stuck in the 3-4 hr EASY transition

[gemma2313]

btw Ruth how are you going with those NW? just when I think ours are becoming habit he seems to go all random on me.... did 2 nights of w2s sort out that 1.40NW? what time is your Df?

[waterdragon]

I am really upset we have had a major breakdown.....
I decided to be really careful about not getting ot

Woke at 0700  sleep 0840 woke at  at 9.30 really upset  began to settle with white noise when the machine ran out of batteries!

put back to bed at 11.00 and slept about 11.08- woke at 45 mins  put on white noise over next 45 mins or so cried every 5 mins but with eyes closed and then cry etc
Got up at 1.00 not sure what kind of sleep she had

Sleep at 2.45 woke at 3.15 screaming++++

TOOK TO THE CAR   slept 15 min at 4.15

refused cat nap at 5.45  bed at 7.00 ......normal night (wake at 12 and 4 for feed)
She seems tired all the time even when she woke yesterday am she was rubbing  her eyes and pale

[newmummy82]

Waterdragon- you are having such a rough time (((((BIG HUGS)))))) DD also looked totally wrecked for a good few days- woke up in the morning looking tired (pale with red eyes etc). I suppose part of the transition to 4 hr involves a GS so they need more A time and longer between feeds but are mroe tired and hungry at the same time- babies are so contradictory!!). We are also white moise addicts- have a CD, slumber bear and a fan standing by just in case! WE leave it all throughout all naps and all night!
 
The only way we are managing longer A times is by doing at least the last 20 mins of it as super chilled- in pram/car or walking round listening to music, baby massage etc. I think we were ending up with OS naps as we were going mad trying to keep her awake!! We find putting her in her cot at 1 hr 50 (and no earlier!) seems to work and she is asleep by 1 hr 55 mostly or 2 hrs at latest. We have had 3 days of a good 2 hrs A 2 hr S pattern and she is definately tolerating it better.

I am rubbish at extending naps so the best way for us is to get A time right. Would PUPD work for your DD?

Gemma- we did W2S 2 nights (cos DH was the W2S enforcer and he was back to work after 3rd night). THe first night it worked and we got a NW at about 2.30, same second night and 3rd night and 4th night so was starting to think we had just bumped the habitual NW along!! The 4th night she woke and mantra cried/babbled so I sat and listened and didn't lift her and she went back to sleep after 15 mins (and woke about 20 mins later sounding properly awake and hungry). I like to think I avoid props but in the middle of the night my brain does not function AT ALL and any cry gets a BF!! Have been trying to engage brain a bit and it is helping.
Last night she STTN!!! (from 7pm til 7 when I woke her) She has only done this once before 3 weeks ago and never since. Hopefully won't have to wait another 3 weeks for another one!!
We used to DF at 10pm but have gradually pushed to 1030 to try and go longer over night.

Rx

[waterdragon]

Thanks Ruth,
I don't think this is ever going to work for us.
Its not that hard for us to extend A time as she is quite placid but her naps are so short and restless

This am she was up from 0700 then slept at 0845  she woke at 1 hr 17 mins??? What is this .She was screaming and tired.

I have learnt my lesson so I have not pushed with next A time

So I have had her up for 1 hr 35 mins and she screamed going down to bed which is was upsetting because its usually just a 3 min mantra cry.

I wish I never knew about this routine then I wouldnt be so upset when it didnt work

We did do a 2 hr  time on sunday but she woke at 30 mins and I was really  lucky she self settled because mostly 30 min wake ups are not fixable and even then the whole nap was only 1 hr 20 mins.

PS just looking at my diary and for the past week (except yesterday) each morning nap has been1  hr 15-1 hr 20   mins
Why is she not completing the sleep cycle .I would say this is not helping because I have to reduce next A time.

[gemma2313]

I found ds1 did a lot of 1hr15min when he was a bit older. I actually concluded it had to be OT. (1hr 15 = 1x30mins +1x45min)... thats what I figured anyway... basically they resettle themselves after a OT nap and follow with one sleep cycle. it got ds1 by but was always sooo frustrating for me.

