18 month sleep regression support thread

[cath~]

Hi Lily,

Sorry you're having a tough time at the moment too.

No BTDT advice but sounds to me like she might be UT at naptime (that's what L would be like if she were UT, that or protesting loudly about being put down too early!).  IIWM I'd push it back gradually though, perhaps just by 15 mins and see if that helps her settle quicker?

We're making a bit of progress with our issues by capping L's nap to 45-55 mins (depending on how her night sleep goes).  This way, she's falling asleep much quicker at BT and seems ready for it now.  We also haven't had any really long NWs since capping her nap.

However, she still wants us (me or DH) to stay with her until she falls completely asleep at the moment.  We're trying to use GW to phase this out but making slow progress..  The worst is that we have to stay with her when she wakes (once or twice) during the night too (which she is atm - seems to be caused by a cough which is nowhere to be seen during the day ?!).  Then, teething pains are coming and going as she's cutting her last canine and I suspect perhaps her last four molars are also on the move..  Plus a bit of SA going on..  and EW every day..  She used to be such a good independent sleeper, STTN every night.  This phase is soooo frustrating!!

[trimbler]

Hi all,

I'm wondering if we're hitting this regression too?? DS was doing fine on his mini-morning nap/long pm nap routine, he'd had some days where he only slept 10mins in the morning but we figured out a good pm nap time that worked in that scenario, and he'd done some 1 nap days (both nap refusal and intentional). We were hoping to get to the clock change and start 1 nap days at the childminder's then, since we thought he'd effectively be waking up later and so he'd be able to get through till about 12:30, the earliest she could put him down (she also looks after a 2yo so they need to fit around each other).

So as I said it was all going well for that until he got ill Actually we all got ill And so he kept waking at night in discomfort, and gradually got more and more tired... and now we're certainly in OT territory He's never been one to crash when he needs to, he just will not switch off and despite me putting him down early for naps/BT (when he's clearly tired) he just will not settle - rather like Catherine's L, we do the same, although we can't stay too long or he'll get distracted from the task of trying to sleep and start chatting! And, like her, he used to be such a good independent sleeper who STTN'd. But now we get EW at stupid o'clock and he just won't go back to sleep And settling at BT/naps, which used to be within 5-10mins max, is now taking 30-60mins But he's better now, there's really no reason I can see at all for this, other than OT... and ok, OT has never been great news for him, but he hasn't been this bad since he was about 4mo! I'd almost forgotten just how horrible it is! So do you think we're hitting the 18mo regression a bit early?? Or do we likely still have that 'joy' to come? We have no props at our disposal, even if I try bf-ing to sleep (which I last did on the plane at Christmas), in my experience I have to stay absolutely still and not even think of putting him down, and even then he'll only sleep 30mins max. I am so desperate, you know how when you've been ill you also badly need a good night's sleep, and I'm rapidly losing hope that this will ever happen

Right now, he's tossing and turning and babbling and moaning, breathing way too fast to be settling down, and it's 1h since I PD'd for his 'nice long' nap Ok sorry about the rant, guess I had to get that off my chest! And he's just got to sleep so I guess I should be glad about that although I'm not optimistic about how long he'll stay asleep... Oh and we've got guests tomorrow so it will be pretty rubbish if he's like this again (which is likely) - not exactly very sociable to spend lunchtime going in and out to him, and going to the loo almost always wakes him (creaky floorboards) but you can't exactly tell guests not to go during his nap! Aaaaaaaaarrrrrrrrgggggghhhhhhhhh!!!

[cath~]

Hi ladies,
I just read this article about this regression which was slightly reassuring (it IS just a phase!) but made be determined not to start too many bad habits (unfortunately I fear we already have started a few though :S).  The loooong NWs are so hard though when you're already exhausted and have work the next day! Yuk.

http://www.babysleepsite.com/baby-sleep-patterns/why-18-month-sleep-regression-can-be-hardest/

PS Trimbler - yep, sounds like the 18 month regression to me..

[trimbler]

ooh yes, I signed up to their emails too, found her website when DS was 4 weeks old before I discovered this place! She often has interesting articles, if, like me, you've become a bit obsessed with babies' sleep

I'm still waiting for a decent night's sleep... and naps are also rather interrupted/short at the moment so we're still all over the place with routine, but I did have some encouragement last night/today re settling which I thought I'd share (also put it on spirited babies thread so apologies if you've been on there too). I'm sure many of you have tried this with suspected SA already and I know that SA isn't such a big issue generally with DS at the moment, so please take this as a general encouragement that some progress is possible, rather than as something obvious that of course you've all tried already and it wasn't enough!


