Please help. I am at a complete loss!

[beckygatt]

My 16 month old learnt to sleep independently a few months ago, but for the last couple of months at least she has been having problems with NWs and EWs. First she spent ages teething, then got a bit of a cold, and now I don't know whether she is teething again or just being difficult because she's got into bad habits again. She sometimes goes to sleep independently but often cries and I end up having to pick her up and give her a cuddle a few times, (before I used WIWO or just stayed near her without picking her up). Also when she wakes up at night its sometimes just for water but again, she often won't settle until I pick her up. Its been so long now I just don't know if there is still a good reason for the NWs and crying or if its cos of bad habits. DH's solution is 'just get her into our room', but it took me so long to sleep train her I'm reluctant to go back to co-sleeping again!

I'm feeling tired and frustrated. I don't know why she won't sleep! To make matters worse she seems to sleep better at the grandparents. Last weekend we left her there for a night and she slept from 8pm to 7am straight!

I can't believe that 16 months on we're still struggling with sleep :-(

Any thoughts?

[*Becky*]

Hugs,
Could you post your routine for us to see if there is anything that needs tweaking.
I think the way we handle NWings now they are toddlers is really important i.e. could she have become used to the water and the cuddles etc when she wakes at night? I think a really consistent approach to these wakings is important so WIWO with as little interaction as possible.
Have you tried meds in case it is teeth?
bx

[janecharlotte]

I second what henry1 says. I've found that chopping and changing the way we deal with bed time, NW and EW's makes things much more difficult and I've had to be consistent with what we do when DD wakes (as long as she isn't sick or teething). As you have had success in the past with WI/WO and can rule out teeth, it might be a case of sticking it out for a few nights (hopefully not too many) to get her back on track.

[beckygatt]

The problem is I'm not sure if she is teething! Plus she has a bit of a runny nose, on and off. Otherwise I would just use WIWO. Some nights she cries others she seems fine. I just don't know any more. She has had teething then a cold for nearly 2 months now! It seems there is always some 'excuse' IYKWIM! Her routine depends on wake up timee but I aim for 4/4.5hrs A time am then about 4-5hrs pm, depending on her nap. Naps may be 1 or 2, agaain depending on the day. So yesterday was like this:

Wake up - 7am
Nap - 11.15- 1.30
Bed - 6.30 (but cried a while and slept at about 7ish)

Today she woke at 6am after a couple of NWs and went down for nap at about 9.45 (was very tired, couldn't take more A time). So she should have another short nap somehow.

Re meds, I do give her if I think she might be teething, but they don't always stop NWs anyway. E.g. yesterday I gave her neurofen as she was crying a lot before sleeping but she still woke up at 3, 5 and then 6. Sometimes the teeth take so long to  come out I end up giving her meds for days in a row. Only once a day but still....


What do you think?

Thanks for your help! x

[*Becky*]

Have you tried a df meds around the time you go to bed? If she is waking at 3am but sleeping well until then it could well be teeth as the bedtime meds will last quite a while, it does sound like discomfort tbh with the continued wakings. My DS was constantly teething around this age and had a runny nose too, in fact that is how i know he is teething, that and dark circles under his eyes.
I was going to ask if you could push the nap out a little as 4/4.5 hours A is quite low but I guess if teeth are an issue then this could be the reason for the shorter A times.

[Tweakster]

Hi there, agree with Becky, even with teeth I think I would push out the nap to at least 12 noon.  What is her longest nap?  2 hrs or less?

Have you tried to determine why she slept better at the grandparents?  As in longer A times, different routine, room conditions?  Anything stand out?

Do you think she really needs you at night?  Does she really need that water?  Really it's the time for sleeping and not socializing so the less interaction the better.  Will she soothe herself back down if you leave her?  We have found ourselves getting muddled with what is a true cry that needs attending to and what doesn't.  As toddlers a lot of their cries are from their wants rather than needs.  You mention she won't settle unless you pick her up, that's because she's been taught that she will be picked up and that's what she wants.  If you just settle her in the crib without picking her up she will get the idea that she's not getting out of the crib. 

[beckygatt]

I could try df meds, I just hate giving them so often, she'd do small still!

Re nap, it is usually at least 2 hrs long, sometimes even as long as 3. I was consistently aiming for 4.5hrs until about a month or 2 ago, when she started NW and would sometimes be tired sooner. Would you try for a long A time even if she's had a bad night then?

At grandparents can't think of aanything different, except my absence! We'll usually drop her there early evening after a normal day and room conditions and routine are pretty similar.

Does she need me at night? This is my biggest dilemma! Can't always tell if she's teething for sure. I leave water beaker in her cot because it can get really hot here at night. She sometimes wakes up, has a drink, and goes right back to sleep.  But she doesn't always find it herself. She had learnt to put herself back to sleep without me picking her up, but during the long teething episode I wanted to comfort her so I did pick her up. Is this wrong? If in doubt I usually pick her up as I wouldn't want her to be in pain and not comforted. I do wonder if I go to her rescue too quickly though. I usually leave a few seconds then go. Is this too fast? I used to be more sure of her cries, but lately I can't seem to tell :-(


Thanks xxx

[clazzat]

I know you don't want to hear this, but I am inclined to think that you are the problem (sorry!).  I went through this with dd2, and spent nearly a year convincing myself that it was nothing to do with the way I dealt with NWs and that she would sleep through when she could and it was all to do with teeth/OT/OS - you name it!  Eventually I took the plunge and it took 3 nights for her to sleep through and she has done so ever since (with a few exceptions for major OT etc).

