separation anxiety? if so, what can i do?!

[Alexa's mummy]

Hi there,

hoping for some more magical advice/insights from you ingenius ladies!!

my DD (9m +1wk) has started with NW's (multiple!!) in the last 1.5wks. she is completely independent sleeper w no props (settled self for nights from 12 wk old). always goes down awake, and not done night feeds since solids established and she normally does a 12.5h night with 1 or no resettles! (i paid my dues in the 1st 6m with LOADS of NWs cos of OT and hunger!  )

i started back at work 3 wks ago. only doing 2 days per week for 1st 5wk, then up to 3 days. she is being cared for my my parents in our house, so all v familiar. she doesnt really bat an eyelid when i leave her, and is happy and naps well in day. but NWs started ab 10days ago and we can have anything from 5-12 in one night! she has never liked sleeping in my arms from v early she always wanted to be put down, but now the only thing that settles her is me picking her up and she falls asleep in my arms. sometimes she'll stay asleep for few hours when i put her down, sometimes she'll stay asleep for few hrs, sometimes only1. the trouble seems to be when she rolls/gets to top of cot hitting her head, wakes up. normally i could just move her down and give her a kiss, now she wails until i pick her up.

i am totally exhausted. i am SO scared of undoing all the hard work of extablishing good sleep habits in her from so early. now it seems i have created a prop? what can i do about SA? surely she needs comfort and reassurance? should i be doing PUPD? i never had to do this and can imagine it'd wind her up (she has a flash of spirited in her!)

any ideas? i need to knock this on the head i know, but night time battles now seems such a shame! 

Thanks in advance,

Anna

[Alexa's mummy]

another thought.. she isn't crawling yet. could it be wired brain form planning that?! before she rolled we had a week or so of crazy nights. has anyone heard of book "the wonder weeks"? i am borroing this wkend from a friend, but they suggest can be developmental. if so should i just roll with it?! can 6months worth of great sleep habits be undone in a week or so or will she go back to being good at settling herself in night? could the room be too dark and scary?? its totally blacked out which has been essential since early on (touchy baby!)

[Tweakster]

Hi there, I don't think you will undo everything in 1 week, probably not even 2 :-)  We still have APOP days when Finn is at his worst and he's 16+ mths.  He always goes back to what he knows - independent sleep. 

So let's start with the basics - routine?  Could you post it.  Is she teething and if so are you medicating or using some remedies?  She has no paci?  A baby who wants to be picked up who normally doesn't seems discomfort to me.  You have described our kid to a T.  If he is just OT or whatever, he cries in the crib but doesn't really respond to being picked up and cuddled.  If he's in pain, it works like a charm.

Let's go from there :-)

[Alexa's mummy]

hi wendy,

thank you SO much for the response.  well, here's my confession!- we ditched a 'classic' BW routine at 6months when the balance between OT and UT was getting too much for either of us to bear. she always seems SO SO ready for a nap quite early after waking (2h15-30m) so i let her do an UT nap, then she goes back to bed 2h 35-45min after waking from short AM nap - typically around 12.15-30ish, and sleeps 2h. she then goes to bed at 6.30 and is asleep til 7am usually! it has owrked wonders for both of us as i just found the counting A times and constant tweaking of classic BW too much after so long of it. she started cutting down the length of her lunchtime nap a few weeks ago, and shortening the AM sleep to 25mins has brought that back to 2h. we no longer suffer with OT wake ups, and i think 2.5h sleep a day is right for her.

she is also def not UT/getting too much daytime sleep (as everyone who's babies dont nap want to tell me!!) as she is exhausted from the NWs and we now usually hav to wake her at 7am as she's not had proper rest in the night. these NWs aren't crib parties lol 

usual day:

awake 7am
S: 9.20-9.45
A: 9.45-12.25 (in bed @ 12.20)
S: 12.25-2.25
A: 2.25-6.30
S: 6.30-7am usually with not a peep from her!

these NW's suddenly occuring when the routine is consistent seems to me more related to sthg else do you think?

teething- i def thought so when it first started... meds made SOME difference, but not a lot. so one night after 3rd wake up i gave ibuprofen and she slept 3hrs before next wake, but still NWs after that. her nappies have been quite runny and stinky lately too, and she's been batting her ears (not tired related i dont think). so i took her to docs but no ear infection- can this be a sign of teething? also she's blowing a lot of raspberries atm, and somone suggested to me this can be due to uncomfortable gums. she got bottom 2 teeth at 6m and i didnt even notice until she bit me! but can some teeth be more painful then others?

what about developmental causes? she is late with her motor milestones- only rolled at 8m and just before that she had disturbed naps and nights for around a week. could she be thinking about crawling?! does it really work like that??!

i truly truly hope you are right that the good habits last and i wont undo all the hard work... i know from reading others of your posts that you had a lot of battles with Finn's sleep, and I can totally relate to that- i lost a lot of the joy of my gorgeous baby in the 1st 6m due to OT and OS issues. i worked so hard at getting her to be a good sleeper who listened to her body and slept when she needed it. i cant bear the thought of harsh sleep training, and really dont even want to do anything like PUPD. but i dont want to undo all the hard work now!!