We had some big SA yesterday when my parents visited unexpectedly - DS was unusually shy when they arrived, he doesn't see them very often but he's usually really friendly with new people. Anyway, once he'd finally warmed up to them and was playing happily, I made the mistake of trying to go to the loo without him - mega oops! Lots of screaming, and he was very nervous after that whenever I even moved towards the door, without any intention of leaving. Even when DH came home he wouldn't let me go (and I thought he was in a real 'Daddy' phase at the moment!)... which made me wonder whether there was some SA at play in the ridiculous amount of time it had taken him to get to sleep that day and previous BTs (1h with wi/wo, previously 5-10mins max)?? Anyway, as I was bf-ing him at BT, I had a little chat with him about how he was completely safe, that I knew he sometimes felt scared and upset when I left him but that he was ok and he didn't have to feel scared because mummy loves him etc. Wasn't sure how much he really understood, he was just looking up at me with serious eyes and shaking his head - so I didn't know whether he was disagreeing or trying to say 'no, I don't have to be scared', IYSWIM? But, to my amazement, he settled immediately that night And despite having had a bad night's sleep overall (partly stuffy nose to blame), he also settled immediately for both naps today Maybe just coincidence, but just because my DS isn't talking yet, it's easy for me to assume that he wouldn't understand that sort of little chat - but I'm sure he understands so much more than I realise!

Melissa - sorry can't advise can only send (((hugs))) but wrt her bms - I've often had this issue with my DS (though he's nowhere near being ready to TT yet!), I just find that if I ensure that we start lunch 1h 15mins before I want him to nap, this allows enough time to dawdle over lunch, be up and about for a bit and then poo (he won't if it's straight from lunch to nap), and have enough time to change him and wind down etc. Have you seen a pattern in how long after a meal she'll poo or what sort of activities help her bowels to start contracting? I know this is only one small aspect of her problems, but I'm afraid it's the only thing I had a thought about!

[lily528]

just wanted to drop in with an update and hopefully not jinx myself..but I definitely feel lucky...the delayed  nap only lasted a little over a week and seemed to rectify when I pushed her naps and BT by 30 mins...just thought I'd share in hopes this may help someone else...

[trimbler]

Hooray, Melissa!

Just wondering if anyone else hit the 2-1 at the same time as 18mo? We probably could have gone sooner, but our childminder can't give DS a nap before 1230 at the very earliest, so we held out with a short morning nap until the clocks changed last weekend and have just had one nap since Friday (at home, so 1130 nap before the time change, if that makes sense?). So, previously he'd have 20mins in the morning, 2h in the afternoon and no more than 5h A time until BT. For the first one nap day, he slept 2.75h until I decided to wake him, then 1.5h, then 2.5h, then just over 1.5h the last couple of days. Previously, that would always mean OT, and he was certainly very tired and sleepy this morning. But, hard as we try to get him an EBT, he's always taking over 1h to get to sleep He's not unduly unhappy, he'll babble for a while and then it's as if he's UT and gets bored and cries. But he's always soooo tired at BT and calms when I go in, acting like he's going to sleep, but somehow just can't So the last couple of days, due to the short nap, I've PD'd at around 4.75h A time, but he hasn't got to sleep until approaching 6h A time or even more... and I thought that with the 2-1 they were supposed to get so tired at the end of the day that they just drop off and that EBTs are supposed to work well at this stage?? Before dropping the am nap, with illness as well, he tended to only get 12-13h a day, but I was expecting this to go up again once he'd dropped the nap. So I really don't know whether he's just having a massive leap in A time that just happens to coincide with his 2-1, or whether he's hit the 18mo regression and is just putting up a fight but we need to keep putting him down early and hope that this phase passes?? The one thing I'm absolutely convinced of is that he's not getting enough sleep, we're even having to wake him in the mornings and he's just so tired that he keeps lying on the floor and doesn't have his usual energy.

Sorry for the tired, stressed-out rambling, but does anyone have any ideas please?

[cath~]

Yay Melissa - that's great news.

We also seem to be over the worst of the regression now. She is settling much better at BT now. However, her last four molars are coming now and these are causing some NWs/EWs, but at least I know they will be here soon(ish) and it is something I can understand (not just general sleep craziness!).

trimbler - we did 2-1 at around 12 months but we're approaching 1-0 now (in that although she still needs a nap, I have to cap it to make sure she's not UT at BT). Still a way off losing the nap completely tho but most days she only needs 1hr-1hr15 nap now.
You said that before 2-1 your DS would have a 5hr A time after a 2hr nap. What happens if you try an even earlier BT, say a 4.5hr A time after a 1hr30 nap? Perhaps he is OT and so having trouble nodding off?
Also, how is his speech? L has just had big leap here and I think that was part of her issue when she had trouble settling recently.
Also, when L did 2-1 it took a couple of weeks or so before her single nap lengthened to a 'decent' length. I think that is common as they get used to the longer morning A time. Perhaps your DS's nap will lengthen as he gets used to new morning A time and, in the meantime a really EBT might keep OT at bay? What do you think?