We have slotted into a perfect 3.5hr easy. 2hrs A time, 1.5naps.. but three of them ... (on a good day!)... like Ruth I have to put him down at 1hr50 to get sleep at about 1hr55/2hrs... though I did accidently find out a fwe days ago that at 2hrs, if he's calm he will go to sleep WHEREEVER he is.. even in the swing with my toddler having a trantrum right next to him!! lol!...

oh waterdragon i feel for you!! you are not alone!! It is soo frustrating spending all day resettling. It takes all Y out of everything and puts me in a terrible mood! could she be having a growth spurt and be hungrier than normal?

have you got any APOP you can do? I can get ds2 to sleep in my arms if I put a blanket (this sounds terrible but it works!!).. so i put a blanket over my shoulder , over his head while I hold him horizontally. It shuts out stimuli and lets me pat his bum easy. I also sing nursery rhymes/ lullabies cause I can only ssssssshhhhhh for so long before it drives me mad. the songs help me concentrate on something other than him making a racket. If I really really really need him to sleep I can usually get this APOP to work. maybe try catching up on some of that OT for a few days, resettle as often as you can, and drop the A time. As soon as she starts having 45min naps then you know you've gone to far and need to start increasing that A time back up again!!

[waterdragon]

Hi Gemma
APOPing  is a no no .... ..we have no special tricks .That's what happens when you do independent sleep from day 1.In a way I regret being so determined with it.It was the same with DD1 she wasn't able to fall asleep if I was even in the room. Good but bad IYKWIM.

Here is today ...weird
0700 wake (1 hr 45 min)
0845 sleep(1 hr 20)
1007 wake(1 hr 35 min
1145 sleep till 1310 woke crying extended with white noise ....I WOKE  her at 1400!!( 2hr 15 min)
1400-1545(1 hr 45 min )
15.45-16.30 (45 min)
slept 5 Min's in  car at 1730 (bloody slow tractor was in front of us and she woke)
slept 1920

I think that long nap meant she didn't really need that much sleep left in the day???
I am feeding 4 hrly or as close to depending on naps ...its no problem and she can last >4 hrs too. It also means I am no forcing her to eat like before.

I am so jealous of your routine!!!

[gemma2313]

I keep going with your 1hr35 - 1hr 45 for a little bit longer just to give her a chance to get over that OT.

Once you think she fresh I would try 1hr50... it really isnt very far off ...

our night was a "little" better. He woke at 9.15 for his DF (gggrrr so much for making it later! don't understand why..) but then slept til 2.45. Thats the longest he's gone in aggeeess.. I'm really hoping that his cold/teeth/wind or whatever it is thats causing these frequent NW is slowly going away.......

hope you have a wondeful day!

[waterdragon]

Thanks gemma
Today I am going to work for a meeting about going back in october so thats the routine out the window.
Dropping DD2 down to my mum for a few hrs.
Bad start woke at 0650  ....I slept about 4 hrs last night ,Im so stressed.
Our nights are really stuck , she is taking less at DF and more at 4 am and really hungry ...grrrrr.
Hope your nights continue to improve

[newmummy82]

Waterdragon- I also can't APOP sleep unless she has screamed for an hour and collapses with exhaustion in my arms- independent sleep is fab until it all comes unstuck!! Really hoping you have a better day

Gemma- we had a few days of 3 1.5 hr naps for a 3.5 hr EASY and I thought we would stay there fo a while as I've heard tha BF babies don't get to 4 hr til 5-6 months but DD just started sleeping longer and is happy for 4 hrly feeds. If we don't get a 2 hr nap, I tend to give her a longer CN so we either do 3 X 1.5 hr nap/ 2x 2hr nap +45 min CN/ 1x 2h, 1x1.5hr + 1 hr CN.


As predicted, the STTN was a one off- probably another month before we get it again!!! We had a good 4 am feed so the 7am feed was a bit half hearted. THinking about just offering 1 side at 4 to see if that helps.

Sometimes I feel that there is not enough room in my head to try and work this all out!!

R

[gemma2313]

oh Ruth I know exactly what you mean... when did having a baby become so scientific!! I'm constantly calculating the odds of this happening if i do that etc etc... argh! and STTN is soo mean is so many ways... Its a taste of something really great that you just can't have! we've had it maybe 10 times in ds2 life so far, we're about due for a good night really... I think its been nearly 3 weeks since our last one!! thank god my ds1 sleeps thru else I would be going crazy. At least I know that BW works. I have a nonBW friend that has a 4yr old and a 2yr old and both wake frequently thru the night. The 4 yr old actually crawls into their bed from 5am everymorning... and the 2 yr often wakes 2 or 3 times a night... (she still offers him a bottle throughout the night and does so much AP its mad!).

waterdragon you must be soo tired!! are you going to bed earlier and letting DH do that DF? is dd2 still waking herself for that 4am feed? and is it always about the same time? I'm going to suggest something that I'm not brave enough to do myself but am really considering...... if you were determined to not feed her at 4am.. and just kept trying to settle her without the feed until she either sleeps or its say 6/7am? and then start your day early for that day.. then do you think she would break the habit? It might only take a few days. I'm sure with her being a "mutant" as you so lovingly described :oP and being bottle feed she should be able to go 6-7hrs without a feed now. You might find that she is hungrier because she doesnt get that 4am feed and so has more throughout the following day... and wants it less the following night.. IYKWIM

work is good but not. I'm enjoying doing something non-baby-orientated again but I definately stress pretty quickly. It only takes a bad day and I can feel myself spiral. conversely, today was a great day. 2x2.15hr naps and a CN... and ds1 was at a friends house this AM.. I got sooo much done!

