Why as dream sleeper turned into a nightmare

[krisfred6]

Good morning, how did everyone's night go.  We had a little bit of a better night.  LO only woke up at 12am (resettled self) and 5am (was wet through from all the extra calories I have been pouring into him).  Woke at 6.40am ready for the day - very happy and cheerful.  I am also wondering if it could be developmental.  When you search this issue on the internet there are hundred of thousands of other posts from parents of 4 month olds going through the same thing.  I was thinking that I had done something to develop a sleep issue, but I think that some of it may be because they are going through a growth spurt, don't feed as well because they are alert, and also spending time awake thinking about all the new things they have learned during the day.  I know that this info doesn't help us to deal with the issue, but at least I know that I probably didn't do anything wrong - and eventually he might grow out of it!

Mamat - what ages do you teach?  I teach (or used to) in a two teacher school - and I taught the 9 years - 12 year olds.  There were 35 students in the school.  Most of the time it is pretty cool, but a lot of extra planning (Four grades to plan for).  There is also a high majority of Aboriginal students in the school who nearly all have learning difficulties.  The things we do for our jobs - I agree 

[mamat]

I also usually teach multiple grades. I have also taught in a small school of 3 teachers. My classroom was grade 4-7. I only did that one year though and then moved on to  a bigger school. 2 Years ago I had 3 grades so I definately have my share of multiple grades. It is so much work!

That is wonderful that you had a good night! Ours was ok, but not great. She woke up at 10 and was happy and playing for about 45 minutes. The only way I finally settled her down was to nurse her to sleep. She then woke up around 2, nursed for a while and then I decided to give her bottle to her. After that, she was WIDE awake again. Yesterday she learned how to roll completly over though so maybe she was having problems sleeping because of that? Who knows but at least she wasnt crying and she did eventually settle on her own and sleep until 6:30. Again today, she is not taking much for supplement after bf so I am hoping that she is eating enough.

[krisfred6]

Morning check in.  How did you go?  Last night was a little better.  Only woke at 4.30 (he was very wet and soiled - so I changed him and put back to bed - no feed)  but took about 1 hour to resettle self to sleep.  He wasn't crying - just talking to himself!  Then woke at 6.40am for the day.  Hope everyone else had good nights last night.  I'm sure this can't last forever

[mamat]

We had a HORRIBLE night! It started off with a df at 11 that resulted in a wake up and not settling self for some time. Then, I dont really know what happened after that but she was basically up every half hour -hour for most of the night. She did eat a few times so  Idont know if she is hungry or just waking up and eating because I feed her. Tonight we are going to get started with not offering to feed until 2am and then I will go from there. SO SO tired today, me that is

[krisfred6]

Mamat, Im really sorry you had a horrible night.  I am tired today too, but not as much as you I can imagine.  Are you able to sleep during the day? (I think I saw that you had other littles as well, is that right?)  Even though the LO slept a little better I was still awake waiting for him to wake up .  My DH is talking about starting for another one, but I think I need to get some more sleep first.  I will think of you guys tonight and hope that you have a better night 

[krisfred6]

Hi Mamat,
How did your night go last night?  We had a little bit of a win.  LO only woke at 5.15am.  I was unsure whether to feed him or not (so didn't) and he went back to sleep about 6am.  I think I just need to feed him when he wakes at these early times and then put him back to sleep.  But I feel that it is a step backwards as he was able to sleep through without needing a sleep.  I wonder if he needs a feed then.  Hope things are going a little better for you and your LO.

[LovelyLilyandJack]

I'm not sure if this is helpful or not but I found my LO (who is also a dream sleeper) woke a lot around that age, for nothing at all really.  If he's resettling at least you know it's not a prop (like boob addiction) or hunger that's waking him (assuming you don't use a dummy or anything?).  Is he in the room with you?  Totally up to you but this was the time I moved our LO into her own room cos she was sleeping fitfully but ok really, and it was keeping us up unnecessarily!  It might be that he's OK, just learning about moving around a bit and about ways to settle himself, and you're noticing it a bit more cos he's becoming more obvious in it? If he's not crying out a lot then he's probably fine.

My only other thought would be to up his A time a little bit but I'm not so good at the A time vs nap thing so I might be wrong in thinking that!  If I remember correctly, Lilys third nap was quite short at that age so maybe you could try upping A times a little (5/10 minutes?) and see how it goes?  If someone else thinks differently though then go with them as I'm pretty new to all this! 

[mamat]

The last 2 nights have been a little bit better and also, the last 2 days, we have gotten 1 better nap through the day (1.5 one day and 2 hours the other day). I am not bringing her into bed with me before 5:30 but will get up and feed her a few times. (last night and the night before at midnight, 3 and 6 ish). She does use a pacifier and so I will give her that when she wakes up and it seems to help. Last night though, she only woke up on the 3 hour marks so that was better than it has been.

IF I up the A time, she still only seems to sleep a short amount of time but I am working on extending naps and A time and hopefully over a bit of time, things will sort themselves out!