[trimbler]

Thanks Catherine, maybe we should try the extra early BT again... We have tried 4.5h A after a shorter nap, but it still took 1.5h for him to get to sleep, so not sure whether it was worth it? Also, although he seems tired (yawning etc and fairly calm), he's almost acting UT ay BT - ie when he's really OT he screeches/roars at BT and gets incredibly hyper beforehand. I guess we'll just keep swinging back and forth between early BT and later BT until we find what works?
Speech - still not saying many recognisable words, but there are definitely more sounds in his babbling now.
We had EW this morning (9.5h night sleep) but apparently a better nap at the same time at the childminders (2h but woke briefly twice), so still seems OT but I'd expect that with the long am A time (6.5h). Aiming for 5h to BT...
Glad to see you're over the worst

[clairebear79]

Hi Trimbler

What A time is he doing in the AM now?  Is it fairly short i.e. less than 5.5hrs? This may be a reason why the EBT isn't working so far.

TBH I think use of EBT when you first make the jump to 1 nap is far more relevant for LO's who do the 2-1 early eg 12 months.  At 18 months, they should be pretty able to handle the transition without OT.  Not to say that he's not OT of course, but that your gut feeling of UT is probably the one that's right!  I think they do have a huge leap in A times/drop in sleep needs at the 18 month mark & I think this may be why so many folks seem to get problems.  So I would certainly try some EBT first, simply to rule it out but if it doesn't get you the result you are looking for you need to look at going in the other direction i.e. increase in A times/capping the nap.  Perhaps if he does take a 1.5hr nap again (which really is ok at this age) then you could just give him his normal BT?

I've been capping O's nap at 1.5hrs (much as I hate doing it & would prefer to let him sleep!).  We were doing 5.5hr A / 2hr nap / 5hr A until he hit 18 months then it all went wonky lol!!!!  So we've cut the nap but now a 5hr A time to BT doesn't seem to be enough, even after the capped nap & 6hrs A in the AM.  He also seems to be UT, doesn't look tired, chatting away for ages.  So we have just increased his PM A time to 5.5hrs as of today to see if that sorts us out.  I'm hoping it might get us a longer night so we can do something like:

Up: 7am
Nap: 12.30-2.30
BT: 7.30

This is really the final straw before I either have to cap the nap further or accept we are going to have short nights & let him nap what he needs.

xx

[trimbler]

Thanks Claire, I do feel like he might be having a sudden jump in A times, but as we never had a 'normal' 1-nap day before, having only just made the switch, it's hard to know where we are... Nights haven't been so good recently either, we've had a few 1h+ NWs, but then there have at times been other possible reasons for this (noise from adjacent flats or works on the railway line just outside our flat), so it's hard to pin down what's really going on. Then when he's had a bad/short night I expect him to be on the shorter end of normal for his A times...

At the moment I'm going for pretty much set Up and nap start times, due to childcare constraints, so if he wakes early he stays in his cot until we get him up, in the hope that he'll be kind of resting in there. So it's

Up: 7:15am
Nap: 12:30... (say until 2:30 on a good day, but if he woke early he tends to have a shorter and/or broken nap)
Then 5.25h A time until PD if he's had a better nap, but it's often approaching or exceeding 6h until he actually gets to sleep.

Maybe we do need to increase his A time to BT, but I'm reluctant to cap the nap or extend morning A time just yet, since he just doesn't seem rested enough on less than 2h. It really wasn't that long ago (a couple of weeks) since he was doing a 20min am nap, 1-3 pm nap and was always asleep by 8pm at the latest So I guess we'll keep monitoring his naps to assess that morning A time, whilst experimenting with gradually lengthening his A time to BT... I just always get a little scared to do that, since OT is not nice!

Claire - I assume you meant his nap will be 12:30 - 2pm? I was hoping to eventually get to something like:

Up: 7am
Nap: 1-3
BT: 8:30... before starting on capping the nap, am I right in thinking that 6h A time in the morning is quite usual by the end of the transition? Hope you all start to see better nights etc...

[lily528]

claire...

