How did YOU introduce dairy?

[babybarr]

So DS is dairy intolerant - he is now just over 2yrs old.  All of my family members outgrew their intolerance by 18mths or so and I just wondered the different ways to introduce dairy.  I would really ideally like the quickest way as I plan to do it over my school holidays!

TIA

Laura

[donna_issabella]

Well, we didn't do it too quickly, but more because I was chicken.

I started by giving hidden dairy at about 2 - 2.5. He had no adverse reaction, so we then went the cheese and yogurt way. That was more then a year ago. I only last week started giving him 2% cow's milk. As I say, we could have done i tmuch sooner, but he had a few episodes of gastro which always makes his reflux flare. We stopped his reflux meds about 4-6 weeks ago; TBH could have done that sooner too, but as he was doing well and the milk avoidance did not bother me so much, I just kept the status quo.


How long is your holiday for?

I would do hidden dairy for 1 week, then yogurt and/or cheese daily for a nother week and then see how things are. Our paed recommended toasted or microwaved cheese first, as it helped get rid of some of the protein first and easier to tolerate.

If all is well, go for it!

HTH - probably not much!

[scarlettsmom]

We are still in the process.   

We introduced hidden dairy around 18 months, and then cheese (heated, like on pizza) a month or so later.  We are just now about to try ice cream, and I don't plan to try actual milk for a long time. 

I think if you are looking for a quick route doing what pp suggested (hidden for a week, then heated cheese, then yogurt for week and so on) is your best bet. 

Good luck, let us know how it goes!

[MLK]

We started at age 2 (1 month ago) but it has been stop start because of illness.

I started with butter first, then cooked dairy, then cheese. That's where we are so far - I haven't dared to give him straight milk yet!

TBH there are days when I'm not sure he isn't still intolerant- even thoguh he's been sick lots the only times he's ever had an ear infection was after the trials and yes he got one a couple of weeks ago. Also had a sore red bottom, another symptom... AND pooed in the bath again! But we are persevering this time as it hasn't been as abd as before.

[Mashi]

To offer another perspective, our hospital paed was against doing the hidden dairy first.  He had me test with straight milk right from the start. His reasoning is/was that if he can't have straight milk then he can't have hidden milk either.  I know a lot of people advise the opposite (as all pps above have done the opposite) but I did it the paed's way as I couldn't be bothered with trying for hidden milk, not seeing a reaction for a while so thinking it was ok and then going forward and such and then getting to a point where I realised he WAS still reacting and having to go backwards and remove foods from his diet,and then start second guessing as to where to draw the line, iykwim?

We went out for lunch one day and DH gave DS some of his potatoes without realising they were most likely cooked in butter.   We were already up the wall in Germany with food labels and explaining to people and so on, that the next day I just gave him a syringe of about 5ml of milk and the next day another 5ml.  Kept my eye on things for a couple of days and he was fine. Gave him a slice of cheese a few days later and still no problems so from that day on I just went ahead with it!  Took a few weeks to wean off of formula and onto cow's milk but that was merely for the taste. 

[babybarr]

I just gave him a syringe of about 5ml of milk and the next day another 5ml.

And then nothing for a few days to see?  I'm wondering about this direct approach myself... I wasn't sure if I should do 5mls and then increase or what to do really?  I'm pretty sure DS has had hidden dairy in things when we have been out - probably not much but even so!  Also he was having an olive oil spread for ages which I later discovered had way in it, oops!  I did cut it out completely in case that was the reason for the NWs but no such luck

Would it take longer to show up then with hidden dairy? I don't really understand enough about it, I know my mum introduced us to hidden dairy first - butter I think.

[Mashi]

Do you mean would using straight milk take longer to show up than hidden dairy? If so, then I would think that with a shot of plain old milk any reaction would be faster, not slower. I think that is the other reason for using milk rather than hidden or trace dairy -- if you go with hidden and he reacts or has say tummy problems or funny poop or a rash and it's a day or two later, are you really sure that it was the hidden dairy or could it be totally something else? There is always some room for second guessing with any food trial so going the straight milk route removes as much of that second guessing as possible (but still leaves some I guess!)

What they do in the hospital at 12 months in my area is a syringe with 1ml, then one hour later 2ml, then an hour later 3ml and so on until they hit 5ml with no reaction (and I have to say all I could think of was "um, and what about his naps?!!") DS was booked in for it ages before we knew we were moving abroad and as we moved the day after he turned 1 we had to cancel; they would not do it before - one of those silly cases where the computer needs him to be more than 12 months for them to be allowed to book it in, so they could not do it at 11 months and 3weeks old.  So we were left on our own to do it.  

