Author Topic: 18 month sleep regression support thread  (Read 79333 times)

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Offline lily528

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread
« Reply #150 on: April 05, 2012, 23:34:46 pm »
Yea I think you have to do what works for your family as a whole. I also like the later WU time that comes with the later BT. Being that we have a 7 yr old that is up til 8:30 the earlier or later BT didn't make much difference to "couple time" since we still have my son up until 8:30 so I'd prefer the longer nap. The last few days though she is playing at her 8pm BT until nearly 8:30-9 almost and waking closer to 7:30 than the 8:30 she was doing AND her naps are also about 15 mins shorter these last few days too. Think I'm going to try an earlier BT just for tonight to see if it's possibly OT from an unavoidable later BT we did earlier in the week. She's been crying out in her sleep too which is usually OT for her do hopefully this will help and we'll be back on track ;)
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Offline clairebear79

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread
« Reply #151 on: April 06, 2012, 13:04:36 pm »
Thanks ladies, interesting to hear some different views on this!  We need a 7am WU at the latest to fit in with our working hours as we have to be up, fed, dressed & out the house by 7.30-7.45am on workdays.  So I don't suppose a particularly late BT is really going to suit us. 

Melissa have also had this faffing around, and that was on a similar routine to what A is doing now, only 30mins earlier ie 7am WU, 12.30-2.30 nap, 7.30BT.  For the last few weeks we've shortened his nap gradually to 1.5hrs, he was STILL faffing around at BT so we increased his A time to BT to 5.5hrs but he got horrendously OT.  For the last week we've been back on a 2hr nap, 5HR A to BT & still getting just shy of 11hrs so his morning is now 6hrs long.  Last 2 days we've done just 4.5hrs A to BT b/c he still seemed OT & day 1 we got 12hr night, last night took him 30mins to settle to bed & we got a 10hr night & a 6am EW - gross!

Sooo....back to the drawing board & start capping again.  I've a feeling we need to go radical & cut back to around 1h/1h 15 like you do cath.

Today so far he's super OT from short night + long A to nap (6h 40).  I daren't cap so short today so am allowing 1.5hrs & then I'm gonna try bedtime 4.5hrs later.  This will only be 6.40pm so I will have to hope & pray we get a decent length night.  If not, then we'll be in an even bigger EW OT mess than today lol! Then once we get a later WU of 7am I will cut the nap shorter.  I've a feeling this is the only way I'll be able to keep his day short & his night's consistently long.

18 month regression is great isn't it?!!!!

Offline lily528

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread
« Reply #152 on: April 06, 2012, 13:15:52 pm »
Claire does A add on??? A later BT may not necessarily mean a later WU. It may create the same WU giving a shorter night and allowing for a longer nap. I dunno I just think the nap is super important still at this age to recharge and continue development. MAYBE cap the morning. If a later BT causes A to still be sleeping when you need him up just wake him in the morning....this way you can let him nap as long as he wants and needs and the later BT may cut out the play time at night. Sometimes that's OT right?  I think that is what was happening for my dd.

So last night I went in 30 mins earlier at 7:30 or so to put her down...gave her her bottle but afterward she seemed restless Soo I rocked and sang to her for a bit. She ended up in her crib about 5-10 mins shy of her normal BT but she didn't play for very long like she has been and was asleep a lot sooner. I'd say by 8:15 rather than the 8:45-9 she has been doing these last few days. Which helped cause she slept til 8 today like I was hoping! ;) so I'm hoping this caught her up a bit and put us back on track for a good nap today ;)
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Offline clairebear79

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread
« Reply #153 on: April 06, 2012, 18:08:28 pm »
Claire does A add on??? A later BT may not necessarily mean a later WU. It may create the same WU giving a shorter night and allowing for a longer nap. I dunno I just think the nap is super important still at this age to recharge and continue development.
Melissa are you meaning just put him to bed later & accept that he is going to do a shorter night while he takes the longer nap?

