Question on sleep cycles/Short naps

[Violets Mum]

Ok, so if a baby can sleep "through the night" and not wake up after each 45-minute sleep cycle, then why can't they do it for naps during the day?
So far, I've read in order to extend a nap to try W2S and watch the baby during sleep and soothe through the end of the cycle. Won't this make baby dependant on you to help them through the cycle?

[davidswife06]

I'm fairly new to this site, but your question is exactly what brought me here:  SHORT naps!  I used HTTJ for 2.5 weeks for EVERY nap (even went cold turkey with the paci during that time).  Starting on Saturday, my daughter has taken naps on her own.  She'll wake up for a minute or two after some sleep cycles, but she's now able to get herself through to the next one. 

The first few days, I had to HTTJ many times during one sleep cycle.  By the following week, I only had to hold once during the nap.  Now, less than three weeks in, I don't have to do anything (she's napping as I type this!). 

I had the same fear as you, that she would become dependent on me, but she didn't! 

BTW, your DD is adorable!  Riley Grace has the same onesie. 

[Violets Mum]

So, davidswife06, when you put her down, are you still holding her to sleep? I've been doing that now for a few weeks but DD still needs to me help her get to sleep. She is doing pretty well through the night now at least and some days her naps are 90 minutes but for the most part, she wakes after 45. I just observed her on her current nap, and just like the book says, she jolted awake at the 45 minute mark. I caressed her head for a few minutes and she went back to sleep and now I'm starting to wonder if she needs me to do that now. Could you tell me exactly what you were doing and when you were doing it? We've come a long way but still a WIP!
Your LO is adorable!

[Shiv52]

I think with HTTJ you put your hands on your LO before they get to that point and then hold through the jolts and transition to the next sleep cycle.  The aim is to not let her get totally awake.  Doing this rather than her jolting awake and then stroking her head to get her back over is less of a prop and easier to fade.  So a lot of mums hold arms and legs from about 35 minutes until the jolting has passed and they are in the next cycle.   Make sense?

As pp says it can take 2-3 weeks for it to work and for them to make the leap to transition themselves.  Is your LO swaddled? 

[Violets Mum]

No, she's not swaddled...hated it from the beginning!

[Shiv52]

Yeah mine did too!  Didn't help with the jolting! 

[Mama2boys]

joining in, will start HTTJ from today and see if it works, but same quetsion DS sleeps better at night than day..not that I am complaining....

[Shiv52]

Alot of the time it can be developmental.  It seems at 3-4 months lots of LOs do 45 minute naps.  I know I did w2s at 4 months for weeks and then just decided to live with the short naps for a while and at 5.5 months it all seemed to fall into place.  Don't know if it was just that she was ready for longer A times or the move to a 4 hour EASY or just that extra month made a difference.  I did extend but set a 10-15 minute limit and if it didn't work then we just got on with the day.  SOmetimes you have to work out what is going to work for you and go with it.  For me I did wake to sleep and then extended but beyond that I just decided there wasn't much else I could do at that point.   We generally had good nights though (slept from 10.30 feed to 5am feed then to 8am) so I didn't mind the day sleep being haphazard. 

Its good to have a plan but to not beat yourself up if the longer nap doesn't happen at this age.  So I'd say Mukta, if you HTTJ and/or extend for a set time if he wakens (hard with another LO in the house to do it for very long) then you're doing well.  If it works FAB, if not just shorten the next A time a bit and see how you go with the next nap.  What is the little man's current A ?  I don't think Maeve was doing more than 1.5 at that age, less after a short nap.

HTH xx

[Edesanja]

Shiv, can you give an idea of what your day looked like then on days when Maeve only took 45 minute naps? How long did you shorten the next A time by? It must have meant 4 naps is that right? Or 3 and an early bedtime?

[~Emma~]

Ok, so if a baby can sleep "through the night" and not wake up after each 45-minute sleep cycle, then why can't they do it for naps during the day?

 The thought behind this is that its developmental. LO's spend the first few months of their lives organising nightsleep and after that then they sort out daysleep....ie the 45 min nap monster!

 I believe that it is fully developmental as it always occurs in bubs at pretty much the same age. I did HTTJ for 3 weeks and I believe it helped to quicken the transition with DS to take fuller, more restorative naps.

[Shiv52]

Yeah there are too many bubs go through this at 3-4 months for it not to be developmental.  The W2S worked for us at 4-5 months to get through the sleep cycle just like HTTJ worked for Emma. 

Shiv, can you give an idea of what your day looked like then on days when Maeve only took 45 minute naps? How long did you shorten the next A time by? It must have meant 4 naps is that right? Or 3 and an early bedtime?

I honestly can't remember totally but I know I did 4 naps, not earlier to bed.   

So it would have been:

8am:  Wake up and feed (1.5 hours after good night sleep, at 3 months she slept 10.30 ish -5am (feed) then to 8am)
9.30am:  Nap  (Generally would have got 1.15-1.30 here)
11am:  Wake up and feed
           1.5 A time
12.30pm:  45 minute nap
1.15pm:  A time
2pm Feed
2.30pm Nap  (so overall was 1.15 A time...prob bit long but couldn't do much else with the feed..DD always tried to
       fall asleep on the breast at this stage)
       45 minute nap
3.15pm  A time  (this is where it got messy....1 hour A time)
4.15pm  Nap (generally 45 minutes again)
5pm Feed followed by A time-1 hour altogether
6pm  Catnap (well supposedly!)-sometimes in car, sometimes in DH's arms
6.45pm  Bedtime routine etc
7.45/8pm  Last feed and bed

10.30ish DF

5am Night feed

8am Wake up next day


The mornings were always better.  If I could get that 12.30 nap extended the rest of the day went better.  If not it seemed the OT kicked in and that was it for the day.  The A time I wrote includes the 15 minutes I would have spent ssh-patting in an attempt to extend too if W2S didn't work.  And to be honest as our nights were good I didn't so much mind the naps. 

As an aside Emma...have you given thought to how we're going to do this when we have two?!!!  I can't imagine DD letting me ssh-pat for 5 minutes let alone 15!!!

     

[Violets Mum]

Well, where did I go wrong yesterday/last night?! Because DD had 2 45-minute naps yesterday, I helped her sleep longer for the third with HTTJ. She ended up sleeping from 3:30 to 6:00! Longest nap ever! But then last night she woke at 1am and didn't get back to sleep till 3! I gave her a bottle after a while in case she was hungry but she still couldn't get to sleep. She wasn't being hyper or silly and awake, but more like trying to sleep but something was bothering her and she couldn't quite get there. Was the late, long nap to blame???

[Shiv52]

What was the EASY for the full day?

Did you do HTTJ for all naps yesterday?

[~Emma~]

As an aside Emma...have you given thought to how we're going to do this when we have two?!!!  I can't imagine DD letting me ssh-pat for 5 minutes let alone 15!!!

 I am just hoping that God blesses me with a 100% Angel baby. Otherwise not a chance! I dont know if I'm happy or sad that I wont be embarking on those marathon sh-pat sessions!

 

[Shiv52]

I am just hoping that God blesses me with a 100% Angel baby.  Otherwise not a chance! I dont know if I'm happy or sad that I wont be embarking on those marathon sh-pat sessions!

LOL!!  Thats what I've ordered!  An angel baby who LOVES to sleep day and night!  So i'll have no need for any ssh-patting or HTTJ!!!  Haven't caught up in ages...I'll PM you xx