Support Thread for 2-1 Nap Transition cont'd pt 3

[Lemonthyme]

Mama3 - I wouldn't keep the A time the same.  I'm a real convert to the morning catnap if there's been an EW.  So my LO has a 5 minute (literally no longer than 10 min) catnap in the morning either in the car or pushchair if he's woken early, then normally has a longer nap after lunch.  If nothing else it makes his days more predictable and I'm hoping longer term we'll get rid of the EW problem.  Interestingly yesterday at nursery where they're fond of putting him down for longer morning naps, he rolled off his bed and wondered off to play when they tried to put him down for a longer nap so I think he's getting the message now that naptime is after lunch.

[clairebear79]

Ladies he woke at 4.40am, back to sleep until 5.40am.  I fell asleep & I think he *might* have dozed off for 10mins, but he was definitely awake again by 6am.  So somewhere between 10h 40-50 night sleep.  Prob due to OT from how little day sleep he got yesterday.

I've watched him really carefully today & he's gone down for his nap at 10am.  So somewhere between 4h & 4h 10 A time.  Still no eye rubbing, fussing or yawning, but he laid his head on me & looked very tired around the eyes.  Plus he went all kind of hyper, so I'm a little worried he might be OT.  He just cried out at the 1hr mark - I'm hoping he'll resettle for a while longer.

Sabs - do you think I'd be best off capping that nap at 1.5hrs or is it ok to let him go 1h 45???  I agree, if I do 2hrs he will definitely refuse CN. But if I do 1.5 & then get his A time wrong & he fights CN then he could end up having not enough sleep again.  Its so hard doing it this way round - short AM is sooo MUCH easier - no nap fighting at all.

[Khalam's Mama]

I would always let them sleep as long as they want for the long nap since this is the one you Will end up keeping. He he then refuses the cn i would do an early bt. I was always sacred this would mean ew but it can't get much earlier than 4.45! I also suggest doing pd at the early waking even if it takes a while as it did help the ew here. If you can just get one non-ew it is easier to do 1 nap. I once put k down for bed at 5.45 and he slept until 6.30am so at least he then managed a decent a time on a long night.

[clairebear79]

Khalam's Mama - is that ok even if they are taking the long nap as early as 10am???  I have no idea what A time to follow it up with, so he doesn't end up OT at BT -  say if he did a 2hr nap from 10-12 & refused a CN, when should we be doing BT??? 

Also we have already endured 6 months of EW, some as early as 3.30am & often between 4-5am (seriously!) and we are just starting to make some headway with that & are regularly waking up between 5.30-6.30am now.  I really can't face much more of it!  Sigh!

I woke him after 1.5hrs this AM & he's gone down for his CN at 3.40pm.  I'm going to let him sleep until 4.15 & I'm hoping that a 7pm BT will be OK after that.

[*Ali*]

After putting her down for that nap at 11:10 she took a 2h15m nap. This is the longest nap in history that I've ever gotten out of her. I don't know how and why this happened but I was ready to check if she was breathing!!!!!!!!! That was her one nap of the day and DH attempted dinner at around 5/5:30 and she wasn't too interested in food. She took a bottle before bed but wound up getting up at 5am (after I just said we don't have EWs....I should have kept my fat mouth shut!). At 5am I gave her a bottle and she went back down until almost 7:30. So does that really count as a EW?

No I would call that a NW probably from hunger due to skipping dinner. I only call it EW if they are up for any length of time or start the day at that time. If it is just a feed and back to sleep then to me it's NW. I treat anything before 6am as a NW and would keep going until DS wnet back to sleep which luckily wasn't a regular thing for us.  Maybe try an earlier BT if she wakes from her nap early in the day again. I would have done a 6.30pm BT if the nap finished at 1.30ish. I always go by A times and it works for us but I know some babies are more touchy to the time of day they are used to be sleeping so I guess you need to experiment with what works for your LO. 

[scucci1979]

Claire, I would cap that nap if you don't want a really early bt. If you cap it he will be tired enough for his CN.  I never capped DD1's nap b/c she was a way better sleeper then DD2.  She loved and still loves her naps.  I eventually cut her pm nap from 30min to 20min and then jumped to one nap.  As I said, her cn was AP every day. If he sleeps 10-12pm then bt around 5pm, so in my opinion you would have to fit in that cn.  Your other option is to move that nap out and then let him sleep as long as he likes with an early bt.

agree with Ali. That nw would be hunger here too.

so ladies, she was asleep by 7:05pm and woke up at 6:50am.   I guess it was due to that short nap.  I put her down at 12:15pm and she didn't fall asleep until 12:35pm. What is up with this girl? she must really like her long morning A.  I don't know! Do you ladies suspect UT here. I figure if she sleeps for 1.5hours, aim for a 7pm bt.

any ideas ladies?