The only glitch I have with this, is when he does the 2hr nap, followed by a 10-10.5hr night, he is absolutely awful the next day with tantrums etc b/c he simply hasn't had enough night sleep to sustain him through the required 6hrs of A time the next day.  I can't shorten his AM A time really either, no less than 5.5hrs anyway, b/c his PM A time would end up silly long like 6hrs or so in order to make a 13.5hr day.

MAYBE cap the morning. If a later BT causes A to still be sleeping when you need him up just wake him in the morning....this way you can let him nap as long as he wants and needs and the later BT may cut out the play time at night. Sometimes that's OT right?  I think that is what was happening for my dd.
Siigh if only I could.  Yesterday, for example, he napped 1-3, went to bed at 7.30, chatted til 8pm & woke this morning at 6am.  I don't have the luxury of waking him b/c he isn't sleeping in.  In fact he's getting up even earlier than usual.  ::)

Letting him sleep at naptime & finding his own BT is something we have certainly considered, because I would prefer to him to wake from his nap naturally & that way I would know that when his nap starts to cuts back its because he doesn't need it anymore & not because I am forcing him to manage without it.  However, I already wake him from his 2hr nap (I've no idea how long he would actually sleep if I let him) so if I stop waking him he will nap for even longer, meaning an even shorter night than we are currently getting & I don't see how 9-10hr nights coupled with  3hr naps will be restorative enough for him YK?  So I don't really see how this is feasible long-term.

I do think his night sleep is more important & I think if he was having 12hr nights then he would cope with a much shorter nap no problem.  And with how long he's staying awake right now with his 2hr nap I don't see we have much option other than capping the nap.

DH held him out til usual naptime of 12.30 (despite the 6am start), of course he was OT by naptime b/c of the short night & didn't settle til 12.40.  I'd decided to cap his nap at 1.5hrs in order to keep the day shorter as for O, long day = more OT, but he woke himself at 2.05pm (1h 25 nap), unhappy, which is for him, is usually an OT nap.  B/c of the shorter nap I've done EBT at 6.35pm, thinking since he already did 6h 40 A time before his nap a 4.5hr A would be quite enough, but he didn't show much hint of tiredness except rubbing his eyes after his bottle & he is still chatting away in bed at 7.05pm.  So yet again UT at bed time put down & he'll probably be OT by the time he goes to sleep so I'll bet we'll get another EW tomorrow.  I think its because he's simply not tired enough after a longer nap.

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread
« Reply #154 on: April 06, 2012, 19:16:41 pm »
I am just reading along and I have to agree wth Claire on the nap vs night. For us anyway. A restorative nap is important but night sleep is where they get the most gain developmentally and to recharge.

We also get awful behaviour and cumulated OT over time with 10-10.5 hr nights and longer naps. I get a happy clam after the nap but that's it, and over time everything deteriorates.

I also thnk that long term the nap will go, so encouraging night sleep is important for healthy sleep habits ate on KWIM? that said, one LOs do fine on shorter nights and long a.

Just my 2 cents ;)
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Offline trimbler

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread
« Reply #155 on: April 06, 2012, 21:44:54 pm »
Oh dear it's all so confusing, isn't it! We've only dropped the morning nap 2 weeks ago so still a bit rocky with that, plus they're doing noisy works on the railway line outside our flat which can interrupt all our sleep... But it does seem with our DS that even if he has a shorter OT nap, he still needs a longer A time to BT than I think, as he just acts UT and doesn't settle for ages if I try EBT. Yesterday, he woke quite early (can't remember when exactly now!) but we didn't get him up until 7:15 as usual, and then he went down 12:30 and slept solidly until 2:35 :) I've kind of got it in my head that if he's well rested he'll probably need 5.5h to BT, but aim to reduce that to 5.25h if not - so, yesterday, we aimed for 7:45ish BT and actually got it!! But then we were all woken by the noise around 4am this morning and DS was awake for almost an hour before we thought to put his nap music on (doesn't have this at night) and it must have helped to block out the noise as he went back to sleep. Still sleeping soundly at 7:15 but decided to wake him anyway, knowing that he would be tired but not knowing how else to try and stabilise his routine... Still got 2h nap, but think he was a bit OT tonight as he took a bit longer to settle, so kind of expecting another EW tomorrow - with or without the noise.

