Anyone else on an elimination diet (Fed up or RPAH?)

[Katet]

I read this post because of the RPAH part (having worked there for 12 years).

This might sound weird but are potatoes in your diet, I had a collegue who was being tested for food allergies & the "base food was potatoes, because they are SO low allergy... well that is what she was allergic to & she'd BF (with reflux) her first child & this all happened before her 2nd & low & behold no issues with her #2, turns out her & her children can't eat potato.
So it maybe something like garlic that is an issue.

[EloysH]

Interesting Kate.   I have him booked for scratch tests in Sept.  - can't get any earlier due to his age.  I guess if the garlic and onions being taken out doesn't help, I'll mention that to the dietician and see where we can go from there!  I would hate to take out potatoes, they really are a staple.  But i have been eating potatoes since he was born so touch wood- its not them.

[Gypsymom]

Shannon,  I wish I could answer you questions, I'm not entirely sure how to do the food challenges as I am not up to that bit yet  Tongue Speaking to the dietician on Monday though so will let you know if  I get info on the mechanics of food challenges.   One note though: - for nuts we coudn't use almonds as they are really high in salicylates so would give a confounded result.  Apparantly the choice of off foods for the food challenge is very important.  The booklet I have doesn't describe in detail how to to the challenges!

Thanks! I am still waiting to get in to see a dietician here - Friday is our app't. Don't know how helpful she'll be - EDs don't seem to be oft recommended for some reason. So right now I'm just winging it but at least I'll have food logs etc already prepared so hopefully that's a headstart.

An another note i am really down and shocked today  Sad   Kai has been subtly getting worse since I started the full ED.  His poos have been getting worse and worse too. Last night he woke for an hour 3am -4am refluxing, this morning he actually spat up - rare for him and is clearly uncomfortable, which is from days of the past.  I am really really annoyed that i am trying so hard but STILL problems.

Boo!! You must be terribly frustrated. Would you believe I'm in the same boat? Things started to improve nicely (diapers heading towards yellow, less slime and less often - hurray for heavy wet ones without any bms in them) until Friday eve and since then we've been in "reaction mode"! I've even had some blood specks in the now very green diapers.  I could almost sob as I'm only eating about 15 foods total. However, that day for lunch I did have turkey for the first time since starting this more extreme ED and also brown nice (both foods are supposed to be ok!!) so am avoiding them both again now, just in case. But if that wasn't it, I'm really up the creek. I wonder if a LO can be completely protein intolerant?? However I was/am eating chicken when the trend was better so hopefully that is ok. Sigh.

Welcome, Sara. "Just dairy" is still a really huge commitment. I'm not a meat fan so losing all my yogurt, cheese, etc  was quite a hardship for me (even though I've never been an actual milk drinker, except in tea). But I think it's true what E says - if you can get through the first 2-3 weeks, the 'sting' of it gets easier. And I have to say that taking it out was the 800lb gorilla for us and made a big improvement in the reflux within about 4 days, but as pps have said, it can take 2-3 weeks to get you and Elise clear.

This might sound weird but are potatoes in your diet,

Thanks for popping in, Kate. You never know where your a-ha might come from so little hints are always helpful. For me, potatoes are not allowed, only sweet potatoes.

Jenny, how are you going? I was wondering how you knew to 'stop' at your big 3 groups? I rely so much on the diapers but read recently of a gal who did MSPI only and it took a full six weeks off of both to get really nice looking diapers. Then I had the horrid thought that maybe I've expected improvement in days and have been needlessly (but I really don't think so) taking more and more foods out.

[Edesanja]

Jenny, how are you going? I was wondering how you knew to 'stop' at your big 3 groups? I rely so much on the diapers but read recently of a gal who did MSPI only and it took a full six weeks off of both to get really nice looking diapers. Then I had the horrid thought that maybe I've expected improvement in days and have been needlessly (but I really don't think so) taking more and more foods out.

The clue with both my children was they would fight me while feeding pulling on and off and crying and not wanting to feed. I stopped eating dairy at 3 weeks at the first sign of reflux with DS though so he never did that for dairy (DD started at 4 weeks) but did for eggs. Soy I'm still not certain about since I cut it before eggs. Now I'm not sure if soy AND eggs were the problem or just soy. In a way I don't care much though because soy isn't hard to eliminate for me and I don't miss it.

Reflux was worse before I cut eggs too.

I've found it hard to correlate mucousy nappies with anything. We've got them back now with bad reflux too. I'm not sure why all of a sudden.

[EloysH]

Hi Just a note there is such a thing as withdrawls, when an ED is started their symptoms get worse for about a week or so.  I am wondering if that's whats going on here.  Still to speak to dietician.   Will get that pear muffin recipe too.

