How to get independant sleep when they just stand in their cot???

[Grants]

Thanks for the answer about OT/OS with 1 nap Emma! My DS is 10.5 months.
I think he is teething. He had his first 2 teeth quite late 9.5 months so I think he is catching up now!

I also hate waking my DS after 30/45 minutes nap. Especially because my “me time” feels really short! But it is the only choice I have as my DS does exactly the same as yours Emma, wants an afternoon nap really late messing up with BT!

LOL for thinking that your los communicate telepathically! They might do it, you never know……hahaha 

[DM588]

Emma i take my hat off to you - having the next one i know will probably make all of this now look so easy!!!!

I can't actually remember what i did the day he woke at 1.30am - probably not enough though!!! I have a had a few days this week where he's been in his pushchair/car most of the day!!! And he really needs to be crawling around to use that energy up!!!

(OMG - he's just fallen asleep on his own without me even going in once - i'm watching the monitor as i type - yippeee!!!)

Anyway back on track - yesterday he showed sleepy signs at 10.05am after 6am wake up, so i did a 5 min wind down (which is to sit with him on my lap watching TV - it really calms him!!) then i put him down at 10.10am - i had to go in once after he wore himself out climbing up and down but then he was asleep by 10.20am!! So all in all not bad - 10 mins!!! I woke him 45 mins later (yes it was tough) but he was quite happy although still a little sleepy!! I then had to go out in the car and he fell asleep at 1.20pm (which i thought was about right after 2.5hrs A time and short nap) BUT, he then woke 20mins later when i got him out of the car and wouldn't go back to sleep - even in pushchair - he normally always transports easily asleep from car to pushchair!!! So he only had 20mins and then really resisted nap at home which i tried at 4pm but he screamed his room down even with me there and when i tried APOP'ing him!!! He screamed until i went near the door and then stopped - so i gave up and he carried on playing happily even though he was tired and he fell asleep on his BT bottle at 5.50pm!!!

He therefore had 45mins AM nap and 20mins PM nap!!! But slept through until 4am and then got in with us and went back to sleep until 6am!!!

He showed sleepy signs at 9.30am this morn so after sitting with daddy for a few mins watching TV i took him upstair and put him in his cot - and hey presto he has gone to sleep without me going in once!!!! took him dead on 10mins - the odd few winges but not even a cry really!!! So i'll leave him 45 mins again and try for a good PM nap again. I'm sure if i get his naps right and he has enough stimulation with a later BT of about 7-7.30pm he'll go back to STTN!!! he just really needs the stimulation with not too much sleep!!!!

Hopefully we're on the up again!!!!!! fingers crossed and i'll keep you posted!!! x

[Grants]

Brilliant news DM!!! Well done!! Your LO seems to be responding very well though!!
Only 1 hour of naps yesterday doesn’t sound much!??! My LO also does that some days! I think they can go a few days with little sleep and then they seem to catch up on other days. Don’t they?!?!

I think at this age they need sooooooo much stimulation!!! I feel that I can’t provide enough stimulation for my DS at the moment. I try and take him to different parks at least twice a day and we meet with some of his friends at least once a week. He has LOADS of toys and we got him a puppy 3 weeks ago but he seems to need more and more!!!  He will be spending 2 days in nursery, 1 day with daddy and 2 days with me from September. So I think he will be getting more stimulation then. What about you guys?! How do you stimulate your los? I’m sure for Emma it is not much of an issue as her lo can play with sister! 

[DM588]

Yes thanks you Grants, he does seem much better. I definately think they go for a while without much sleep and then all of a suddencatch up on it all hence the week and a half i had 12hr nights!!!

I really struggle to entertain/stimulate DS. He's got loads of toys and constantly follows me around the house but i also have a friend with a LO the same age and we've been spending a lot more time together which is great as they love chasing after each other now and playing with the toys. We also do trips to the park but I find i really struggle when i'm out for most of the day as he'll quite happily snooze away in the car and get too much sleep and too close to BT.

Much like you, from September DS will have 2 days with Daddy and half a day at Nursery and possibly half a day with Grandma!!! The puppy sounds like a great idea for him - not so sure DH would agree though!! lol. I'm off out again this afternoon so hopefully he will just have a 1hr nap on the go and not any more!!! I can't stop living just to make sure he has exactly the right amount of sleep surely!!! So on we go!!! Fingers crossed for a good day for us all xxx

[Grants]

DM and Emma!!! I need a bit of your wisdom here!!