I will be honest and say the 5ml was just because I was lazy!!!!  I gave him 1ml at first and it seemed so pointless when as I said I was pretty sure he'd had butter a few days before.  So I just gave him the other 4mls a few minutes later.  I was totally at the end of my rope with the milk thing (I know everyone is! It is so hard to read labels in another language when you are struggling to figure out what the food is in the first place!)

I just kept my eye on him for crankiness, nappy problems, rashes, spit up, and so on, and then did another 5mls the next day (or possibly waited 2 days) and when there were no issues I just went ahead with it. The first while we were still careful about things like not overloading him on dairy as I think that as with any "new" food too much can be too much, iykwim.  A very short time after he was newly onto milk whatever I'd made for dinner was with a heavy cream sauce and I remember having to explain my logic to DH about why I was not letting DS have any...and it was just because I feel that a heavy cream sauce can be hard on MY tummy and I have no milk issues, so for him, who was just getting used to milk/dairy it would be a thick and heavy thing to digest.  Kwim?  We kept things quite simple at first, just a wee pot of yogurt or slice of cheese each day and then after a few weeks just went on with things as if he were any other toddler and had never had a milk problem in the past, kwim?  I admit that I probably got off easier than most in this case so I am thankful for that!!!

[Peek-a-boo]

To offer another perspective, our hospital paed was against doing the hidden dairy first.  He had me test with straight milk right from the start. His reasoning is/was that if he can't have straight milk then he can't have hidden milk either.  I know a lot of people advise the opposite (as all pps above have done the opposite) but I did it the paed's way as I couldn't be bothered with trying for hidden milk, not seeing a reaction for a while so thinking it was ok and then going forward and such and then getting to a point where I realised he WAS still reacting and having to go backwards and remove foods from his diet,and then start second guessing as to where to draw the line, iykwim?

I agree with this perspective.  We started allowing my DS to have hidden dairy around  age 2 and it seemed like everything was going fine.  When he did start to have minor symptoms he didn't  have the words to tell us what was going on.  Baby #2 arrived in the midst of this, so we weren't paying as close attention as we should have and several months later, we realized that the cumulative hidden dairy had created intestinal irritation that was resulting in very odd bowel movements and an ongoing tummy ache (hand on tummy frequently saying, "tummy broken").   Took us a while to put it all together and eliminate the trace dairy which solved the problem. 

Now, if he has hidden dairy in an isolated occasion, it doesn't cause a noticeable affect, but if he has it several days in a row, then we start to get weird poop and tummy aches. 

Personally, I'm cautious after observing DS's cumulative reactions.  I feel like if they react to actual milk , then allowing them to have hidden dairy may not cause overt symptoms, but is likely not really best for their bodies as it would be a constant source of mild irritation.  JMO  We only allow hidden dairy in social situations (birthday cake, etc) and try to avoid even that as much as possible. 

[babybarr]

Thanks Mashi and Bethany.  I reckon given all DS's other health issues - I may give the direct approach a go.  I really don't want him ending up in hospital again with a ie tummy cos we weren't sure what was going on iyswim?

I mean when I first switched to soy it was def cos he had tummy ache.  What other things should I look for and with 5mls do you think it'd happen within 24hrs say?

[Mashi]

What other things should I look for and with 5mls do you think it'd happen within 24hrs say?

I am pretty sure I remember being told to watch for whatever symptoms he showed in the first place that made you know he was allergic/intolerant when he was younger. So for DS his cheeks used to go horribly RED and his skin all blotchy, and then would get tummy pains very shortly after and his poops were explosive.  Obviously his poops would not be the same kind of explosive as that was in the days before he was on solids, but still keeping that in mind.  Paed also did say not to go JUST on what his poop was like, as any toddler switching from formula onto cow's milk (ie/ non milk allergic kids who are on regular formula) will have a couple of weeks of soft stools and possibly even diarrhea as their body gets used to the different milk.  I remember thinking "well then how will I know?"  but when DS did surely have some really soft poops that were even a bit runny, I have to say that I did know it was okay....I guess just because he still pooped at his normal time, rather than it being sudden and quite soon after the milk, he did not seem to be in any pain at all with it and I just felt that it was okay?

[babybarr]

Thanks Mashi 

[Edesanja]

At 22 months we did hidden dairy for 5 days, then yoghurt increased by 1t a day for 5 days, then cheese, then 50ml of milk. If I were to do it again (which I will get to with DS ) then I'll defnintely do it the way Mashi described.