thanks again for your reply Wendy 

[Alexa's mummy]

so last night she was asleep by 7pm, and woke at 8.30, 10, 11.30, 1.... without fail every 90mins until morning! i am beyond exhausted. i read in "healthy sleep habits, happy child" that by 4m their sleep cycles at night are adult-like (90mins). so she's not transitioning at all at night?! even thoughshe falls asleep independently and always used to be fine. ibuprofen made no difference. she cries and stops the instant i pick her up and nuzzles in to go to sleep, its as if this is what she expects now. i am scared of letting this continue, but not sure how to tackle it asi've never had to break bad habits before, i started her with good habits from the start : (

PUPD or gradual withdrawal??

[Tweakster]

Hi there, since your routine is not a typical BW I can't really advise what to tweak, but since it's working for you then we should leave it :-)  It sounds like she's moving into the 2-1 on her own, given her shortening her own nap.  So if you continue to work with her longer night and capping her day sleep at 2.5 hrs then it's probably fine.  It sounds reasonable for her age.

The NW I do suspect are from something else, it can be teething and even meds sometimes don't help :-(  I don't think I would use PU/PD since we aren't sure if she's in pain and I would try GW.  You can just soothe her in the crib but do not pick her up.  Let her know you are there but that she needs to go back to sleep.  Make sure she's medicated.  Does she have a lovey in her crib?

Pulling ears was classic teething for Finn, he would bat at them and hold them.  Also the runny stinky poos and drooly raspberries.  Yes I do think it sounds like teething.

I hear what you are saying about the good habits, and remember she will get back to sleeping independently.  Sleep isn't a linear progression despite what some books have you believe.  They constantly fall off the wagon so to speak and need to get back on again.  Finn does this still at 16+ mths.  We have even done shush/pat in the last month for something he was going through.  So it happens.  I too drove myself crazy for the first 12 mths, things got better when we moved to 1 nap but still, we have had our share of sleep battles.  It's hard to imagine it getting better but it does :-)  It's more of a twisty road than a straight and narrow.

[Alexa's mummy]

thanks again wendy.

well i think you are probably right, it doesn't seem fair to "sleep train" her (ie PUPD) if she might b in pain.

she was out like a light at 6.30- i gave her calpol (paracetamol/motrin  i think you call it?) at tea time, and anbesol on her gums at BT. so far 2h in she's not woken yet- i heard her shuffling but she must've settled back down. at first wake up i will give her ibuprofen and hope that helps somewhat. and i will try and go with the flow a bit and hope that this will pass and she'll be back to her normal self when it's over.

i don't think she'll be very impressed with me not picking her up but i will try to keep my resolve as much as possible, and calm her in the cot- although she does get v wound up when i've tried this and pulls my hands off her! i will try and stay strong as i really dont want to create a prop in this time.

i know there's no way of knowing really, but do you have any idea how long teething bouts can last for? this has been going on 10/11 days now, surely if teething something should cut through soon??!

thanks again x

[Tweakster]

Hi there, no they aren't much impressed when we don't pick them up but alas as you say, you don't want to create a prop that you have worked hard to avoid.  She has the skills to self-settle but sometimes they just need a bit of push from us to do it.  Which can mean just sitting int he room and telling her it's sleepy time or laying on the floor or just standing by the crib.  Whatever works for her without picking her up.

I hate to say but some teeth even just take months to do their thing.  It really depends.  Also, some parts of teething bother them less.  For example, Finn got really out of sorts when they were bulging but the poking through didn't bother him as much.  All you can do is try to work with her routine and stick to your guns about independent sleep as much as possible but recognize that if she's in pain she may need some extra support through it.

How has it been going?

[Alexa's mummy]

hi wendy,

sorry i've not been in touch, i'd like to say its because things have been going well but unfortuantely its the other way round!

things seemed to improve with pain relief and as i said it did seem to be teething. so we had 4nights or so of just one waking for meds, then she came down with an AWFUL cold last week which she was really poorly with, and back to hourly wakings from BT onwards, faling asleep in my arms (she needed to have head raised so i couldn't not). then as she was totally off her milk with cold cos couldn't suck she was hungry in night so i ended up feeding her 3/4 bottles after BT (she'd had abt 2-3 oz milk all day and barely any solids). then these last couple of days she's been constipated (i think she got dehydrated from lack of fluids and cold) and 2 nights ago she was up crying screaming but v different as she wouldnt settle in my arms and was fighting with me. she finally pooed yesterday- 2 v dirty nappies, and had normal amt of milk and appetite for solids resumed, so i really really thought last night would be drastically improved. but itwas worse than ever- she only woke at 12.30am, then 3.30 am- but only settled back to sleep (fnally in my arms) at 5.30 and i didnt dare put her down, so she slept (and i didnt ) til 6.30, woke crying, i put her in cot and she slept til 7.30. she was beside herself screaming. fighting me and arching back but sobbing more if i put hr down and lifting arms up.

i have booked to see cranial osteopath today to see if she's got some probs with bowels or something?? and dr tomorrow. but she is fine if a bit more clingy and whingey in day (which could easily mean she's in pain as she's so sociable she kind of pulls herself out of it when people are with her.

i am so so worried again, that this is because she's had a mnth of so much intervention at night, she has lost ability to self soothe.

i will keep u posted. i am so so tired, had to come home from work today as i thought i might break down! : (

any thoughts?

