Support thread for raising touchy babies - part 2

[weaver]

Do you sit with them and shh/pat until asleep etc then gradually use less shh/pat or put them down more awake and shh/pat in the cot

That's what I did at this stage.  I also had to HTTJ at 20 mins but then we were set for a good nap, until an A time bump was needed.

Just don't expect too much of sh-pat (or yourself) if there's any chance he's uncomfortable, as I think there might be?

((HUGS))

[nurse2003]

Hi all
Have a 6mo old touchy baby and I need routine structure and sleep!!!
He is LO number three.

I have this thread here so any support anyone can give me for best ways to get him sleep trained please!!!!

first 24hrs, are we on the right track? QUESTIONS (routine, short naps, pu/pd)

[HouseManagerMommy]

Hi there,
First time mama of a touchy/spirited 4.5 month old little girl here looking for some support, and assurance that it does get better.

Have started reading back into the posts on this touchy thread, and it has helped a lot. Having a really tough time reading her cues especially for sleep, and whether I read it right or not she only takes a 30-45 min nap, its just whether it takes a half hour to get her to sleep or 5 mins. She just recently (within the last 2 weeks) started drawing out her A times to 1.5-2 hours, which is great as she is more interactive, but because she does want/need a lot of face time, I feel stretched very thin when, after 2 hours she only sleeps for a half hour. We use the carrier toward the end of her A time to transition/calm down, and that seems to be working well (she HATED it with a passion until 3 weeks ago). I have been cautioned numerous times against white noise, and black out blinds. the general theme seems to be that they're a prop that will have to be used forever. Would REALLY like an opinion on this.

We also have reflux issues, which seemed to be under control by me cutting out dairy, caffeine and acids (citrus and tomatoes). That is until last week, when she started spitting up again very frequently, being more gassy, and uncomfortably fussy. This was also on the heels of her first two teeth coming through (yeah, there's been a lot going on). She has also developed eczema on her cheeks and legs...which leads me to thinking there is something else in my diet that might be causing that. The thought of cutting more out of my diet is frustrating as I feel so limited as it is. I talked to her Dr. and they aren't inclined to do allergy testing on a baby so young, especially one who is EBF. She has always done this gagging choking thing, which scares the crap out of me, especially when it happens in the car....dr chalked it up to excess drool because of teething, which I willing to accept, its just still so nerve wracking.

We have just recently needed to begin nursing in a darkened, quiet room. She is completely distracted, and won't eat completely if the tv is on, people are talking, etc. This makes going places difficult....does this change at all?

We have had our successes: We no longer need the swing to sleep, and she takes all of her naps in her crib. She is giving me 3 hours of sleep at night at a time in her co sleeper (would REALLY like to extend this, but all in good time) and she is often able to play independently for longer than 10 mins.

Things I have learned that might help other mothers:
Shh/pat does not work, at all. Too distracting

Low humming works well, an intermittent mmm hmm, or uh huh

We swaddled until 4 months for naps, and still half swaddle for nighttime. She started to roll over this last weekend, so we'll be watching her closely.

Oddly enough she does NOT like to co sleep. This must be her spirited side coming through.

Until recently, she didn't like to be held to sleep either. She wanted to be helped to sleep in her crib. Now, if I've missed a cue, or am trying to resettle her after a jolt, I can pick her up and lightly bounce. Basically, a modified pu/pd.

It is possible to desensitize a touchy baby to sounds, somewhat. I have spent many nap times helping her through (a heavy hand on chest and a hand on head, or pressure on shoulders) neighbor dogs barking (each different bark caused startling and waking), garbage truck (this one is still difficult for her, since its only once a week, but is getting better), the neighbor kid revving engines, and using air tools, the garage door opening (right under her room), me putting clothes away in her room, me talking while putting her down for a nap, car horns, etc. It seems that once a sound becomes familiar it no longer causes a jolt.