So, I reckon we're now aiming for:

7:15 Up (even if he wakes earlier)
12:30 - 2:30 Nap
7:45/8pm BT - which should allow for an 11h+ night, but this remains to be seen...



Offline clairebear79

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread
« Reply #156 on: April 06, 2012, 21:51:34 pm »
That sounds like a good plan Trimbler. 

I think I'm gonna talk to DH again tomorrow about O's BT & whether we keep the nap at 12.30 & at 2hrs with a later BT or whether we cut it back & keep the usual BT.  I'm sooo torn.  I have to do something though b/c 12.30-2.30 nap & 7.30BT clearly isn't working any more.  Tonight it took him 45mins to go to sleep, this was after putting him down 4.5hrs after a 1.5hr nap.  So his day ended up 6.5hr A / 1.5hr nap / 5.25hr A.  He is also clearly UT & I think I am going to have to spend a few days watching him to try & figure out what he needs b/c watching the clock doesn't seem to be getting us anywhere atm!

Offline lily528

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread
« Reply #157 on: April 06, 2012, 22:13:41 pm »
Awe Claire well if he's usually a mess with a long nap shorter night then i'd agree with you and say cap the nap and let him have his night. I didn't have to consider that because our longer nap later BT gives us a later WU which works for us thankfully so we kind of get the best of both worlds. It's a tough position but you certainly know best.
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Offline trimbler

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread
« Reply #158 on: April 07, 2012, 19:45:59 pm »
Especially since DH is now on school holidays and so finally doesn't have to spend the whole evening Oops!! etc!

Sorry - just had to point this out since my DH saw it! He doesn't 'Oops!!' in the evenings, he marks his students' work, but evidently this forum has something set up to discourage people from m-a-r-k-i-n-g their spot in threads, so consequently we can't use that word at all without it being replaced with 'Oops!!' :)

Anyway, what I was going to say was on a slightly different topic from what we've been discussing recently - bedtime stories. Just wondered whether anyone else's LO has started resisting the end of story time? For a long time we just stuck to the same short book every night, then at around 12mo we graduated to a choice of two (i.e. only one being read) out of a slowly increasing selection. But just recently, when we've finished one, he's been looking around for another - well actually squirming in my arms and making it very clear that he'd be upset if we didn't read another! So now we'll often read two... but this clearly isn't always quite enough for him either - tonight, once we'd reached the last page of the first book, he was already squirming and trying to grab another one... and on the last page of that book, he started doing the same. However I'm afraid I'm a meanie and as I'd already said that the 2nd book was his last, I stuck to my word. Also he was clearly tired enough already, perhaps verging on OT but I'm still trying to work him out at BT, just like Claire is with O. At any rate, I'm pretty sure his frustration about not having more books didn't help him settle... So - is anyone else starting to get this now, and if so, any tips? Try to start BT earlier to allow more reading time? Problem is, he's so calm for his bf but now when we get into reading, he kind of swings between calm/relaxed and excited, so I'm not entirely sure about prolonging that part of the BT routine.



Offline clairebear79

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread
« Reply #159 on: April 07, 2012, 22:09:08 pm »
I think at this age they can start trying to get extra stories/more cuddles/more drinks etc as a means of delaying BT.  And of course b/c they love to hear you tell stories too!  ;) We also find O often asks for the story 'again', or another story etc, but I usually distract with 'its time for your nappy change now' or say no.  The only time I ever allow an extra story is if we started getting him ready a little too early & we have a few mins extra on our hands & then I don't mind at all.  I think this is super important b/c you are then setting the boundaries/limits & telling him he can't stretch it out yk? And you don't end up with them all OT b/c BT was too late.