DD has always had really loose poo and when we first gave her dairy it was looser for a few days but I think that can happen to any child introduced to dairy for the first time. Her poo is now no looser than it was when she wasn't on dairy - I think it's just her. She got red eyes when we started and they haven't ever gone away. It seems to be the only symptom though, so we've just continued to give it to her.

[MLK]

I know with my friend in Japan, they did some tests (skin and blood tests) and her kids were able to tolerate cooked egg/milk at first, then 6/12 months later coudl take the uncooked versions ( apparently raw egg is common in Japan) They used to come in rashes so the reaction was pretty obvious.

Can't remember who, but lately someone posted a link to an article describing that cooked protein were more likely to be tolerated before uncooked proteins, and exposure to the cooked proteins could reduce the sensitivity to the uncooked versions.

When I say cooked dairy, I'm not talking about hidden dairy  - I'm talking baked goods with yoghurt, milk, butter etc in them like muffins, cakes etc. I made a slice where I soaked oats in yoghurt overnight then cooked it with apple puree, bananas, currants, butter and egg etc and give him one big piece for breakfast. So would be more than 5 g of dairy per serve, say around 10 g?

One thing i have found with allergies/intolerances is that there is still a lot of research to be done as the big increase in the numbers of kids with them is a relatively new phenomenom. So there are a lot of different opinions out there depending on which theory the docs subscribe too!

At 18 months I tried giving him straight yoghurt first and he reacted badly immediately so I decided to do the more gradual approach this time.

[scarlettsmom]

What other things should I look for and with 5mls do you think it'd happen within 24hrs say?

I am pretty sure I remember being told to watch for whatever symptoms he showed in the first place that made you know he was allergic/intolerant when he was younger. So for DS his cheeks used to go horribly RED and his skin all blotchy, and then would get tummy pains very shortly after and his poops were explosive.  Obviously his poops would not be the same kind of explosive as that was in the days before he was on solids, but still keeping that in mind.  Paed also did say not to go JUST on what his poop was like, as any toddler switching from formula onto cow's milk (ie/ non milk allergic kids who are on regular formula) will have a couple of weeks of soft stools and possibly even diarrhea as their body gets used to the different milk.  I remember thinking "well then how will I know?"  but when DS did surely have some really soft poops that were even a bit runny, I have to say that I did know it was okay....I guess just because he still pooped at his normal time, rather than it being sudden and quite soon after the milk, he did not seem to be in any pain at all with it and I just felt that it was okay?

This is a really good point.  We just into'd cream/ice cream and DD2 has had some big soft soft poops, BUT I am not halting the trial yet because it can be totally normal.  It's scary though (for me) since she suffered SO much in the beginning, but she hasn't had a hard time passing the stools and is otherwise happy so it's looking good.

I definitely see the pros in going for straight milk first.  That's actually what our ped allergist wanted us to do, but I was just chicken, lol.  For us I wanted to expand her food base and as Lan said there is research that says cooked dairy proteins can be tolerated easier than uncooked, and that seems to work for us. 

One thing i have found with allergies/intolerances is that there is still a lot of research to be done as the big increase in the numbers of kids with them is a relatively new phenomenom. So there are a lot of different opinions out there depending on which theory the docs subscribe too!

Very true!

Laura - have you started the trial yet?  Good luck when/if you do!!!   

[babybarr]

Not yet... probably on Sat, first day of the school hols yey!!!  I just couldn't face it while still being at work.  I'm still torn as to which way to go.

Do you think this may work...
I try the straight milk first - if it's fine GREAT!!  If not I try the cooked dairy and see if he tolerates that and then go from there ?  What do you girls reckon?

[donna_issabella]

I would do that. It made life SO much easier when we did not have to avoid hidden dairy.

Just keep an eye out for 'off' behaviour with the hidden dairy.

[scarlettsmom]

I agree - sounds like a good plan and would cut a LOT of corners if he is OK with it.  If not you can back peddle if you feel like it.

[babybarr]

Ok so we did 5mls of half fat cow's milk (is that ok or do I need to be giving him full fat?) that's all we had in the house!  So do I do another 5mls tomorrow or wait a day or do 10mls?  Mashi?

[Mashi]

Half fat should be fine - I believe there is more protein in full fat but don't think that it's really an issue - he can have milk or he can't, kwim? 