She sleeps with her head turned to one side, and I have to be sure to face her toward the wall. Even with no art on the walls, and very simple items in the room (crib, dresser, rocking chair, mirror, side table, ottoman) its almost like the room is too stimulating for her and facing her toward the wall helps with that.

I'm going to keep reading through the thread, and I'm sure I"ll find more things that resonate for us. Thanks for reading

[weaver]

Hello lovey, I'm off to bed right now, will be back but wanted to suggest you also have a look or even post on the reflux board too as sounds like that's a serious issue for her (and you).

[*Ali*]

Hi HouseManagerMummy. Did you post on the reflux board?

Regarding white noise and blackout blinds I would just use them if they help. I used white noise until my DS2 (my touchy one) was 15mo. I just stopped it cold turkey when he moved into his older brother's room as big bro never used it (he fell asleep listening to lullabies but they turned themselves off after half an hour or so). My boys still sleep with blackout blinds now at 3yo and almost 5yo but I don't see it as a problem. Loads of people complain their kids wake early in the summer when the sun comes up at stupid o'clock but blackout blinds solve that issue. Some people I know have just gradually turned the white noise down over a matter of weeks until they stopped using it altogether. I've never heard of it being a problem long-term. To me that is a bit like saying down use a carrier or nappies as you will want to stop using them at some point. It really does sound to me that white noise and blacking out the room would benefit her since she seems very sensitive to the environmental noises and light in the room over stimulating her.


I would definitely ask the dr about a trial of meds for the reflux. And maybe keep a food diary to see if there are any obvious links between the foods you eat and the flare ups. Try to remember the elimination diet you need to do will only be until you wean her, it isn't forever. If you suspect she is in pain from a food intolerance (or worse an allergy) then I think you do need to try to cut that food out of her diet as well.

I'm not sure that the distraction gets less but obviously they do nurse less as they get older so you will soon find that you can feed her and the have time to be out between feeds.

Not sure what you mean by half swaddle exactly but if either arm is still in I would wean it now she can roll as it is too dangerous.

[~Jen~]

Hello! My DD2 is 6 weeks old and a very touchy LO.  I have a really hard time settling her for naps and BT.  Thankfully she sleeps well at night for now.  I'm working on reading her cues and finding her window but she is really hard to read.  I'm sure I am missing her window and she just screams when I try and put her down.  She is my 3rd and we have a very busy house -  I'm sure she is OS/OT most of the time.  I've resorted to AP most every nap in the carrier or pram because it takes so long to settle her and I can't ignore my other 2 LOs.  I try for 1 nap in her moses basket at this point.  Am I creating big problems for myself later on with all these props?  I just can't find any other way to get her to sleep and she becomes so OT.  IS it ok just to survive at this point or should I be trying to create better sleep habits?

[weaver]

She's only 6 weeks so I totally wouldn't panic about *how* she's sleeping, but focus on getting her to sleep and avoiding OT. So I'd definitely go with AP naps.  Given she's touchy, I'd focus on that, and on reducing her stimulation when you think she needs that.  She may often be happy just to sit in her chair, or lie on the floor, and look at everything that's going on, and not need toys etc.  Also the sling is brilliant for that, she can hide her head, have a calming cuddle and so on.  It's great that you are aware of her touchiness, so you can look for ways to work with her.

At this age, getting E-A-S going, however loosely, and trying for one nap in the moses basket, is just perfect  

[~Jen~]

Thank you!!  It is great to have some reasuurance - it has been a while for me.. Her crying throughout the day has made it difficult on everyone at home so I just desparately want to keep OT away for now.  I'm working on getting some blackout blinds and white noise.  I'm still rocking her to sleep for her one sleep in the basket.  I figure there will be time to work on her independent sleeps?? When she wakes early from the sleep in the basket - should I try and extend and if that doesn't work just pop her into the carrier? She loves the Ergo which works well for both of us - I can be out with DS &DD1.  Thanks again!