As for what we are reading, we have a selection of books that DS likes.  I am starting to get him some more grown up books with an actual story rather than just picture books, his favourites of the moment are 'my mummy & me' or 'my daddy & me', and 'peace at last' which was one of my BT fave's as a child too  :)

Offline ZacsMumme

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread
« Reply #160 on: April 08, 2012, 00:46:29 am »
I think at this age they can start trying to get extra stories/more cuddles/more drinks etc as a means of delaying BT.  And of course b/c they love to hear you tell stories too!   We also find O often asks for the story 'again', or another story etc, but I usually distract with 'its time for your nappy change now' or say no.  The only time I ever allow an extra story is if we started getting him ready a little too early & we have a few mins extra on our hands & then I don't mind at all.  I think this is super important b/c you are then setting the boundaries/limits & telling him he can't stretch it out yk? And you don't end up with them all OT b/c BT was too late.
We had this at 14-15 months something terrible, and we still get it when Z is actually OT already - fussing before going into the cot really. Totally agree with Claire. We started 2 stories, then changing them, then realised it was just a 'phase' and had to nip it in the bud a bit.

Now we are back to 1 story but as I said before we get it a bit if Z is OT or borderline OT at BT. x
Z's fav BT book is Twinkle Twinkle Little Star, its adapted from the song but is a story about a mouse that rhymes. We got it when he was born and I didnt realise he would love it so much but its a perfect length etc for his age http://www.barnesandnoble.com/w/twinkle-twinkle-little-star-make-believe-ideas-ltd/1030081159
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Offline trimbler

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread
« Reply #161 on: April 11, 2012, 19:08:09 pm »
Thanks for the books tips, I'm afraid I've just removed (or hidden!) all but two books from his room for now, he definitely has a favourite book to end with, so we read the other one first and then do his favourite bedtime book. He was still looking around for more tonight, but gave up more quickly and with less fuss, so maybe that's progress...?

But I'm still pretty fed up with this regression thing! I can hardly believe that he used to be so good at getting to sleep at BT, whereas now it seems to take him a minimum of 45mins :( And I still really have no idea whether he's just OT from the start, or UT ending up OT, or just UT. Got 9h sleep last night after taking 45mins - 1h to get to sleep and waking very early. Pretty sure that was an OT EW, but also pretty sure he wasn't OT at BT? Not really sure what's going on, sometimes he's quiet for a few minutes when I first put him down but then starts throwing himself around his cot like he's suddenly got a new burst of energy. Often he gets so worked up that one of us has to go it to try and calm him down. Yesterday he must have got himself so excited that he gave himself the hiccups after about 40mins of not going to sleep! And then found it funny! Now he's just chatting away to himself, but I absolutely know he's really tired, especially after that EW and short night. So why, oh why, won't he just go to sleep?! I've even started giving him Calpol and teething gel, just in case, although there certainly aren't any obvious signs of discomfort, I'm just getting really desperate and trying anything - is that really bad?? I've tried getting him down really early, I've tried keeping him up until he's really tired, and everything in between. I've tried a busy afternoon to try and tire him out, and I've tried a quiet afternoon to calm him down. I've tried going in to him several times to calm him down, and I've tried just leaving him to it unless he's really crying.

Anyone have a glimmer of light to share?? IS there an end to all this? Having discussed 'couple time', well ours is practically non-existent at the moment since I just can't switch off until he's finally asleep, so I seem to spend most of the evening stressing that he's not sleeping and then just collapse once he is!



Offline clairebear79

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread
« Reply #162 on: April 11, 2012, 19:30:30 pm »
Oh (((hugs))) Trimbler.  I could have written your exact post!  Our days are going something very similar to yours & its exasperating.  Can you post your EASY for the last couple of days or today at the least? 

We reverted back to longer nap b/c DS seemed to be really OT, but like you, we don't feel DS seems OT at BT so we decided to try a later BT since he no longer seems tired at his usual BT (he's been taking 30mins+ to fall asleep).  So he's been going to sleep at around 8pm after having had a capped nap of 1h 45, HOWEVER the last 2 days he's woken at 6.15-6.30am happy & chatty, and then by lunchtime he is in a right old state b/c his morning was too long after such a short night.  Today we had screaming at naptime (b/c he was OT) followed by a 45-50min nap (shortest we've had in a VERY long time).  He handled the afternoon really well but was utterly shattered by teatime.  Still took him almost half an hour to settle at BT, asleep 6.30pm.