My DS is waking up earlier and earlier!! Today he woke up at 4:30!! He never goes back to sleep after EW and PD doesn’t work with him!! I’m so tired! (he used to wake up at 5:30 and if I’m lucky 6am)

DM you said that your LO was also waking up at 4 am after you changed his routine. Did it stop? Was it only a few days?

Is the EW due to routine adjustments? or OT? He is also waking up during the night at least twice. (he only needs a bit of reassurance and goes back to sleep again ) I’m doing BT earlier than normal until he readjusts.
 
Thank you gilrs!
xxx
PS: How are your LOs getting on with 2 to 1 transition?

[Emma-Rose's mom]

Ooh, that must be so hard to wake at 4:30. Have you ruled out all other things like teething, etc? Just a thought because of the NWs, too. Is he cranky during the NWs or is he having a party and wanting to play? The reason I ask is because if he is having EW and having parties at night, it's usually because he needs to change to 1 nap or needs more A or more stimulation.  So, my early wakings got better as I adjusted his day routine for more stimulation, but it might be different in your case. If he's cranky during NWs, then he is obviously tired, but I'm not sure what your routine is like right now. Another thought...Maybe bedtime is actually TOO early? I know with my lo, he always sleeps 10 hours, no matter what. So, if I put him down at 8:00, he wakes at 6:00, and if he has a bad day and I put him down earlier, let's say 7:00, he'll wake at 5:00. What is your los natural night rhythm? He might be following that?

I had an amazing night. Both DS and DD sttn!! That hasn't happened in 2 weeks!! But it was quite strange as the night before he woke up 6 times.  Something was definitely going on with him THAT night. I think it was his allergies, as he has chronic hives, so last night I gave him his allergy meds, and it's the first time he's sttn in weeks. And the other thing... DS also only did 1 nap yesterday, and he had energy like crazy, and kept going and going. Kept looking for sleepy signs which never came, and he FINALLY went down for his 1st nap at 2:15 and slept until 5:15. It was crazy. I was thinking about noon, c'mon, he MUST be getting tired but he kept playing and playing, talking, and dancing, and just was a bundle of happy bundles. It was weird. Maybe all that activity pooped him out and he sttn because of that. Who knows? I'm just happy to get a full night's rest.

But, having said all of that, I've really been having to put my foot down and really work on pd to put DS to sleep when he stands in his cot or is sitting up, crying. I've been APOP too much, bringing him to bed with me on occasion and rocking too long to the point where he was already asleep before laying him down. DH is more guilty of it than me, but I've noticed my NWs are always worse when I start to rely on AP. So, I've gone back to doing pd. DS thinks it's a game sometimes and other times, he gets really frustrated and mad that I won't pick him up. But, it's not all his fault. I've been so inconsistent. So, trying to get my head back in the game, here. Hope you ladies are doing okay on that front.

[Grants]

Hi Emma!

I think he will be teething for the whole second year as he only has 2 teeth at the moment!! lol I do think he is teething. But I don’t think this is the reason he is waking up early. He doesn’t wake up complaining or in pain. He just wakes up and acts as he would act if he had woken up at normal time. (He talks to himself for around 20 min, sometimes longer, before he starts complaining). He used to get 13/13.5 sleep in total. Now that I have cut his morning nap he is only getting around 11/11.5 hours?!?!?
My routine (how it should be) at the moment is: (if you can call this a routine as everyday seems to be different at the moment ) . I have to alter the times to suit his EWs. Today for example he woke up at 4:30am. Had a bottle at 6:00 and had a 45 min nap at 8:30. And then slept again at 12:30 . The phone woke him up only after 1 hour nap and he wouldn’t go back to sleep. So he was very tired in the evening and I had to give him dinner at 16:00 and he went to bed at 17:15. I hope he doesn’t wake up even earlier tomorrow!
His natural night rhythm is 11 /11.5 hours. But it is weird as if I put him to bed at 18:00 he wakes up at 5:30 and if I put him to bed at 19:00 he also wakes up at 5:30?!?!??!It seems like he always have to wake up at 5 or 5:30.But at the moment his wake times are all over the place so I really don’t know what has happened to his natural night rhythm???