[weaver]

Ah LO1 loved his carrier too!  Positively refused to go in the buggy! 

I'd pop her in the carrier if she wakes early.  Is she swaddled?  LO1 also adored being swaddled and loved his dummy. 

And I'd plan on trying to work on naps when she gets to about 3 mos.  Think about how your day flows with the other LOs, or if there's time coming up when you'll have support at home for a week or so.  Pick a good time for you, rather than putting yourself under pressure.  No point in doing things half-heartedly. 

[~Jen~]

Yes she is swaddled but is so hard to settle.  I think the OS/OT creeps in so easily and it just makes it really hard for her to relax.  It takes about 20-30 minutes to get her off to sleep in my arms. When I do try and get her sleepy before putting her down for a sleep, her eyes keep popping open.  It is so frustrating!  When I just get her to sleep in my arms, and she wakes early she is impossible to settle.     When I was starting out with my others I would get them sleepy in my arms and then lay them down and they would drift off.  It just doesn't work with DD2, she keeps "waking up".   

Do Touchy babies have short A times?  She is 6 weeks now and consistenly does her first yawn at 35 minutes but I read average A times are about 1-1:15hr?

How can you get touchy babes to sleep on their own? I tried yesterday to put her down drowsy but awake and after trying to shh/pat her she got really upset, escalated quickly and even when I picked her up it became impossible to calm her down.   I'm going to have a lot of OT days unless it gets easier when they are a bit older and not so sensitive?

[weaver]

when they are a bit older and not so sensitive

this was not my experience.  LO1 is still a sensitive soul which is amazing a lot of the time.

I tried yesterday to put her down drowsy but awake and after trying to shh/pat her she got really upset, escalated quickly and even when I picked her up it became impossible to calm her down.   

Yup, LO1 would never have gone down like that at that age.  There was no way he would have settled on his own, he would've screamed blue murder.  So it's not you, don't worry.

Touchies tend to love their routine, and get OT very quickly.  With LO1 I did a lot of clockwatching.  He was bang on average sleep needs, but needed a long wind-down.  So perhaps plan on wind-down (or at this stage, a lot of the time, putting her in the carrier) about 10 mins or so before you think she needs to sleep. I also had the last portion of A time as a quiet time, so toys were put away, and he just looked around, or at me, or out the window or whatever.   I was lucky in the sense that my touchy one was my first, so I was able to spend a lot of time helping him sleep.  I know you have a lot of other things going on but hopefully we can help.  Average A times for 6 week olds is about 1 hr 15, so I'd try calming things down around the hour mark and take it from there.

6 weeks is still so very young.  Are you bfing?  Not sure if it also works with bottles but I wouldn't mind too much about feeding her to sleep if it gets you through the OT.   AP when you need to, OT is the enemy here!

[~Jen~]

Thanks for your reply - I felt so much better today knowing the AP is ok.  I just did what I had to do to get her to sleep - carrier, car seat, rocking at home. I even got a nap in the cot today- I had to rock her and she didn't sleep more than 20 mins but at least she didn't scream the house down.  I am BFing her so I used that at BT and got her really sleepy and then rocked her until asleep.  Very little cry8ing which was so much better than last night when she cried nearly 2 hours at BT. 
Does the OT/OS cause bigger jolts at 20mins.  I was watching her sleep today and her jolts at 20mins were really reallybig - I'm not surprised she woke herself up. I tried to HTTJ but it didn't work.  I'm not sure I can swaddle her any tighter. Any other tricks?
How did you get your touchy baby to sleep independently? Is it just slowly slowly over time? I really need her to start to learn so I can spend time with my older ones but it seems like she is not at all ready for that.   

[newkidontheblock]

Hi there. Wondering if I could get some been there/done that advice here. We weaned DD of her swaddle a month ago and after the initial week of difficulties, she started taking her naps in her crib - just needing a heavy sheet over her. But we are currently in a wonder week, which is playing havoc with sleep. I was wondering if anyone could share their techniques/methods for soothing/resettling their touchy babies. None of our usual methods are working as she no longer settles with patting, rubbing and even PU/PD hasn't been working. She is textbook/spirited but I feel that she is extra sensitive to stimulation.

