How to sort it all at once?

[Carolineiris]

Hi again

I'm sorry I've got all sorts of posts going on at the moment because there are so many issues. I am hopefully making some progress but wanted to check I'm doing the right thing.

Baby is 5 months. Never napped well - short napper. Props issues with BF and finger sucking/ dummy. Never really napped in cot. Basically on 4 hour EASY but is a nightmare due to short naps. Am doing PUPD solidly for 5 days to help teach to self settle but obviously OT is a big issue. now is also waking at 5.30 for feed and will not go back to sleep for love nor money!!

Routine is roughly

E 7.00
A
S 9.00 (30-40 mins)
A
E 11.00
A
S 12.00  (40 mins plus 40 if I can get her back down
E 3.00
A
S 4.00 (30 - 40 mins)
A bath 6.00
E 6.30
S 7.00
E DF 11.00

The sleep times are when I try and get her to sleep though she can take 15 mins to half an hour or more to actually go to sleep. If she sleeps half an hour I know she should only be awake an hour but not sure how to fit extra naps in around feeds and the fact that she doesnt settle herself and PUPD takes a good half hour.

The EW are fairly new in terms of not going back to sleep.

I have help over the next few days so I can do PUPD with a toddler around but baby now has a cold. Should I carry on? I really need to get her napping in the cot as have been walking her in pram and just can't keep doing that.

Please help. How do I get it all to slot into place? Am I doing the right things??

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Hi there...

I see you have an active thread over on props and it looks like you're getting some good help over there.

I'll chime in about your routine and techniques.  One thing I see is that you're doing PU/PD but LO is only 5 months, right?  We usually don't start using PU/PD until 6 months since it's too stimulating before that.  I would stick to shh/pat and HTTJ, sounds like you're having some success lately with those for extending naps?

As for your routine, if she only naps for 1.5h, you really need to shorten the next A time a bunch.  I'd do under 2h myself.  I think she's way OT and that's why you're getting the EW now since it's all just building on itself.  This might mean she ends up with too many naps in a day, but more sleep is better (even if it's broken up) until we can get her naps to lengthen.  Some of the nap lengthening is developmental, too, so it should come with time.  It's hard for me to post a goal routine since I think your goal looks good but you just need to tweak a bunch every day according to how she naps each time.

You may end up with a super early BT if you shorten up A's during the day, too, but that's ok.  Don't be afraid to put her in bed at 6pm.  Sounds nuts, but it will really help with the OT.

If she has a cold now you may have to just ride it out for a few more days. It's impossible to teach independent sleep to a sick baby.   But she'll be better soon and you'll get going again.

I think you're really on the right track.  Sounds like from your other post that things are getting better and that you know where you're headed.  I think shying away from PU/PD for now and doing some routine tweaking will help a bunch.

What do you think?

[Carolineiris]

Hello

Thanks for your reply. We are sort of getting somewhere but as soon as one thing starts going right, other things go wrong! 

I kind of had to do PUPD as nothing else was really working anymore. However I didn't really have to do it much before it became more like Shh Pat. She now settles in the cot with me stroking her and sometimes this only takes 10 minutes or less. She also naps in the cot which is a major breakthrough. 

The naps are really varied. Prob most likely to go 40 mins if I leave her but sometimes more and sometimes I can extend it with more stroking when she wakes. 

However 
1) today was the first day I had my toddler at home and no help looking after her while I settled baby - and it all fell apart. Couldn't settle her.

2) she has been waking once at 4 or 5 which is normal and I think is genuine hunger - but a few times has refused to go back to sleep at all ( not crying just lively) - and today, went back to sleep after an hour but was really fitfull. Slamming her legs and thrashing about until awake at 7.00.

She's been getting about twice as much daytime sleep and now the nights are terrible. Does she actually not need the longer naps do you  think?

Previously she got 3 x half hour naps and was asleep by 9 pm, woke once and resettled.

Now she can have 2 x 1 1/4 hr naps plus a 20 min catnap and sleeps at 7.00/7.30 - wakes once at 4 or 5 and wants to get up!!

What now??

Thank you for any thoughts!

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

Sounds like the naps are better!  Sorry the nights are still wonky.  I do think she needs the longer naps.  Perhaps she needs more A time, though.  What's her current EASY like?

[Carolineiris]

Hi

Nights have only been wonky since naps improved.

Her EASY isn't that at all. I try to feed at 7 / 11 / 3 / 6.30 plus DF at 11.00

I put her down For morning nap 2 hours after getting up and the next nap will be dependent on how long she sleeps :-
Less than an hour nap - 1 hour later
More than an hour nap - 1.5-2 hours later

But some days are ridiculous if she only does half hour naps. 

At least she now does nap in the cot but some days like today it takes half an hour to gain half an hour.

My aim is at least a good 1.5-2 hour nap at lunchtime regularly but seems a million miles off. 

[Love, laughter, & PJs]

If she takes a good nap, you could go up on the A time a bit.  At this age many LOs are doing a bit over 2h.  So she could be UT for the next nap, making it short.

I would hang in with just letting her catnap to get her rested and also work on extending the naps.

So the nights are worst when she has good daytime sleep?  Perhaps she's a bit UT and needs a longer A time to bed?  What's the last A time after the CN on a good nap day?  Maybe we can push bedtime back a tiny bit.