's house is messing things up, I just don't know.  I can't figure things out.

My only hope at this point is time.  One day he will get to one nap for more than an hour and maybe one day he will sleep until 6/7am on a regular basis.

SIGH!

[*Ali*]

Lulunut, after that early morning feed could you just do pupd (well more just pd at this age) until he stays down eventually and (hopefully) goes back to sleep in the cot? It will take a while the first couple times but would be worth it if it means he goes down more easily in the future I think. Sounds like he is getting disturbed or is just not comfortable enough to stay asleep in your arms anymore.
If he gets up at 5am with a 6pm BT or an 8pm BT I would opt for the 6pm every day just so it means he has more sleep and will be more rested the next day. Plus you get more of the evening off from him even if you have DD up later.
{{Hugs}}
Ali

[Mama2C]

Lulu - Kean was up this morning at 4:30 too after our one nap day yesterday. We did PD, back rub and WI/WO and after about 45 mins he fell asleep. It wasn't too intense surprisingly but very annoying! He slept until 6:45 and today we are doing 2 naps and I think I'll stick to 1.5hr am nap and 30 min pm nap for a few days...I guess 5.5hr A times are too much and we'll have to stick to 4.5hr As for now...

Sigh!

[lulunut]

Cadie's Mum-I feel like one of those annoying people that you give advice to and you just want to give up on!  I have tried PU/PD at 5am.  I didn't do it past three days though just because it wasn't working and I was just too tired.  This maybe part of the problem!!!  When I did this he just continued to cry/scream when I PD.  By this point EVERYONE is up and I only have until 6am to work on it because DH has to get ready for work and DD goes to school.  He has gone that far with PD and fighting me or he just gives up and starts to play in his crib, handing toys to me and pointing to things.

DH says just bring into bed with us, at least we all sleep and he gets 1 nap in.  I just don't want to have to deal with getting him out of our bed later but it may be the lesser of two evils!!!  Sometimes you just have to do what gets you the most sleep!!!  I don't know!?

Thanks for the hugs!

Mama2C- this transition is a tough stage!  I am right here with you!  HUGS for you!

[Mama2C]

Lulu - just remember that while it might be the lesser of two evils, breaking him of the habit of your bed could be really difficult...that said, maybe your LO can handle it? My DD was addicted to sleeping in our bed so I could never do it...whereas DS can handle it once in a while (although these days he refuses to come to our bed, go figure!!).

You definitely need to get your sleep and for a night here and there going to your bed, it might work...or it might lead to waaaaay too many problems...

If you are that desperate for sleep (and you sound like it!!!! Gosh I would be!), can you put a mattress with blankets on the floor of his room and if he wakes up you can sleep there with him? That way you can more easily break the habit - mattress is gone so no more option of it..

[lulunut]

Mama2c-that is funny that DS refuses to come to your bed.  I assume it was hard to kick DD of the habit?  Is she still sometimes wanting to come in?

I used the mattress before when I first had him, (he was colic, we did a lot of sleeping on a breast pillow then co-sleeping this maybe part of his need for me!) and when I finally got him into a crib and STTN I took it out!  Now I may have to bring it back in.  But I do agree that it maybe easier to have it in his room than our bed.  I shall get DH to put it back in the room!

I am finding that since I have not been AP him this week he has been more difficult to PD for all sleeps and more NW this week.  Not sure if these are related or not?

Today was 5am wake/5A/40 min am nap/3.75A/40 min pm nap/4A time/BT at 7:30pm all naps in car with transition to bed at arrival.

[ccaawc]

lulu- Do u think the 5 o'clock wake up is an EASY issue? or Prop issue or habitual waking?

I have been posting on the EASY forum for months having mysterious NW and tweaking my EASY then someone told me if there is a prop problem, it doesn't matter how great yr EASY is. STTN only happens when i got rid of the props and sleep trained my lo. Then I got rid of EW by pushing BT later.

For pu/pd to work, consistency is key, but it only works if yr lo wants to sleep more, that is, if at 5am he has all the sleep he wants or nearly all the sleep he wants, he probably won't go BTS unless u AP ( and AP all the way until he gets up). So if yr lo usually does 12 hrs nite and at 5am, he has only 10hrs, then u have a greater chance of getting him back to sleep with pd, but if he only does 10hrs nite and it is already a 9.5hrs nite at 5, then pd may not work.

It is also worth charting how much sleep yr lo does, cos if he has long long naps, his nite could be short but it still adds up to a good amount of sleep.

Mayb u can AP him for a few days, get as much rest as u can and also note how much he sleeps, then start the sleep training at the weekend so DD's school is not in the way and get rid of the AP with pd in one go?( it took me 3 intensive days, and nite, then things settle down in a week)

And oh, I have to thank you for yr support ( and all the ladies here! ) thru out the difficult times. This board was very quiet a while ago and it was like only me and u making conversation.

dd has been STTN for the past week, and getting on with one long nap steadily ( I hope I am not jinxing it). Sometimes I would AP a short am or pm nap (10-15min) if her mid-day nap goes wrong or she wakes too early in the morning. I want to share my dd's EASY if anyone's lo is a 10hr nite sleeper.

