NW and flailing limbs - 16 weeks

[Jakes_mummy]

My lovely 16 week old son is driving me mad at night!

We have adopted a slightly different routine for the past two nights but have so far noticed no differences so i'll detail both routines:

Original plan: 7pm bath
                   7.45 bottle
                    8.30 - 8.45 bed
       
Now in all honesty he rarely actually fully wakes, but he claws at his face, sucks/chews his fingers and repeatedly raises his legs and bangs them down hard on the matress. This generally starts at around 1am and will happen up to 8 or 9 times over the next hour or so and can go on til 2.30am ish.

He then starts the same thing again around 3.30am. This time it tends to go on for less time, maybe 20 to 30 minutes. He then starts up again at around 4.30 and this is when I get up to feed him. He usually only took around half of feed at this time so I decided that maybe he didn't really need a feed during the night so we changed the routine 2 days ago to the following:

New plan: 5.30pm bath
               6.15 bottle
               7pm bed

               10.30pm dreamfeed

So far he has taken quite well to the earlier bed time - I definitely think we were keeping him up too long previously as he would start getting grumpy and OT after his bath.

The dreamfeed has had the same results as the middle of the night feed did, he will only take around half.

Despite a change in his routine he is still flailing around at the same times in the night, only now its much worse. How can I get him to sleep more soundly and in turn get a better nights sleep for myself? Since birth he has never gone more than 3.5 hours in one stretch.


What’s his daily routine?
                             7.30/7.45/8.00 - bottle (FF)
                             8.30 - 9.30 - Activity (nappy, wash/dressed, playmat or chair)
                             9.45 - 10.10 - Nap (woefully short)
                             10.20 - 11.15 - Activity
                             11.15 - bottle
                             11.45 - Activity (nappy only)
                             12.00 - 12.30 - Nap
                             12.40 - 2.45 - Activity
                             2.45 - bottle
                             3.15 - 4.00 Activity
                             4.00 - 4.30 - nap
                             4.35 - 5.30 - quiet time, sitting on sofa.
                             5.30 - bath
                             

What’s nap routine?

Cuddle on the sofa then upstairs to the bedroom. Cuddle while sitting on the bed for a few minutes before being gently lowered into cot while still slightly awake. He usually jerks awake as soon as he touches the matress but putting his dummy in and holding his hands usually sends him off within about a minute. I really wish his naps were longer.

How long are naps?

Never any longer than 30 minutes when in his cot. Will go much longer in car seat, pram and while holding.

Do you bottle or breastfed??

Bottle feed only - 5 feeds per day, 6 to 7 oz per feed.

What have you tried to settle??

Gently holding hands still, light pressure on legs. Shh shh. Picking up and cuddling til calm.

What do you do for A time and how long is it?

Anything from playmat to vibrating chair. Singing, reading and general walking round. Most activity time includes some quiet time of sitting together watching tv or LO sitting in his chair in the kitchen while I get a few bits done.


Are there developmental issues such as teething or milestones?
He is really dribbling lately so I suspect he is teething.

Have you introduced cereal? Why, how much, and how many times a day? (for LO’s under 6 months)
No, formula only

Do they have a prop? If so what is it?
Dummy

[BigSkyMama]

Hi there.  My DS is 20 weeks and I totally know what you mean.   I thought I would share a couple of thoughts and ideas that have helped us  .  I think the earlier bedtime is a great idea regardless, once we started on that EASY got much "easier."  Looking at your routine it seems like you really need to get him to hap longer.  How is he when he wakes up from his naps?  Does he cry and still seem sleepy?  He is really only cat napping all day, not enough daytime sleep leads to fussy nights.  Mine did the same thing for a while and I thought maybe he was just a short napper, but once I committed to making him stay down (using shh/pat) for 2 hours he caught on and now is on a textbook 4 hour easy taking 2 two hour naps a day plus a 30 mins catnap at 5:30 and he is STTN (going to be at 7:30, DF at 11, and waking up at 7:30am).  So that would be my first thought is to get him to nap longer during the day.  There are lots of post about this on the nap board for more help in that department.

