Quick question about MPI

[LizzieN]

Hi lovely ladies,
Just have a quick question about MPI...on another thread one of the mums mentioned that babies who have MPI tend to have poor weight gain when the dairy protein is present in breast milk.  Is this only in babies that poo very frequently or does it occur in babies that do long stints between poos too? Just wondering why they don't gain well.

TIA
xxLizzie

[Canwi]

It's my understanding that MPI LO's usually don't gain well because they have much less fats in their diet with no milk, no cheese, no yoghurt.  When DS2 was ~9mths old the GI doc suggested I add olive oil to anything and everything could to boost the good non-dairy fats in his diet.  Consequently he went on a little weight gain blip on his growth curve.

I don't think the frequency of poop has much impact on weight gain, but I could be wrong.

[LizzieN]

thanks sweetie i assumed they meant mpi when they were still exposed to the dairy..

[Canwi]

Sorry didn't quite get that.  
Well, with MPI it causes an irritation to the lining of entire gastrointestinal tract ie mouth to butt.  I'm guessing that  may cause a lesser degree of absorption of nutrients. 
But that is entirely a guess.

[LizzieN]

Hmm ok I would think malabsorption of nutrients would probably create more bulk thus more poos?  Sorry I'm just speculating as my DD is very very gassy, have tried cutting out "gassy foods" this week (will go on for another week) but the next real step is a dairy elimination for a couple of weeks.  She has low weight gain (as did DS which I attributed to his vomiting) so now I'm thinking that I either don't have enough milk or there is another reason for her low weight gain.  I did do elimination with DS but much later and Liz pointed out that MPI may have been at play in the earlier days and I just didn't know.....  She doesn't poo frequentlh though.

Thanks for your help sweetie and sorry I didn't explain myself properly.  As you know my head is not in the right place today xx

[*Liz*]

MPI can cause constipation as well as diarrhoea - just to confuse the issue  .

[LizzieN]

Yeah I was just wondering about the weight gain thing.  She seems to feed fine, I know I don't have copious amounts of milk but it seems to be enough to satisfy her and she is growing, just not getting fat as quickly as I would like....I suspect I'm going to try and do a dairy free trial soon as the gassy food thing doesn't seem to be helping...it's just hard 'cause it may just be her, she has good days but the closer it gets to poo day the worse the gas gets...

xx

[*Liz*]

((hugs)) honey - I don't know the proper why - smaller feeds due to pain could impact on weight as well.

I also think FTT/ weight issues would be in severe cases rather than all.

Hopefully someone will have the answer for you   

[deb]

As Deb has already mentioned, the inflammation/irritation in the digestive tract can lead to nutrients not really being absorbed. And definitely adding fats is good. If you can get coconut oil into your and LO's diet, the good fat is not only ideal for baby growth (any human growth, actually! , but it's got the second-highest concentration of lauric acid in any food (only breast milk is higher! and it's a very healing substance so can speed healing in the gut. I've started taking a tablespoon or two before meals a couple times a day (I don't always remember) and am noticing more energy and general overall feeling better. (It's also great topically but that's another thread for another day.)

Any time we had something going on in the gut (intolerance, tummy bug, whatever), we figured out that we couldn't work out the logic behind weight gain or loss. We could just tell that something wasn't right. Even if there is weight gain with an inflamed gut lining, the weight might not be healthy weight, if that makes sense; a person can gain weight even while suffering from malnutrition. Good fats can help make up the difference in cases of poor weight gain, but healing the gut really is key.

[EloysH]

Lizzie I don't know the answer, but I am guessing if a dairy intolerant baby is receiving the milk protein through the breastmilk but not gaining weight well, and the poor gain is DUE to the dairy intolerance and not anything like genetics then:  

 that baby would need to have quite a severe intolerance, be in alot of pain, and probably fussing on the breast, and not feeding too well, and thus FTT.  

  Hand in hand with the severe intolerance would come  both due to pain and inflammation of the digestive tract.   I don't know how serious the intolerance needs to be so that nutrients are not being absorbed well and thus affecting weight gain, but I suspect quite bad.

I say this because of my experience with DS1 who had MPI and he was absolutely huge and thirving, he was in pain for the first 4 months of his life with undiagnosed dairy intolerance and reflux but he just fed really well and grew and grew.  He was in 90th percentile until he was 1 years old.  At 4 months old I cut out dairy and it didn't affect his weight gain at all.  His MPI was not severe, I was able to eat hidden soy and hidden dairy, and it didn't affect him.  He was eating dairy by 9 months old when he outgrew his reflux.

  Now a different story, here I have my DS2 smaller, and gaining weight a little too slowly, whist I am on an ED eating no allergic foods at all and very little intolerant foods, with very little fats but still a diet high in nutrients.  He feeds really well, I have plenty of milk.  The weight gain has slowed in the last 3 weeks -  since i have been on this diet.

[deb]

Eloys, why the low fat diet with BF? I'd probably add some back in, especially the good fats; I was actually dropping weight too quickly while BF Natalie b/c I wasn't getting enough of them, had to put them back along with good carbs.

[EloysH]

deb, not by choice, its just how the elimination diet works, once you eliminate all offending foods, you got rid of most of your good fats. Its only like this for 4 weeks then I start the food challenges.   I still have fresh salmon as allowed, I have been cooking it every second day, and also canola, sunflower or rice bran oils.   I have been eating fatty meats like scotch fillet but I don't think that's good fat is it?

[LizzieN]

Thanks for the advice ladies....all good to know!  Geeze I wish her weight would go up more quickly and mine would come down xx

[deb]

Eloys, recent research is showing that fatty meats are actually not so bad. Ditto eggs if you can have them. It's the artificially saturated fats,the trans fats, that are the really bad ones. And frankly, the naturally saturated fats like in meat are being found to be better for people than many veggie oils. Stuff like olive oil, flaxseed oil, and coconut oil are good fats, as is the natural fat in avocados. I actually used olive oil with butter on grains and rice - ghee, or clarified butter, has the milk solids removed if dairy's an issue, but if you can't even use that, then olive oil and coconut oil are just fine, and coconut oil is also stable for high-heat cooking so you can use it for sauteeing veggies or making popcorn or even have a spoonful now and again. Also, those fats contain the good cholesterol that is vital for babies' nerve and brain development, and important for us grownups too, so by all means don't go overboard, but you don't have to cut them out either.

[LizzieN]

Hmm she just did her poo and it was all frothy again (or still)...quite solid at the start (sorry TMI) then runny and frothy, am beginning to think I should cut out the dairy for a couple of weeks just to see if that is what's going on.  Cutting out gassy foods for the last week doesn't seem to have improved anything for her.  It may just be her, but I would feel bad if it was more than that and I didn't try....think I"ll finish my birthday cake first xx