The more I try & 'fix' this the more I am coming to the conclusion that DS has just had a whopping increase in A times/drop in sleep needs.  For him, I find that the later BT that comes with the long nap is just serving to make him OT so I think we will be going back down the nap capping route.  I think he's going to need it capping considerably though if he's not tired at BT with 6hr A / 1.75hr nap / 5.5hr A.

Offline trimbler

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread
« Reply #163 on: April 11, 2012, 20:32:33 pm »
Thanks Claire, sounds like you could do with some (((hugs))) too! Just wondering, what do you do when he wakes early? Get him up or give him quiet time in his cot? I'm not sure how to 'count' my DS's time in his cot when he wakes early in the morning, because it's fairly restful and he's often trying to get back to sleep, even if he doesn't succeed. So even though technically today he had 6.5h A time in the morning, I doubt it was quite like actually getting up at that time and being on the go until his nap...

Our day today was:
6ish EW but in cot and trying to get back to sleep (no success)
7:15 Up (usual time)
12:30 Nap (straight to sleep, v tired!)
2:30 he woke
7:45 PD for BT... 8:25ish? Asleep

But yesterday was:
7:15 Wake and up
12:40 Nap
2:40 he woke
8pm PD for BT... 8:50ish Asleep, then EW at 6am :(

Interesting your observation about increase in A time etc, I do wonder the same, although I'm still too scared to go much beyond 5.5h to BT in case he just gets OT, thinking that if he always takes such a long time to get off then I don't want to end up with him not getting to sleep until 9:30 or something! And then waking up at stupid o'clock! I know our DS can manage ok-ish on 10.5h nights, which is what he was doing (sometimes less) quite recently when still on 2 naps. But I still think 11h is better... Will follow your progress with interest :)



Offline clairebear79

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Re: 18 month sleep regression support thread
« Reply #164 on: April 11, 2012, 21:05:33 pm »
Just wondering, what do you do when he wakes early? Get him up or give him quiet time in his cot? I'm not sure how to 'count' my DS's time in his cot when he wakes early in the morning, because it's fairly restful and he's often trying to get back to sleep, even if he doesn't succeed. So even though technically today he had 6.5h A time in the morning, I doubt it was quite like actually getting up at that time and being on the go until his nap...
We usually leave him in his cot until 7am.  He is generally happy to lay & chatter.  I find this is moreso if his EW is down to UT than OT.  When he wakes early due to OT he is usually not so happy, will sound restless like he's trying to go back to sleep & if he doesn't succeed then he will shout for us.  We still try & leave him as long as poss but might get him up say 15-30mins earlier if he starts getting upset.  I don't ever do anything like PU/PD or WI/WO at that time b/c in my extensive experience with EW I find it is futile - once they have had so much sleep they simply aren't gonna go back over IYSWIM?  I usually count it as full A time b/c although restful in a physical sense, their little minds are still working on overdrive!  But I know some don't count it at all, & others count it as 1/2.

Have you tried the earlier BT route rather than doing the later BT (just incase your BT struggles are down to OT since the transition is fairly recent) or is he having absolutely none of it ???  I'd say yesterday with the 8pm BTPD that may have been a tad too late but then who knows!  I usually aim to have DS asleep by no later than 8pm, so we try & PD between 7.30-7.45.

Its funny b/c I see a similar pattern with your days as we are having.  We are finding we get a later WU one day, followed by a short night & EW, followed by a longer night (catching up from the previous short night) & so it goes on.  I am tending to think this is an UT/OT loop.  UT from long night means short night the next night.  & OT from short night means long night the next night & so on.  Who knows what the next few weeks will bring but I really hope this is developmental & nothing more.  I am so scared to cut his nap short in case in a few weeks he needs a longer nap again.  I would soooo much prefer to let him nap what he needs but it seems he is using his nap to take what he's not sleeping at night (since I always have to wake him) & the long nap is simply killing his nights & making him really OT.

I'll keep you posted if I come up with anything!