Anna xx

[Tweakster]

Hi Anna, so sorry to hear things are still rough with LO.  Could you post your typical day now or even the past 2 or 3 days so we can get an overall picture.  How are you soothing her at night now - just with food? 

We a good 2 months of Finn teething and being poorly after he started daycare and it was horrendous so I feel for you.  Sometimes it's a real rough patch until they feel better.

Do you have any help for the nighttime?

[Alexa's mummy]

hi there wendy,

well the cranial osteopth said she definitely had some tightness around her stomach/bowel area which he tried to loosen- and immediately after she did the same cry she'd been doing the night before. we saw the dr today- no ear infection and he said her stomach felt normal (and told me to do CC!). but he did also suggest they can get night terrors at this age too- which could be a factor? she goes to sleep (except the occasional night recently) pretty easily- within 5/10 mins of chatting to herself she's asleep. so this would suggest overall problem isn't pain or sep ax?

except- i'm pretty sure i can see one of her upper teeth cutting thru, the top gums have looked very sore and bulging for a while now. so maybe it is ALL cold and teething just being dragged out over weeks and weeks???

our typical day- as i said, isn't normal BW as i dont count A times as i used to- but i do base it mostly on A times and not set nap times.

Awake 7
A: 7am- 9.45 (2h 45m)
S: 9.45-10 (20m)
A: 10am-12.30 (2h 30m)
S: 12.30-2pm (1h 30m)
A: 2.00-6.30
S: 6.30-7

I always wake her from first nap between 20-30mins in, as if she has longer she only sleeps for 45m at lunchtime.  i also started doing this as i read that if they have a long AM nap it can encourage EW's as they see it as an extension of the nighttime.

The routine has worked pretty well for us as its been v consistent, and i thinkk i just need to keep monitoring the nap lengths, as ideally i' like her to sleep 2h at lunchtime, but she usually does 90mins (sometimes 2h if she's for e.g tired from a bad night).  i think once we're down to 1 nap (12mnths ish??) she'll do 2hrs...

i think i can manage to ride this out if i think it'll pass and we'll get bak to better nights soon.  my main worry is losing all her independent sleep habits and her now expecting cuddles in the middle f the night. but i dont knw what else to do tight now, especially as i think she is in some pain.

we are seeing osteopath again tomorrow- (a more experienced one) and i hope she'll be ablt to tell me if there are any probs that cld be causing her discomfort (though again, why wld this only be a problem in the middle of the night, and not at bedtime???!)

i wish i knew what was going on!!!!

Anna xx

[Tweakster]

Hi there, you will be able to get her sleeping independently again.  It's a rough patch, albeit a long one.  But there are methods to help you even beyond 12 mths - so not to worry :-)

Night terrors are where LO is screaming and thrashing but they are completely asleep, unaware that you are even there.  It happens during deep sleep so during the earlier part of the night.  Usually 2-3 hrs after bedtime.  And they don't 'wake up' and need you usually, after their episode they often just return to deep sleep.  It's not that common to appear in babies this young though. 

Because she goes to sleep easily doesn't mean she's not bothered by pain later in the night.  It manifests more at night.  So she may wake into a light sleep phase, and then not be able to get herself back to sleep because of the pain/discomfort.

Let us know what the osteopath says.

[Alexa's mummy]

hi there Wendy, sorry again for late reply- our internet was down and i can't access sites like this at work.

well things have been marginally better but not right. i think the main problem is definitely teething. osteo said she had a lot of tightness around bowels, but 2 days later she was pooing nomally and i took her back and she was totally back to normal and the osteo commented what a healthy and happy baby. (she is so happy thru day!)

my childminder leant us some homeopathic remedies- chamomilla 30c- and it worked wonders for around a week she slept thru/woke once. but night wakings the last few nights are back. but i think i can feel relaxed that she's not losong her ability to sleep independently she's just unlucky that she's finding this teething business really tough. one top central incisor has cut and the other is bulging, and i can see the lateral incisors have eruption sacs too, so it must be hard for her. i am laying off giving her pain meds as i was so worried about how much she'd had for long period, and i dont think they seem to work for her. i am just going with it really, accepting this is how it will be until these teeth are thru, and i think that makes it easier to cope with. my god i am tired tho! its been around 6 weeks now where i've probably had a handful of good nights the others with wakings every hour or so!

thanks again for the help and advice- your instinct to begin with was right... i just never thought one bout of teething could drag on so long!! : ((

Anna xx

[onesarah]

Hi Anna

I seem to be goin through the same thing with my 16 month old son at the moment - and cant pin point the cause of the night wakings. Its awful and sometimes I dont know how I will carry on.

Hope you are doing better.