Wake up 5:30
E:6:00 Bottle + breakfast 7:30
A:
S:9:30 30 or 45 min nap /if we are going out for the day I let him sleep for 1 hour .
E:
A:
S:13:00 sleeps for 1 or 1.30 hour doesn’t seem to sleep more than that
E:bottle + snacks
A:
S: Bottle. BT at 6:30/ 7:00
(I didn’t write down the snacks he has in between Es)

It is lovely to hear that you had a well deserved full night’s rest!!
Don’t feel guilty for doing some AP Emma. I think sometimes we all need to cut some corners as we are always so tired with our Los, especially you with 2 Los!  If I’m being honest sometimes I wish I could use some rocking or props with my DS.  It would make my life much easier if my LO accepted a bit of rocking, especially now when he is giving me such a hard time!  When my LO was 4.5 /5 months I put him on a 4 hour EASY routine( he was a snacker and needed some structure with his feeds),I also taught him how to sleep independently( he would only fall asleep with rocking) and taught him how to have longer naps( he only used to have 30 min naps). I did this all at once!! It took me around 1 month to get it all right. So after all that training he won’t accept any rocking!! I only found it out recently when I tried to do a bit of AP and it didn’t work:( ) So don’t think it is all that  bad to do some AP !! ;P 

[Grants]

PS: Do you think my DS EWs are due to OT or routine adjustments? I'm a bit concerned as he is not getting 13 hours of sleep anymore?!?!

[Grants]

By the way Emma I forgot to ask .....how did you manage BT with DS ?! He slept from 14:15 to 17:15!!!! 3 hours?!?! What time did he go to bed?!?! My DS only goes to bed alright if he wakes up no later than 14:00 from his afternoon nap.

[DM588]

Hey ladies...arghhh sorry - i have had/am having a nightmare!! After starting to see some improvement i have been away for the weekend (which wasn't a problem) but DS has had a really nasty bug the last couple of days and got a really sore bottom . He's had real trouble getting to sleep regardless of whether i try APOP or on his own. I had to put him in his pushchair this morning and push it indoors. He didn't go to bed until 11.30pm last night due to pain and then woke at 4.45am - got in with me (he was in my room anyway as still away) and then slept until 7am!! he then didn't have first nap until 11am (was tired but kept resisting then happily playing) and i then let him have 2hrs nap - so i could catch up on some sleep also. He woke at 1pm and then had another hour nap on our way home from 4pm-5pm. he was asleep at 7.30pm - which i did pretty much allow him to fall asleep on his BT bottle just so i didn't have a repeat of him trying to go to sleep like last night with 2 hrs of screaming!!! poor boy . So who knows where we are now??

Well done Emma with your LO's bet you feel like a new woman.!!

sorry to hear you're still have EW's Grants. I think I'm right there with you again!!!! My head is such a muddle at the mo so i'm getting an early night and got to get my boy all better before i can start the hard work again - right now i just want to make sure he has enough rest so although i'm trying to stick to routine and independant sleep as much as poss i'm concentrating more on him getting better obviously!! I just hope i'm not re-inforcing his old habits too much!!!!

[Grants]

Poor you DM!! Poor DS
You are right DM! The most important thing is to get DS better. Don’t worry about some AP, He obviously needs lots of attention as he is in pain!! It must be awful for them to be in such pain and not being able to express what they are feeling!
Hope your LO gets better soon!!!

sending lots of hugs your way
xxx

[Emma-Rose's mom]

Hey, ladies.

First, DM, (((((((hugs))))))).  All that sickness is not good! Sending well wishes, and I hope that your DS gets better soon, and that you get a break, too. You can always go back to sleep training once this is all sorted through!

Grants, your DS is just a little older than mine, so I can only compare my lo and yours, and from the look of things, I don't think you have to be too concerned with the fact that he is getting less sleep in general. My lo is doing about 12 hours total sleep right now, with 10 hours nightsleep and 2 hours (avg) total on naps.  (Although the other day he gave me that 3 hour nap, which I normally wouldn't let him do, except that I didn't know how long to let him sleep as he has never done just 1 nap before.) Anyway, I also looked at my sleep diary for both DS and DD. They are similar, although I have to say that my los are "not typical" with BW recommended amounts of sleep. I always seem to come up short, but no matter what I do, I have never been able to extend sleep amounts. Having said that, when they were babies, they were doing 15 hours total sleep, and by 1 year, DD was doing about 12 hours total sleep, and it looks like now DS is following pretty much the same pattern.