   Just thought I'd chime in and tell you what seems to be working for us...This is our current schedule these days

8-8:30 wu (which floors me since there was a time we were doing 6-6:30)
1:15-3:15 (most days...sometimes she does play a bit and do 1:30-3:30)
8pm BT

so maybe try pushingthe BT later rather than shortening the nap?  just a thought...trust me the longer you hold onto the nap the better...my son dropped his too early and I regret not trying harder to keep it....good luck

[clairebear79]

Melissa - Glad to hear you've cracked your issues!  Do you wake her from nap or is that what she's having naturally?

Trimbler - yes I meant 12.30-2! 

I'd say the routine you posted with the 1-3pm nap looks good.  Not everyone gets to 6hr A before capping, some people do it earlier in order to keep the day at 12hrs, but TBH I have so far found that DS doesn't cope quite so well with the shorter nap so in a way its probably better if they cut it back of their own accord as & when ready.  Although, it has to be said that if the night is longer they may cope better with having a much shorter nap.

As for us, the longer A to BT really didn't help, at least not after a week of EW, illness & a capped nap, he got horrendously OT so its back to the drawing board with a 2hr nap 12.30-2.30 and a 7.30pm BT.  We've had a better few nights but today he woke a bit earlier at 6.20am happy & chatty, and tonight he took a while to settle asleep 7.40pm, and we've just had a brief cryout at 9.30, and again now at 10pm, so he's probably OT again from the long day.  Ugh I hate UT/OT loops!   I think we need to get our nap to 1pm too, but I am a bit wary of letting him nap for the full 2hrs.  At the moment he's not tired at BT with 5hrs A after his 2hr nap, so I don't see how shifting it all 30mins later will help b/c his A times won't change - they'll still be 6hrs / 2hrs / 5hrs   So I think we wither need later BT or a shorter nap in order for him to be tired at BT.

Can I ask you ladies, how do you feel about doing a much later BT than you have up to now i.e. 8/8.30pm?  Are you finding it eats into your couple time?  We are weighing up the pro's & cons of capping DS's nap versus letting him sleep, but accept that if we do the latter he is going to need a later BT than 7.30pm.  But of course if we do that, then we trade off some of our evening time, time to do jobs, spend as a couple etc.  I don't mean that to sound selfish, I just mean its a compromise.  I'm quite prepared to accept he will need a later BT as he gets older but they are still so young.

[lily528]

claire, she sleeps that nap time naturally...I never wake her...

as for losing couple time...I hear ya...well we have our oldest who doesn't finish up bedtime routine and actually get into bed until 8:30 or so anyway...my dd does an 8pm bt now as I said...but I too was kind of like hmmm giving up some quieter time there...but it gives her a later wake up time too...so for ME that was worth it...I personally think its better to extend the bt then chop down the nap and possibly lose it!   :O

[trimbler]

Well, DH looked after M today, tried to get him down 12:30 (after a slightly EW of 6:45, but still up at 7:15 and fairly calm in between) but it was more like 12:45 and a broken nap. Then he let him sleep until 3pm, which was later than I'd wanted, but he said he seemed to need that little bit extra - which I'm sure was true but then of course everything gets later... Having previously decided to try 5.5h to BT, I stuck to that, and he did settle more quickly (20mins?) but I think we had OT since he was sooooo floppy in my arms at BT, but then sprang into life as soon as I put him down - oops! So I'm not ruling out the 5.5h but will probably cut down to 5.25h or something if there's reason to suspect that he'll be extra tired... Bit more tossing and turning than usual in his sleep this evening, so I'm just hoping this doesn't translate into an OT EW!

Claire - funny, I was thinking just the same about couple time in the evenings. Especially since DH is now on school holidays and so finally doesn't have to spend the whole evening marking etc! (He's out tonight though, so of course I've gravitated towards this forum again...) BT generally seems to be 7:30-8:30 now, at least he's rarely asleep before then and I can't relax until he's asleep! So yes, couple time does get squeezed somewhat, especially when we're working and M has dinner at the childminder's and then we eat once he's in bed... He's got all these films off iplayer that he wants to watch with me at some point, but there's just not enough evening left to watch them. I'm kind of thinking it's a phase and one day M will be able to amuse himself enough so that we can relate to each other more when he's awake, or will be out with friends... But then I know our relationships are still so important now, and we can't just put it off until our children have got older. We certainly haven't 'got it right' yet with this balancing act - anyone have any tips? Or is that on another board?

[cath~]

I'm having similar debate of longer nap+later BT vs shorter nap and earlier BT. I think overall L gets more total sleep with shorter nap and earlier BT so that's what I'm aiming for. Couple time is really important tho - it helps us get through the more difficult patches of parenting!

Can you get a babysitter/family/friend to do BT once in a while so you and DH can go out? Or to look after your LO on the weekend so you can have some couple time then?