I saw on your other thread you said he's been a bit of stinker today and also has not had a BM yet - both of those things could be reaction related or they both could just be normal things that are totally not related, things that you wouldn't ever chalk up to anything at all if it wasn't for the milk, right?  So as far as giving him more tomorrow or not, I would say either tomorrow or the next day - if you think that today was potentially a reaction, then I would not do tomorrow, see how he is, and then go for another 5ml on Sunday.  See what you get. Then unless reaction is clear cut, go for another 5-10ml on Monday. (either 2 separate 5mls or 10mls at once) If he's still fine then, I would proceed slowly but confidently!

[babybarr]

both of those things could be reaction related or they both could just be normal things that are totally not related, things that you wouldn't ever chalk up to anything at all if it wasn't for the milk, right?

Exactly.  The BM thing though is odd - I'm surprised he hadn't had one before we gave the milk as he'd already had breakfast and had been up (and certainly awake lol ) for quite a while, so not convinced that is a reaction.  With regard to the behaviour I am not sure.  But things have been pretty stressful today so it may just be that.
I just don't wanna push it, I guess I could try again tomorrow and if it's the same leave off for a day or so and see what happens?
Oh and happy belated birthday to your LO Mashi.  Internet acces has been a bit limited for me at the mo so I'm not managing to keep up with all the threads.  I hope he (and you) are feeling a bit better now.

[Mashi]

Then I would say wait another day and on Monday give him 5-10 ml...then maybe wait another 24-48 hours and do 10-20 ml, kwim?

[babybarr]

Only just reading this now !!  I gave him 5mls again this morning and he's had 2 BMs and hasn't really been naughty today.  So all in all quite good - do you think I should lay off tomorrow or try upping it?

[Mashi]

Great news!! To be honest, as far as giving it or not, I would say you could argue either case, kwim?  Just go with how you feel...nothing wrong with taking a break to watch him for a day, nothing wrong with giving it a go tomorrow figuring that if he is going to have a reaction then you may as well find out sooner rather than later! 

I think that if it were me......hmmmmmm....I think I'd probably give him a slice/chunk of cheese or a small yogurt/fromage frais or a glass of milk (say 4 ounces or so) and see what happens then.  But that's just me, and like I say you could argue it either way, kwim?

Glad to hear things are going well so far, honestly I remember how much our life CHANGED when DS was no longer milk and soy free and I think I cried tears of full on joy, and I only had to stick with it until about 14months or so. So really am happy that things seem to be looking positive for you Laura!!

[babybarr]

Thanks - maybe I'll try a bit of cheese.  Something which is not nice dairy free!!  I'll keep you posted, and thanks for your support.

[scarlettsmom]

Looking good!  Yay!  Hoping it continues.   

[Mashi]

Laura, how are things going with the milk?

[babybarr]

Thanks for asking.  I haven't been going overboard just trying to let him have something with milk in it once a day.  I'm also not looking at every single label - although it'll take a long time to get out of that habit!

I wasn't really sure of the next stage - whether I should be moving him onto cow's milk for cereal etc or what really.

[pamelamcgahon]

Hi, not been on a while so just caught up with this thread.  We have started reintroducing dairy this week as Keira was 1 a couple of weeks ago.   As Keira's reactions weren't 'serious' when she was little the dietician said to do a spoon of yogurt day 1, , half a tub (50g tubs) day 2, a whole tub day 3, then from day 4 to substitute 1oz of milk per day in her bottles.  She has 3 bottles at the moment (we dropped from 4 the week before last as I was worried about her apetite).  She seemed ok with the yoghurt (fromage frais is what we used actually as also suggested) and I have started with the milk.  Up to half and half today and all good too.  An extra dirty nappy but they're all quite solid.  Also did some dairylea sandwiches yesterday and today which she loved. 

The reason we were were told to do an ounce of milk at a time substitution was more to do with the tase than the reaction of a whole bottle.  As she has been on Nutramigen it is likely she wouldn't really like full fat cows milk to start with so the gradual approach was suggested.  Seems to be working.

Before this plan I did get a bit less obsessive about what else she was eating and she was allowed the odd bit of something with milk in it.  She's always eaten normal bread too which also contains milk so we reckon it was a qunatity thing.  My lactose intolerance is ok if I have certain types of milk and certain quantities but I cant drink a glass or have it on my cereal.  I know lactose and MSPI are different though. 

We haven't tried soya yet as this gave her the worst of the reactions as a baby, but again, she does eat bread containing soya and has probably had bites of other things too.

As for her cereal - she eats it dry at the moment as she wont take it off a spoon!

We were also worried about confusing her MSPI symptoms with teething too, but I guess we'll just keep trying.

Hope everyone elses challenges are going well.

Pamela