As far as he is fussy at night, he may just be a fussy sleeper.  If he is not fully waking then I wouldn't worry, its just his way of settling/sleeping.  If he seems to be waking himself you could try swaddling?  Might be kinda late for that if you haven't done already.  My LO was about done with the swaddle at 16 weeks.  We put little mittens on his hand at night so he can't scratch himself so much.   That really seemed to help.  The leg banging thing is pretty common, mind does it too when he is settling himself.
I agree he probally doesn't need the nightime feed unless he is taking a full bottle, in which case you will want to try and feed him more during the day.  He is just getting to the age where he doesn't need that feeding most likely or wont soon.  I always knew that mine needed the food when he took a full bottle at night and a full feeding the morning.  Plus he would  NOT go back to sleep is he was hungry no matter what I tried.

Remember this is a big transition age and things do go crazy for a while.   Try to hang in there, it does get better.


Oh one more thing...does he sleep in his own room?  If not and all this is keeping you awake and not him I would move him out.  My LO was so loud at night he moved into his own room at 2 weeks.  I now sleep across the hall from him and close both of our doors and sometimes even put in ear plugs.  He is just a loud sleeper and I find that if he really needs me I always hear him, LOL!  You might try that and see if you get more sleep.

Good luck, let me know how it goes

[Jakes_mummy]

Hi, thanks for the reply. Things seemed to get a little better since my last post (briefly) but then really went down the pan!

3 nights ago, he slept through for the first time!! I was amazed. Just under 12 hours! I put him down around 7.30pm, didn't bother with the dreamfeed and that was it! He hasn't had a night feed or a dream feed since.

The problem at the minute is teething, I can see the two bottom front teeth just under his gum and they seem to be driving him mad! It's not a lot of fun but we can get through it. The nights have been particularly unsettled and he seems to have "forgotten" how to go to sleep. I really hope it's just a phase.

On the nap front....I know its probably not the ideal scenario but he sleeps much better when he naps in his chair or car seat. I can get anything from an hour to and hour and a half from him which is fab. I'd prefer to have him sleeping in his cot though so it's something I want to work on.

We are having a new carpet fitted in his room on Monday so we plan to kick him out of our bedroom sometime next week. I think you're right, if he's thrashing around in his own room I might have a chance of sleeping through it!

Keep your fingers crossed for me...!

[anna*]

I think he's really overtired, and that really won't help with the nights. Two hours awake after a 30 mins nap is WAY too long - I would aim for an absolute maximum of two hours awake (including feeding time) after a LONG nap or a decent night, and after a short nap you will need to cut that back to 1.5hrs or even less. Keep cutting it back until you get a decent nap!

Have you tried W2S or anything else to extend the naps? I would definitely give pain meds if you think that teething pain is making things worse.

The other thing you coudl think about is introducing a lovey, which could help him to control his arms.

[Jakes_mummy]

Hi

I so agree, he is really overtired but no matter how much I try I just can't extend his naps!

I have tried W2S a couple of times and it failed miserably, he ended up looking at me with his great big eyes and an absolutely BEAMING smile! Once he's smiled, there's no getting him back off, he's properly wide awake. I'll keep trying though, i've just found that if i'm lacking in patience it's never gonna work.

He had a lot of trouble in the night last night with wind. He's thrash around and would then eventually break wind then settle for another hour or two.

I really really want to get back on EASY. I managed it quite well when he was very young but after the nap trouble began it kind of went out of the window

I've been giving him a dose of calpol when he gets really grumbly, it helps a little. I've also got some teething granules to rub on his gums.

I think i'll try what you suggested and actively try to get him to sleep after a period of waking time rather than just watch for his cues. He has really started rushing thorugh his cues lately and its been a struggle to get him down in time.

This whole sleep issue and my lack of sleep is really getting me down. I hope I can sort it out before I lose my mind!

Sorry to have to ask but what's a lovey?

Thanks for the advice guys, x

[anna*]

A lovey is something like a little cuddly toy or a muslin cloth or taggie blankie which they can get attached to for comfort and sleep. When we were weaning the swaddle I gave a little bunny to my LO and would hold his hands onto it as he was falling asleep. Giving his hands something to 'do' seemed to make them less flaily.