[waterdragon]

My mutant hasnt fully grasped the 4 hr EASY concept
0735 up (woke at 0622 by thank goodness went back to sleep at 0705)
sleep 0925 (a dangerous 1 hr 50 min atime)
woke 11.05 (1.5 hr nap) a time  1 hr 45
sleep 13.45  (1 hr 45 min nap)
woke 2.30 . a time 1 hr 45-50
sleep 4.20 woke 4 .45 ? and happy (25 mins)
bed 7.15 slept 7.40  that was 3 hr a time
she refused second cat nap even went in the car.....Im sure this is not good but what can I do.

Gemma ,will address the night feed issue at 4.5 months (ie 2 weeks) it cant go on  I have now had 8 hrs sleep in the last 48 hrs and I dont feel too good. And for no good reason if I could just get back to sleep after feeding her.....

[gemma2313]

omg I had my friends kids around here the last two days to help her out babysitting...(and DH is away for 4 days!) I am definatley NOT having 4 kids under 4.. its insane!! a 4yr old, 27mo, 22mo and ds2 (4mo) argh!! Amazingly probably because I haven't had time to pay attention to his routine.. ds2 has actually been really good... each day at least 2x1.5hr naps & a CN despite the noise and chaos (probably very OS!!) I juts had to go with his cues cause I was loosing track of time... I think he was lasting 2 hrs though... cause feeds were still 3.5/4hr apart... phew... will write again later, both boys are in bed and I'm going to bed now too...

[waterdragon]

That dose not sound like fun to me at all...
So if you are also on 2 by 1.5 hr naps and cat nap are you like me with hours before bed???
Today we had 1 nap 1 hr 40 min  , next was 2 hrs then  3rd 30 mins which left 3 hrs to bed.She went nuts when we tried to put her down for second cat nap ...took to the car and eventually after 30 mins of groaning and rubbing eyes she slept for 20 mins which brought us up to a late bed time.
I am now on 1 hr 50 min a time in the am and 1 hr 45 for subsequent naps...
Oh yes we also now have 12.5 hr days ..such a pain she has woken at 0700 last 6 days

[gemma2313]

Yeah we often end with an extended time before bed but I usually just end up putting him to bed a bit earlier. For the last week or so more often than not that last nap ends up being 1.5hrs... so we get 3x1.5 naps which means he's not as OT before bed...

feeds aren't always 3.5hrs apart... If we get held up at all or I try to resettle during the day it does change things.

He's been doing just about 2hrs now every A time... and is getting used to it. We're still getting odd NW though and I just can't work it out. This was yest

EW- 5.05 so I fed and resettled.. back to sleep by 5.45
E -7.00
A 1hr55min
S - 8.55 - 10.30ish (1.5hrs)
E -10.30
A 1hr50
S -12.20 - 1.40 (1hr20min?)
E 1.45
A 1hr50min
S 3.30 - 5 (1.5hrs)
E -5.20 .. only a few minutes of bf cause he was getting stroppy and ds1 wasnt ready for a bath yet
A Bath - 5.45
E -6.30
A
S -7.05... took another 10mins to settle  (teething?)
NW - woke at 8.40ish, I gave him panadol and resettled
DF 10.15 no problem

NW @ 2.05 and again at 5am.. he then slept til 7.30 this morning.


hope things are going well / getting better for you

[waterdragon]

Looks like you are doing really well in the day ...we had the worst day ever yesterday.

I was in tears at least 10 times. She woke at 6 and was not happy eventually falling back to sleep at 6.40 and then up at 07.10.
I wasnt sure would she be tired form the am wake so went with a time of 1 hr 45 .... mistake

What followed was a day of 30 min naps and OT++++. It was awful .At 4.00 pm she had had 30-40 min naps and was screaming when i tried to put her to bed .So i went for a walk...1.5 hrs of walking and she slept for 23 mins .It happened to be the hottest day of the year and I am not fit ...I nearly got sick with the effort,

Dh took over at 5 30 pm and I went o my mums .She cried till bed .
She didnt wake till 0730 this am ..she just gone to bed and i am nearly sick with fear it will start again.