[aidenmc]

Joining in here. S is 12. 5mo. We have been doing the 2-1 it seems for months now. I keep deciding to commit to the 1 nap but then go back to 2 as he gets OT. We were doing okay for a few days on 1, but he started having more NWs and waking early from the nap. But, his nights were generally longer - 11-11.5hrs.

Our routine was looking like this:
WU 5:30
S 11-12:30 (if lucky)
BT 6:00

A few days ago he was so tired in the morning I gave him a 30 minute catnap (9-9:30) and discovered his preference for a 3 hr A time after that. He then slept from  12:30-2. Was aiming for a 6:30 BT but he wouldn't fall asleep till 7. He didn't have any early NWs (slept 5.5hr) till the first. Sounds good (and I was thinking I would finally be able to shift his day) but he woke at 5 for the day. Only 10 hrs. The next night he was ok in the first part then up every 1/2hour after midnight. Last night up crying after 45 minutes then every 1.5 hrs after 1:40 and up for the day at 4:22 (after being up at 3:55). Less than a 9.5 hr night! Not sure if BT was too late (as he's used to 6pm), but he seemed more UT than OT.

Why are his mornings getting earlier on 2 naps? I was thinking maybe he just shouldn't be getting 2 any more and I should ride out the OT on 1 nap? But then today he did 1/2 hr from 9:15-9:45 then from 1-3 (I woke him). A nice 2 hours, likely catching up from the short night. Will aim for 7pm again but am scared about what tomorrow morning will bring.

Can anyone shed some light on this??

[Khalam's Mama]

Khalam's Mama - is that ok even if they are taking the long nap as early as 10am???  I have no idea what A time to follow it up with, so he doesn't end up OT at BT -  say if he did a 2hr nap from 10-12 & refused a CN, when should we be doing BT??? 

I would have put him to bed at 5pm. Even if he got up at 5am at least he would have had 12hrs sleep so technically not an EW (since this is when they have less than 10.5hrs sleep) just not the timing you want. However in my experience K would sleep longer with an earlier BT than he would with a late one so he might sleep longer. If you get enough sleep even if it is 5-5 it is easier to move it back to 7-7 (in small increments) than to deal with OT.  I would try to push the nap out until as late as he will tolerate though.

We had EW for about 4 months at 9-13mo and these didn't go away until we just went to one nap.

After putting her down for that nap at 11:10 she took a 2h15m nap. This is the longest nap in history that I've ever gotten out of her. I don't know how and why this happened but I was ready to check if she was breathing!!!!!!!!! That was her one nap of the day and DH attempted dinner at around 5/5:30 and she wasn't too interested in food. She took a bottle before bed but wound up getting up at 5am (after I just said we don't have EWs....I should have kept my fat mouth shut!). At 5am I gave her a bottle and she went back down until almost 7:30. So does that really count as a EW?

No I would call that a NW probably from hunger due to skipping dinner. I only call it EW if they are up for any length of time or start the day at that time. If it is just a feed and back to sleep then to me it's NW. I treat anything before 6am as a NW and would keep going until DS wnet back to sleep which luckily wasn't a regular thing for us.  Maybe try an earlier BT if she wakes from her nap early in the day again. I would have done a 6.30pm BT if the nap finished at 1.30ish. I always go by A times and it works for us but I know some babies are more touchy to the time of day they are used to be sleeping so I guess you need to experiment with what works for your LO. 

I agree I would treat this as a NW. She went back to sleep so at least you didn't start your day then.

so ladies, she was asleep by 7:05pm and woke up at 6:50am.   I guess it was due to that short nap.  I put her down at 12:15pm and she didn't fall asleep until 12:35pm. What is up with this girl? she must really like her long morning A.  I don't know! Do you ladies suspect UT here. I figure if she sleeps for 1.5hours, aim for a 7pm bt.

any ideas ladies?

I think that sounds good.

Joining in here. S is 12. 5mo. We have been doing the 2-1 it seems for months now. I keep deciding to commit to the 1 nap but then go back to 2 as he gets OT. We were doing okay for a few days on 1, but he started having more NWs and waking early from the nap. But, his nights were generally longer - 11-11.5hrs.

Our routine was looking like this:
WU 5:30
S 11-12:30 (if lucky)
BT 6:00

A few days ago he was so tired in the morning I gave him a 30 minute catnap (9-9:30) and discovered his preference for a 3 hr A time after that. He then slept from  12:30-2. Was aiming for a 6:30 BT but he wouldn't fall asleep till 7. He didn't have any early NWs (slept 5.5hr) till the first. Sounds good (and I was thinking I would finally be able to shift his day) but he woke at 5 for the day. Only 10 hrs. The next night he was ok in the first part then up every 1/2hour after midnight. Last night up crying after 45 minutes then every 1.5 hrs after 1:40 and up for the day at 4:22 (after being up at 3:55). Less than a 9.5 hr night! Not sure if BT was too late (as he's used to 6pm), but he seemed more UT than OT.