[EloysH]

So I spoke to the dietician today, not a consultation, just a phone call to ease my worries.  She said to expect 2 weeks of withdrawls where bubs reflux and poos will be a bit worse than they were not on the diet.  She said not to expect major improvement until the 4th week      

We talked about me eating the onion & garlic  family and she agreed to go easy on them traditionally they should only cause more farts and burps but because Kais gut is probably irritated from the intolerances, its like rubbing sandpaper into the wound 

I need to eat prtein for breakfast, so today I made up some chicken rissoles, chicken mince, ground rice puffs, egg replacer, diced shallot, carrot and celery lightly fried in canola oil.  All frozen and ready for breakfast!

Also made vanilla cookies for emergency snacks.

[EloysH]

sorry shannon, we didnt get time to discuss food challenges 

[Gypsymom]

She said to expect 2 weeks of withdrawls where bubs reflux and poos will be a bit worse than they were not on the diet.  She said not to expect major improvement until the 4th week   Shocked

Oh my goodness! I am only eating about a third of my allowed foods as I just assumed any reactions were related to foods consumed within the last 4-24 hours. After a day of heavy wet diapers with no poops and better than average naps, we had a couple of nasty looking ones. I checked my log and the only thing I could come up with is that I boiled some rice pasta in the same pot as the wheat pasta I gave my son (and then separated them and rinsed them so I thought that would be ok). I was pretty sure wheat is not an issue for us, but now I'm not sure.

Protein for breakfast sounds brilliant. Once my biz trip is behind me, I am going to be keen to follow your program or similar as I have nothing on which to base any type of recipes... just eating nearly the same thing for B, L, D everyday. And i know it shouldn't matter, but I am so MAD that I am not thin from all this yet!

DH just keeps saying that LO is doing much better in nearly every other way besides the diapers so he thinks I should eat more of the foods from the list and stop worrying about the poops so much.

Hope things settle down for K soon, but keep trusting your instincts, E.

[EloysH]

Hey Shannon,

I received another email from the other dietician in the practice today:

"As for withdrawal, we say it usually occurs around middle to end of the first week on the diet, and can last up to a week (or more sometimes with behavior), then symptoms should start to resolve and an overall improvement should be seen.
As for the eggs, If you have cooked with eggs before and no reaction then it probably isn’t the eggs, however if you don’t normally use them then it definitely could be eggs and I would be avoiding those too (you can use Orgran egg replacer –it’s called no egg.)
Symptoms can definitely be consistent with mucousy poos or changing stools, worsening skin ,sleep and behavior."


Shannon, after reading the dieticians advice, I think that any reactions once the diet has been started have to be ignored for two weeks. In any event we are eating non reactive foods, so in theory they shouldn't be causing such problems.  I was just questioning eggs and garlic/leeks  because I had NOT been eating those before and the diet includes them. 

I think there is no allergy or intolerance reason to cut brown rice.  Turkey is high in amines and NOT allowed on my diet. 
 I looked up the doctor Sears diet, there is no mention as the why the foods in the allowed areas are included and why others are not. It doesn't talk about amines, glutamates, and salicylates in foods.  It just says that babies uncommonly react to fruits and vegetables and gives a few to avoid.  Some of those are high in salicylates but it's only a selected few of the very high salicylate foods.  I am might be missing a major resource area, I only found about one page of information. 

You are amazing to stick it out with such little variety.  I am saved by my recipes and resources my two diet cookbooks are my bibles. 

[Gypsymom]

turkey is high in amines and NOT allowed on my diet.

Finally going to see the dietician today! Too bad it's only in a smallish town - she may look at me like some type of nutcase for eating so few foods. I am getting worried that my milk quality is going down and I know I have almost nothing for iron. His nibs had another rx - this time to beets or yellow zucchini/courgette? I guess the former is more likely even though both are on the list - which as you say is perhaps more anecdotal than systematic...

[scarlettsmom]

(((hugs))) to all of you!  You're doing great!!  I know how hard it is to be on an ED, I did it for a long time and although it gets easier and you see your LO feeling better, sometimes it is just so hard to deal with the limitations. 

Gypsymom - regarding your milk quality - are you saying you're afraid that the nutrients in your BM are declining?  The reason I ask is that I had the same fears (I was on 5 foods for several months as we figured out my DD2s many food allergies/intolerances).  One thing our ped allergist told me was that the baby will still get all of the great stuff from BM even if we aren't eating the nutrients - they take it from our bodies (i.e., calcium).  The issue is to the impact on OUR bodies.  I was not consistent about taking a calcium supplement and it really took a toll on my body. 