[krisfred6]

Thanks LovelyLily,
We had two good nights (when LO only woke once) and then last night was a bit of a terror again (awake at 11pm - before DF, 1.30, 2.30, 5.30 (BF), 6.15, woke at 7.00am.  I'm really confused as he doesn't really seem to need anything when he wakes.  I go in, put his dummy in (which he generally spits back out) and he goes back to sleep.  When I feed him he doesn't really seem to take very much.  He did have a bit of a cough last night (and today) which has been waking him a little so maybe this was the answer last night.  It is really annoying because you feel like you have actually solved the issue (two good nights) and then it all goes to pot again.

Mamat, hope you had another alright night last night. 

[LovelyLilyandJack]

mamat - it sounds like things are improving for you - I hope they continue to. 

krisfred - how is your LO waking and what does he generally do to resettle?  When you go in and give him the dummy does he settle back down again or just spit it out and carry on crying?

[krisfred6]

Hi LovelyLily,
When he is waking he generally has a grizzle cry (he very rarely has a real cry, with tears - maybe once a week)  I wait for awhile to see if he will go back to sleep and if it gets louder I go in.  When I go in I put his dummy in (which sometimes stays in and sometimes doesn't) and ocassionally hold his hands (he seems to like this).  Then he shuts his eyes and seems to go back to sleep. Other times he can be awake for up to an hour, not really crying so I don't go in but playing, turning around in his cot or sucking his toes. I generally don't feed him as he was STTN so I have assumed that he could last the night without needing a feed, but last night I feed him at 5am as I thought it might settle him through to 7am but even though he took a feed he was still awake at 6.15am.  I know that babies will never be predicable but I thought he was starting to sleep through the night and that we were doing well.  Now I feel that we are going backwards and I am scared that we are creating sleep problems that are going to be impossible to fix in the future.

[mamat]

Sorry to hear that you had another crazy night! It is all SO unpredictable! As for us, M had a good night. She woke up at 1:30 (bf) and then again at 5:30 (BF). She then woke up for the day at 7:30. I couldnt complain about that after the nights she has give me lately! I think so much of it has to do with not pulling her into bed everytime she cries. She is now seeming to sleep through those little restless moments.

It is so hard when they wake up playing through the night hey? There is no way of forcing them back to sleep! M did that for a few nights in a row and hasnt done it now in a few so hopefully she is over that. The timing though, was right when she started rolling consistently. So, who knows, it might be because of her new trick! Could this be the case for your little one?

[krisfred6]

Hi Mamat,
I am really pleased that your LO is starting to settle down again.  What a clever girl she is to roll over.  Our issues could be related to learning new things as Samson has just started to creep.  I call it creeping because he moves forward but it is nothing like crawling.  He puts his head on the ground, lifts up his bum and pushes forward with his legs.  This has made him a little mobile and a little less frustrated.
I get really upset when he wakes as I am not sure what to do...Do I feed him (potentially creating a an accidental parenting moment), do I leave him to go back to sleep (to encourage self settling), do I go in and put his dummy back in (potentially creating a prop).  I am so confused with what I should do when he wakes that I dread the sound of him waking in the night.
During the day he is a dream baby...we are currently moving from 3-hour EASY to 4-hour EASY and he takes everything in his stride.  He goes down when I put him down and he eats when I feed him.  He also such a happy little fella that I don't think he even misses the sleep during the night (I know I do! ) .  My DH is very supportive but as we are both new parents and have never done this before we are both sinking.  It is times like these that I really really miss my mum! . 
Mamat, I hope that things continue improving for you.  I often think of you and hope that your little one is sleeping well.

[mamat]

I am a fourth time mama and this still leaves me with tonnes of questions so you are not alone! Your little one is how old again? I know that my lo was definately sleeping longer before she started all of her nw and I have been feeding her when she wakes up at midnight or 1. It used  to be between 2 and 4 that she would wake. I often wonder if I am doing the accidental parenting thing as well but she just seems so hungry and will eat really well when I get up to feed her. So, for now, I will continue feeding if she wakes up 3 or more hours after being put down. I will see what happens over the next little while.
Last night was a good night again. She woke up at 1:30 and 5:30, the same as the night before. She is down now for her nap and it is likely that  will only get 30-45 minutes out of her. I cant seem to get her to sleep any longer!

BTW, the dummy is our friend right now. I will address it later on when things settle down at night!

[krisfred6]

Good morning,
We had a much better night last night.  Samson only woke at 5am (he had exploded out of his nappy  ) and I changed him and he went back to sleep until 7.15am.  I went to see the Child Health nurse yesterday and she has advised me to put him on formula for his dream feed as it appeared that didn't have enough milk - Samson hasn't put on as much weight as he should have.  She also said that because he is so active he needs a little help.  I still breast feed for all the other feeds.
Mamat I am really pleased that things are starting to settle down.  It seems like everyone takes one step forward the 10 steps back with this baby issue  .  Samson is also down for his nap.  He is generally a good napper.  He tends to wake on the 45min mark but I am normally able to put him back to sleep.  I wouldn't worry about the dummy issue.  Samson still uses his dummy for sleep times and while it worries me a little, as you said - we can deal with it later  .