Our situation was slightly different in that we had a bed in her room and I would take her into it and sleep with her, but the way I stopped that was firstly to introduce a sleep sheep (a cuddly sheep that plays white noise) while she was in bed with me.  Then after a couple of weeks, I decided that I wasn't going to take her into bed with me - I went and slept in her room after she woke up, but didn't pick her up at all.  The first night she cried for an hour and a half, the second night for about 45 mins and on the third night she grumbled for 20 mins (in a "you're not going to pick me up, are you?" kind of way).  And she has slept through since then - I didn't even have to do wiwo or pupd.  I know that you are cosleeping, but perhaps you could try introducing something like the sleep sheep when you go to give her a cuddle and once it is familiar to her you can go in and put on the sheep and reassure her with your voice without picking her up.  After that, you can try just putting on the sleep sheep and leaving (this is what I do on the occasions when dd2 does wake up) - and hopefully she will have given up long before this as she won't be getting what she wants.

Hope this is helpful.  Cx

[beckygatt]

Maybe I am part of the problem.... Certainly I spent the first year of her life telling myself shewould STTN when she was ready. But then I realised it wasn't going to happen and I took action. At about 11months I did sleep training using a method very similar to what you describe. And it worked! She started STTN regularly and she was doing so well; we stopped the co-sleeping completely! Then she started teething again. She'd wake up crying and wouldn't settle with just my voice like she usually did. I was advised that if she was teething or sick I should comfort her rather than leave her in cot as usual. The teething dragged on for ages, then she got a cold and she hasn't quite got back on track. Now I suspect she's teething again and this is my dilemma. How to handle NWs. She still falls asleep independently, especially at nap times. She doesn't co-sleep now (I really don't want to go there again!). She has a white noise machine but never adopted a lovey. The only object of comfort is her paci.

I've given meds and am  about to do a df med. Fingers crossed! Will let you know in the morning ;-)

[*Becky*]

how did you get on?

[beckygatt]

So I gave her meds at 7, bed at 8.30 cos she had a long afternoon nap. She woke briefly at 11 but settled easily. At 11.30 I gave df meds. At 3 I heard her wake briefly but settled right away. At 5 she woke and didn't settle so I had to go in. I went in again at 5.30 then she slept till 7.45. Later than usual. So today won't be a problem stretching morning A till 12 at least. How much A time should I aim for? Should it be shortened after a bad night? If she is teething should I pick her up or not?! And how long should I wait before going in when she cries?

Sorry for all the questions!

Thanks x

[*Becky*]

ok so a better night then
I would def continue with that for a couple more days and see how you go. I also really hate giving meds but tbh if they are NWing and not getting their rest that is not good either. it is great she settled herself twice
I think today she could do a normal A time but yes if she has had a bad night with many or long NWings you will need to shorten the A time.

And how long should I wait before going in when she cries?

This is a very hard question to answer. There is not a set time. If and when DS cries out in the night I listen but I do not go in straight away. I don't time it so I don't know exactly, with this it really is a gut 'mummy' feeling. 9/10 my LO will settle himself and the worst thing I could do is to go in. I listen and if it is a very distressed cry or if he is not self soothing I go in but tbh I try to stay out.
I never pick him up unless I am giving meds. I have tried to give meds in his cot and it never works if he is awake and I just end up spilling it!
Does that help?
bx

[Charlotte74]

What does DF meds mean? sorry i'm new to this.

I am having the same problem with my 23 month old twins Night Waking but i have got into a bad habit of giving them a bottle of watered down milk which i know is wrong but it is the only way i can sette them.

But tonight i am going to let them cry and see what happens, i am going to hate tonight as i hate hearing them cry, but i have got to give it a try.

x

[Tweakster]

What I find is that every time it is a true distress cry, I KNOW it.  I fly out of bed, both DH and I do, it's clear something is wrong - he's ill, fever, discomfort, whatever.  He needs us.

If I have to stand there deciding too long or questioning what kind of cry it is, then it's not distress.  It's just he's ed off with something, either he can't get back to sleep or he's just wanting one of us for one reason or another.  We have really tried to stop going in at these cries so we don't offer random reinforcement. 

[beckygatt]

DF is dream feed, i.e. giving meds while lo is asleep/half asleep, to take them longer through the night.

So, to be clear, if she is teething should I leave her in cot and just talk to her? Often she'll show no signs of teething during the day and I'll only suspect anything when bedtime comes, or when she has a NW.This is why I'm so confused. How will I know when the teething has ended, so to speak?

Today she woke at 7.45, napped from 12.30-3, and I'll aim for bedtime at 7.30/8 I thought. Does this sound OK?

I think I do need to hold back a bit more when she wakes up. I think I worry that if I don't rush in she'll 'wake up too much' ;-)