Why are his mornings getting earlier on 2 naps? I was thinking maybe he just shouldn't be getting 2 any more and I should ride out the OT on 1 nap? But then today he did 1/2 hr from 9:15-9:45 then from 1-3 (I woke him). A nice 2 hours, likely catching up from the short night. Will aim for 7pm again but am scared about what tomorrow morning will bring.

Can anyone shed some light on this??

Are you sure there isn't anything else going on like teething/illness?

[clairebear79]

Becky - cute pic of S!!!  So you finally got the fab pm naps with the short AM nap then?!!!  IMHO I think the AM nap may still be a little early.  Have you tried AM nap starting no earlier than 9.30 - or how about cutting it even slightly shorter still to 15-20mins? 

We found we were STILL getting EW with the 20min AM nap from 10-10.20 & 2hr nap from 12.30-2.30, BT at 7pm.  So we've gone back to long AM short PM & except for today, our WU has improved quite a bit.  We are down from 2h 20 total day sleep to just 2hrs now though.  So maybe with the 30min AM nap its just too much day sleep?

It does make me wonder if all your NW's might be discomfort related though - is he still gassy/refluxy or teething   Or do you think still related to the boob When O is OT we often get a few WU's in the early part of the night & of course the EW's, but NEVER get WU's like that, so I'm not sure its entirely down to that.

Ladies - I stuck with the 35min CN & 7pm BT.  We'll see if we get another 5.30am WU tomorrow.  I'm hoping not but have a sneaking suspicion we might.  We've had a lot of stirrings/cries out this evening so I think he's actually getting rather OT.  Yesterday he only slept a total of 12 hrs (naps + night sleep )

[scucci1979]

Well, I am thinking her chatting could really mean she is OT. I put her down for bed at 7pm and she chatted/rolled around for 30min. She never does this before bed.

[aidenmc]

Claire, my fear is that the fab pm nap today was because of his super EW this morning and that by simply giving 2 naps his nights are going to be really short. I will push that nap out tomorrow and see what happens. Hopefully it won't be another 4 am wu. I do think there is some discomfort going on. His belly is often hard and round (gassy maybe?) and I am having trouble burping after I feed him sometimes as he seems too uncomfortable (yep still have to burp this guy). He's also doing more spitting lately. Could be teeth, but I've been saying that for weeks. His gums are bumpy but these teeth just seem to take forever to come in.

Sabrina - we get some happy playful behaviour when OT. Makes it tricky to know when he is. I think he's slightly less active when well rested.

[Ambinsi]

Thanks everyone....I guess now I understand the difference between an EW and NW for a feed. Yesterday we had a crazy day out and she was totally off. Today I attempted to get back on track and she only took one nap but it was only 1h20m. That's still not terrible for her, I've had worse!! She woke up too late to try a 2nd nap (and I've given up on that anyway) so we did a bedtime that was like 30-45mins earlier than usual. We'll see how the night goes.

I'm still struggling with A times and "fitting it all in" to the day, especially if she ends up going to bed early. I feel like something always suffers; she won't take a bottle, she isn't hungry enough for a meal, etc. Oh well, gotta keep trying till we get it right, I guess. I appreciate all your help SO MUCH!!! It makes me wish I had some advice or words of wisdom for all of you going through the same thing. I'm sorry I don't, but I'm reading up to see if I can chime in and help!!!

[clairebear79]

Becky - I totally agree yesterday would be due to the super EW - it looks like you've had a few decent PM naps though   ISWYM though about worrying that the 2 naps are making things worse.  I think you perhaps need to aim for 1 nap but maybe do 2naps every few days to keep OT at bay - isn't that what a lot of others do?

Ladies we got a 5.55am WU here.  10h 55 sleep.  Hoping we've caught up a little on the day before & can get that morning A extended again.

[newmama12]

Hi all! We're still getting EW's. It's been a week of cutting the AM nap to 45. Should I start backing it up to 30? His schedule is like this:

5:15am WU
9:15-10 nap
around 1-2:30 nap
6:45/7 BT

I don't know if he's still getting too much daytime sleep. He doesn't nap more than 1.5 in the PM and with doing 45 in the AM, it's only 2.15. If I don't wake him in the AM he'll go 1-1.5 hours most days. Is his BT too late? Is his PM nap too late after that 45 minute AM? He use to sleep 11+ hours at night. Now, we're down to 10 on a good night. I really don't know what's going on or where to go at this point.

[scucci1979]

Cyndie, I would try 30mins for one week.

As suspected we got an earlier wu this morning. I heard her stir at 6am then woke up at 6:15am.  Why can't this girl just show me tired signs.  She will honestly play until she passes out. LOL  Anyhow, pushed her to 12pm.