WU: 6ish (any time from 6 to 7)
nap: 11ish until 2 (earliest at 11, latest 11:45 and if the nap is less than 2hrs, I will AP a 10min nap at 4 and push BT closer to 9 )
BT: 8ish

If things continue to look good, I am thinking of pushing BT later and get a later WU and a later nap so dd can join us at lunch. Or I should wait until dd can handle a longer first A so I can just push the nap to later without interfering BT?
 

[Mama2C]

Lulu - I broke DD of the habit at 13 months and would not let her come to my bed ever and worked so hard on getting her to love her bed that now she adores her bed and would not ever want to come to my bed. When she was sick about a year ago I offered her that she could cuddle with me in my bed and she told me no, that I could cuddle with her in HER bed. LOL. But she isn't much of a cuddler!
Does your LO usually have two 40min naps? Doesn't seem like a lot of day sleeping...so he gets 80mins day sleep and 9.5hrs night sleep so in total he gets under 11hrs total sleep? My DS gets about 12.5-13hrs combined sleep...and I thought that was on the low end!! I know DS can't handle long A times after a short nap...
Do you think that contributes to his 5am wake ups?

[Mama2C]

So me again - thinking that maybe DS needs more sleep as he only gets about 12.5hrs combined sleep lately and looking at typical sleep times he should get closer to 14hrs...so instead of 1.5hr AM and 30min PM, wondering if I should do 1.5hr AM and 1hr pm...BUT I have a problem as I HAVE to pick up DD at the bus at 3:50...so while I'd like to do WU 6:30, Nap 10-11:30, Nap 3-4, BT 7:30 I CAN'T!!!

Any ideas??? I don't want an earlier WU! If I do a 1hr morning nap from 10-11, I would have a second nap from 2:30-4 and that doesn't work either....

I feel like he really needs to sleep during that 3:50 time but he can't...lately what I have been doing is Nap 10:30-12 and 4:15-4:45ish...but it hasn't really be helping to extend his night sleep (he does about 10.5hrs).


Sigh!

[lulunut]

cc-I think it maybe both prop (me!) and habitual (me!).  I will start to chart things.  I should have done this before but I guess no sleep doesn't help you think! SMILES for the Thanks!  It is good to have someone to chat with.  Just to know that you are not alone is the best!  Thanks to you too.  (and everyone here!!)  Your routine sounds interesting.  I may try that tonight.  This way I can get a later wake with a AP 4pm nap.  Congrats on the STTN and 1 nap for almost a week now!  That is great!!  9pm is late in my mind but I am up at 4-5am!!  I would wait until she can handle longer A time.  My dd at 2.5yrs does 6-6.5 hours A time so that is where that thought comes from.

mama2c-he averages about 1-2hours day sleep. And when things were good (STTN with 5am) he did 9-10hrs.  On the low side!  When I try to do short A times btwn am and pm he doesn't go down for pm until later.  He does 4-5 btwn.  I have tried every hour some days just to see when he would go.  Little monster!!  I hear your frustration on the school PU!!  Do you drive or walk to do school PU? It may contribute to the problem but your LO may get sleep, try to drive around before school run so LO gets proper amount of sleep or walk before.  Just an idea, not sure if it's the best!  Or cap the am to get shorter A time before pm and try for longer pm with wake at school pu.

Today was interesting, BT last night was 7:30, NW at 3:30.  I did PD and he went down for about 3-5 min and popped his head up, saw me and went back down for about 3-5min.  This went on and on until he eventually started to stand.  More PD and then screaming and trowing things out of the crib. By then it was 4:45 and DH walked in wondering why I didn't bring him in like I said I would!!!  I wasn't about to at 3:30am!!!  So I made his bottle and we went back to bed until 6:30.  Nap at 11:30.  1 hour on his own and 1/2 with me!  I needed the nap!!  

I think tonight I will try the 4pm snooze and later BT hoping for later wake.  Or should I do early BT with hope that no NW and I can deal with 5am?

[spodnic]

Lulu & Mama2c I am stuck with school runs at 12.35 and 3ish, it is gutwrenching to wake them up because of this. I hate it. I am APing both naps, I don't care, if I didn't DD's sleep would be even worse. When she goes to one nap I will drop the AP, I have simply been too tired to sort it out. At least she goes down at night with no AP so I know she can do it.

Hugs.

[*Ali*]

Mum-I feel like one of those annoying people that you give advice to and you just want to give up on!

Not at all 

Not looking forward to school runs messing with naps I must say. When I HAVE to go out at nap times I do sometimes put DS in the buggy just so he is already asleep in it when I need to go out and I don't have to wake him to leave the house. He doesn't tend to sleep as long in it though so I wouldn't want to have to do it every day.