[weaver]

Jen, how are you getting on?  I wanted to say I always fed to sleep at BT just do it, and don't feel bad   I do think, yes, that OS and OT cause bigger jolts.  You might need to put a bit of pressure on her arms, I suppose. In this weather you could also maybe tuck a blanket over her? Are you swaddling her or are you using a swaddle that you've bought? There are so many different types, and there's also this 'unbreakable' Aussie swaddle as it's called.
Swaddling Technique (aka "Aussie swaddle")

How did you get your touchy baby to sleep independently? Is it just slowly slowly over time? I really need her to start to learn so I can spend time with my older ones but it seems like she is not at all ready for that.

All babies are individuals, hun, so there's no knowing what your DD will get up to.  For my LO1 it was a slow process of being super consistent with his wind-down and rock solid on routine.  He was sleeping independently by 5 mos, with some bumps thereafter.  But he loved his swaddle, his dummy, and his epic wind-down so I worked with those.  With your DD, obviously you've got to work with the circs you're in.  So I think you're already doing brilliantly even to be aware that she needs this extra bit of care is wonderful, I think.  If a sling nap works for her, then do what I did with LO2, start her in her cot, and if and when she wakes, pop her in the sling so she can keep napping.  Try not to fixate on 'how to get her to sleep independently' as she really is very young for that, even for a non-touchy baby.  Since she's a touchy, your mission needs to be getting her to sleep.  You're doing really well with coming up with options. 

Fleur, WW are of course madness.  Outside of that, I'd say maybe try reducing her stimulation before nap time, super low key just before it's time for sleep.  And when she needs resettling, don't touch her if that doesn't work.  I've found sitting on the floor by the cot, rather than standing over it, is a much better visual cue, and patting the mattress and saying softly that it's time to lie down.  Let her do whatever craziness she needs to but just exude calm and repeat 'time to lie down' (or whatever you say).  Keep eye contact to a minimum but be a soothing presence.  If she's sensitive to stimulation, avoid PU/PD like the plague.  Once he lay down, I would just lay a hand on my LOs back if needed, not patting, just a warm, gentle pressure, bit like a hug

If you're open to the idea, lavender essential oil in an oil burner in your living space may help her have a calmer awake time too.

[~Jen~]

Thanks for checking in on me.  I'm doing ok.  I've never appreciated how very hard a touchy baby can be.  But little by little each day I am learning more and more about her and what she needs.  She started smiling which melts my heart and makes all the crying more bearable.     It helps to have the reassurance to feed her to sleep - I am so used to thinking to try and avoid that if possible when my other ones were little.  Tonight she cried/screamed at BT for 45 minutes.  She actually had a decent day napping but the OT must have snuck in at BT and I didn't notice.  Her A time is always a bit long at BT but it is just impossible while also putting my older ones to bed. So tonight I just swaddled her tight (I have a light weight blanket that works well although I will check out the Aussie swaddle you mention), held her close to my chest and gently swayed/rocked with her in a dark room to get her to calm down.  She was so worked up.  I guess this would have been one of those times I should have just fed her to calm her down? 

I was so happy she napped in her car seat today for an hour!  Small victory as it was not the carrier so I could do some things around the house while she slept.   

That is really helpful to hear about how routine was so important.  Was it the actual times that was important or did you find just the routine of what comes next was reassuring?  I'm struggling with her A time - I just can't extend her without her screaming before sleeping.  She still yawns at 35mins and seems to need to be asleep by about 55mins.  I have to work on her wind-down routine.. it is definitely helping.  What did yours consist of? DS also liked this but can't remember what I used to do.   

I haven't tried her on a dummy - neither of my other 2 would take one.  Do you think it could help her?