So,  looking at your routine, it looks like your DS is doing a similar routine to mine about a month ago. So it could be that your lo might be getting too much sleep, maybe?? Some kids just can handle less sleep. Is he tired by bedtime or not? I know it sounds late, but my DS has been getting to bed around 8:00 pm, and waking at 6:00 AM. Even that weird 3 hour nap didn't mess up his BT. If your lo is tired by bedtime, but he is getting up around 5:00 or 5:30 consistently, have you thought of trying w2s around 4:45? Your 4:30 "happy" EW, IMHO, sounds like he needs longer days. . .but, I'm only making that guess based on what my own DS is doing and has nothing to do with BW...

Today, I had another day with only 1 nap, and I'm TOTALLY surprised that DS lasted all the way until 13:45 before his nap, then he only took a 1.5 hour nap and was completely fine all the way until BT at 20:00. He did get fussy around his morning nap time, which used to be around 10:30 AM, but we've been taking swim lessons which start at 10:40, so I think he gets a second wind from the cold water during swim class. And after that, I keep thinking he's going to be so tired after swimming, etc., but he just keeps going. So, I might have been forced to transition to 1 nap! And if DS sttn again, perhaps that's all the sleep he needs, afterall. Cross fingers. 

But, on the independent sleep, front, I have been posting on the props board about bouncing and rocking as props, and they suggested to let lo play in cot for wind-down (which mine happily does) and wo. If he cries (real cry, that is, not that mantra cry), then wi and start doing pd to settle. I guess I am not supposed to do pd when he's happy, otherwise it becomes a push down/stand up game. Anyway, I did that for nap today, and it worked like a charm. He played in his crib for about 20 minutes, started to cry, I came in to settle, and pd only 1 time, and he fell asleep.

[Grants]

Hi there Emma,

DS woke up at 5:30 this morning even though he went to sleep at 17:15 last night!( he woke up a few times during the night but I didn’t need to go into his room as I could hear he was self soothing.) There is no logic on my DS sleeping patterns !!! Lol My LO is tired at bed time, especially now that I’m cutting his morning nap. It feels like he is trying to readjust.  We already thought about putting him to bed at 8pm but I’m sooo tired at 8pm that I’d rather put him down earlier and have a bit of free time with DH. I think I need to accept the fact that if I want him to sleep early I will have to get up early too! 

Well done to your DS!!! He seemed to have done the 2 to 1 transition on his own!!! Good for you as you don’t have to be cutting naps and worrying about his sleeps etc….
Good to hear that PD is working fine for you!!! It makes a big difference when they can go down without a fight!!

[Emma-Rose's mom]

Grants, ikwym about the early bedtime/early rise thing. I still battle that constantly. Honestly, I would rather both of my los be in bed by 19:00/19:30, which was their BT before our long summer days, but with it being light outside, and we have moved into a new home and no blackout blinds, it's been hard for me to put them down so early. Plus, they seem to have so much energy and are fighting me at 19:00 BT, so it got easier for me to do later BT and on the plus side, I get to sleep in 1 hour, too. But, after summer, will be back to work, and they will have to be at daycare by 7:00 AM, so I have a feeling 18:30/19:00 BT will be around the corner, soon.

It does sound like your lo is just adjusting to new sleep schedule from shortening morning nap, if he's tired at BT and got up at 5:30. It does say in BW book that 5:00/5:30 is a natural wake time for a lot of los, and we kinda have to just live with that! lol! Maybe that 4:30 EW the other day was just a fluke, adjustment period, like you said. He thought it was 5:30, unfortunately for you that day.

DS sttn again (twice in a row, now). Don't know still if this is because of new routine or allergy meds. I can't say for sure if pd is working or not yet. It seems to be okay for now, but I still usually have to pu a few times. Haven't managed to JUST do pd yet, as DS gets so upset. But, I'm counting my blessings and hope that his new behavior continues.

xoxo

[Grants]

Hi there DM and Emma!

How is your LO doing DM? Is he feeling better?

I have copied and pasted below a question I posted on Naps board. I would also like your opinon on this guys. Please let me know what you think. xxx

"I would like to ask if it is alright when we have to go out for the day to let my DS have a longer nap in the morning at home instead of the afternoon? This way I can ensure that he will have at least 1 proper nap. At the moment we are cutting his am nap short because of pm nap refusal and resitantce to fall asleep. But if I want to go out for the rest of the day this is not a good idea as he would need a longer nap in the afternoon and he never really sleeps longer than 40 minutes in the pushchair. So sometimes for us is easier to have a 30 min nap on the go in the afternoon instead of the morning.
Do you think this is a problem? Is that classed as inconsistency to LOs?  I only would do that when we have a planned day out. ( once a week or so) "