That is so interesting about the withdrawals when starting an ED.  I wish I would have known that!

Keep up the great job ladies!!   

[Gypsymom]

Keep up the great job ladies!!   

Thank you, Tari! I feel like so many people think this is a fool's errand - today, DH's BFF (an ER doc) said that it's all a bunch of rubbish (well, actually he swore) and that I should just relax and give it time. DH seems to switch between believing that the ED is really working and forgetting it's even an issue (the guy offered me a grilled cheese sandwich tonight when he knows very well that I can't eat any one part of it!).

Re: milk quality... I'm not worried about calcium, etc for babe, but rather that the fat content of the milk is decreasing. Mind you it has been very hot here lately so maybe that alone accounts for the watery looking milk. Canwi (I should know her name!) suggested trying to consume more dietary fat, so I will give that a go. I've been worrying about losing the baby weight, but I'm glad that I've got some reserves (isn't it funny that as you get thinner, the boobs seem to look even bigger!?).

As for the dietician, she gave me a different allergenicity chart (apparently raw carrots are pretty bad although cooked ones are usually fine - news to me!) and suggested I stick to about 5 foods for several days to establish a baseline and then add foods back one at a time. This sort of contradicts your ladies' advice, Eloise (of weeks, not days). Anyways, I've decided not to change too much now until after we get back from our biz trip in a couple of weeks. S is mostly doing okay, not symptom free, but decent.

How are you doing, Sara?

[EloysH]

Thanks for the encouragement Tara!

Shannon lets try and get to the bottom of the contradiction. I hope its just different diets and and thus contradicting info!    Everywhere I read about the diet I'm doing is that the withdrawl period is weeks, so its not just the dieticians.   It must be something specific to the diet.  I think what's going on, is that the RPAH elimination diet is for both allergy foods and intolerant foods, not just allergy foods.   So the withdrawls and long period of getting better is to do with the natural and artifical food chemicals being withdrawn from the body - salicylates, glutamates, amines, additivies, preservatives.    All the foods eaten are non- allergic and moderate in ALL of the natural food chemicals present.  the way they are cooked is important to, and freshness - for instance, Can only eat the few allowed fish and meats on the day it is bought otherwise amine content gets too high.  Left overs cannot be eaten unless frozen on the day it is cooked.

What are the 5 foods that you are eating  now? And how are you allowed to cook them?
Good luck for the business trip.  I hope that the baseline comes quickly for you.

[Gypsymom]

Hurray for the good night, E.!

Wow. That is really interesting about the cooking/freshness stuff. They didn't give me any guidance on that kind of thing (except telling me to cook the carrots), but I think that you are right - other than MSPI, this dietician is only concerned with allergen foods. From what I understand about intolerances is that they are like a drug reaction, so the dose (ie. the amount of the offending food) makes a big difference. Up until now I have been eating avocados nearly every day (as they are on the Sears list) but now I find out that they are actually quite likely to be a problem! As for going down to 5 foods, she suggested I cut out rice too and make lamb my only meat but I just couldn't face that right now, so I compromised (especially since I really don't believe rice is a problem) and am now eating rice and rice milk, chicken, cooked carrots, cooked zucchini (both in sunflower oil), babyfood pears, sweet potato, and cooked, peeled peaches. After 72 hours on this, S is doing well and the diapers today look much better.

I feel like your program is much more organized though so today I got lucky and found a used copy of Friendly Food on amazon. After my trip, I'll see about going your route - I think my doc here will be supportive of whatever path I want to take. By then, you should be onto challenges and can give me a heads up I am so thankful for these conversations on BW - I really think I might have lost my everloving mind by now otherwise!!

 

[EloysH]

If you PM your address I will send you a copy of the booklet that goes with friendly food.  It will take a 12 days or so to get to the US from here though!  'Friendly food' is the cookbook, the booklet has shopping lists food charts, menu plans and eating guide basically tell you how to do the diet, the cookbook is supporting document.   

All your foods look good,  peeled zucchinis, sweet potato and carrots are moderate in salicylates not low.  So if LO can tolerate those at least you know you don't need to do a 'low salicylate diet. The zucchinis with skin are high salicylate though, so beware if you get a reaction after 5-7 days it might be a build up of salicylates.   Just don't eat the skin.  With cooked chicken if you eat the skin, its high in amines (just the skin), so again, if you get a reaction after 6 days or so, hopefully its not amine build  up - just don't eat the skin!   Maybe substitute the zucchinis for white potato or else green means.  Green beans are "low" in everything.