18 month sleep regression support thread

[stardust599]

Thanks Sara!  I think the hardest thing is not knowing what to do for the best.  Don't know if you've read our story but I did CC with Macy a couple of times between 7 and 10months and then read all the stuff about how damaging it is for LOs and kind of went into panic mode and to the other extreme end of attachment to make up for things.  I still panic and cannot bear to leave LO to whimper for a minute while I do anything in case she thinks she's abandoned!  Thankfully by then LO was already self-settling so we didn't create any props.

Now I have just realised how unhealthily attached me and LO are.  Most of the problem is my own anxiety.  We live in a small flat that's reasonably baby proofed but I never leave LO to amuse herself even for a second while I pee.  I have been watching myself today and realise that even if I am moving across the other side of the room I hold my hand out for her to come with me or scoop her up (oh dear).  I take her in my shower, for a pee, to answer the door, to get a glass of water etc.  so she isn't getting any chance to develop any independence.   Even when washing the dishes or cooking I sit her up on the unit next to me and chat/play (no wonder I never get anything done) rather than leave her playing and pop in/out to check on her.  She has taken a mental leap this past month and I think is suddenly now able to associate sleeping with being left alone and she doesn't feel confidence alone.  Even in the car today I realised I only last a minute or two before getting an overwhelming urge to turn round and reassure her and talk to her even though she's absolutely fine!  It also dawned on me that we keep her bedroom in the dark with the door shut all day and it's only used for sleep even though it has about 100 toys and it's a lovely room it's probably so unfamiliar!  So I have a lot of things to work on in the day time too.

Anyway, after that rambling my point is that when I put her down and she does her "scared" cry I'm frightened to leave her just even for a minute.  I get to the door and turn around to go back in and OH points out to me that I haven't even given her 15 seconds to calm yet and that if she needs me she will still be crying after a minute and I can go back in.  So I have been trying standing outside the door reassuring with my voice every few seconds and it seems to work.  Strangely enough I have never been afraid of leaving her when she does a furious or frustrated cry with OT but it's this new cry that really scares me!  Last night when I had to make a bottle and leave her crying for about 40 seconds (time the microwave takes to heat it!) I was so upset and flustered, dropped the bottle, left the fridge and cupboards open, spilt Calpol over the units etc.!!

[clairebear79]

I think Oliver is starting to recover from his illness now.  So much for secretly hoping, I knew this 'routine' & plenty of sleep would be short lived lol!  Last night after having had a 2hr nap 1-3pm, he took 30mins to settle at BT, asleep 8.25.  Had to wake him just after 7am this morning for work.  He napped 1-3pm again..... and lo & behold he's chattering away up in bed again & its now 8.20pm.  And this, even after having a shorter night last night - you'd think he would be tired right?  I'm 100% certain its not OT either.

I honestly don't like to ever wake her in the morning or from a nap...I never really have...I just feel like if she's sleeping she needs to be...the only time I found it helped and did do it on occasion if I really had to was during a transition of dropping a nap.

I honestly wish I could do the same as I HATE waking O.  I actually think though, that part of this 18 month 'regression' is a natural drop in sleep needs, & I also think its the very very start of the 1-0.  It seems that while some kids will keep their nice long nights & cut back their naps naturally, others will keep the lovely long nap but at the expense of their night.  We are one of the latter.  

So I think since this is the very start of our 1-0 & Oliver is cutting back on his nights, I don't see where else we can go except to intervene & cap his nap shorter again.
  
Oliver is already doing a 6hr A time in the AM & napping at 1pm, and BT is already at 8pm so I don't want to have to do a later BT, especially when I have to wake him at 7am on work days.  So I think since this is the very start of our 1-0 & Oliver is cutting back on his nights, I don't see where else we can go except to intervene & cap his nap shorter again.  I think I am going to trim it back to 1h 45mins from 1pm, but keep the 8pm BT.  What do you think ladies?

(((hugs)) Stardust - I can totally relate since O is touchy too.  It is so hard but I think that you are right - half the battle is letting go a little & allowing them to gain some independence for themselves.  O was much the same - came everywhere with me, & tbh he still often comes if I go upstairs, but he does it of his own choice, climbs up by himself & entertains himself while I take a shower/ go to the loo etc.  He is also getting better at waiting for me in a different room.  If I go upstairs but shut the door to the stairs behind me leaving him downstairs he totally freaks, but if I leave the door open he is quite happy to come & stand at the stairgate & wait while I go up.  He can see upstairs & chat to me etc & he's not shut off on his own.  I think you'll find over the next couple of months as her speech improves you will find she'll gain so much more independence. 

[ZacsMumme]

Now I have just realised how unhealthily attached me and LO are.

I don think you can be too attached sweetie...and it is so much easier to gradually teach independence knowing they hve trust in you and feel secure braving the world than to try to force them to be loving, trusting, gentle children.
As Claire mentions gradually teaching independence at this age should work a treat At first you may not see much progress, then bam, she will no doubt suddenly be playing on her own for 30 mins

My Z is pretty touchy and attached too. It used to worry me - people would say he is clingy. But he is also now very independent and determined when he wants to be. I know in the long run, as a child and a teen this will help him to be a better person, friend, lover etc.

this new cry that really scares me!

I have to admit, Zs cry through this regression was AWFUL, heartbreaking really.

I HATE waking O.

I feel your pain. I hate waking Z, but if I dont he sleeps for 3hrs and then wont sleep at night!!!!! So much for regulating himself lol

[clairebear79]

I feel your pain. I hate waking Z, but if I dont he sleeps for 3hrs and then wont sleep at night!!!!!   So much for regulating himself lol

Exactly!  O would totally do same!

He finally went to sleep at 8.25pm, so bring on tomorrow!  I just know I'm going to feel guilty & want to let him sleep in but I know its not helping things as he needs his 6hr AM A time.  Think I may cap at 1h 45 again as from tomorrow.

[stardust599]

Hope you get things sorted eventually Claire!

So, our later BT is not helping :-S  Yesterday and today WU has been at 6am meaning only 10.5hours sleep.  And LO is one grumpy and tired little madam today!  We only had 1 NW last night though and LO settled herself after just 3 or 4mins of mumbling and crying!  I think I'm going to take a break from A times, nap times etc. for a few days because I seem to have gotten a bit lost and I think I'm now overthinking things and making things worse. Quite often I will see she's tired in the evening and think about starting BT routine but then I think to myself "Oh, but she's only had 3 hours A time so better not" but really I should be following instincts first :-S  Just going to plop LO down when she's tired without checking the clock and doing the same at bedtime and then re-think in 3 or 4 days.

[cath~]

Hi everyone,

Sorry, haven't had a chance to read through everyone's posts properly but just thought I'd post a quick update.

I don't want to jinx things but I think we are now (finally!) at the tail end of this regression (I don't want to scare anyone by saying when it started though ).  The regression itself has prob actually passed but due to the 'props' we used to get through it (staying with her until asleep and co-sleeping after NWs) we had/have a bit of sleep re-training to do to get back on track.

The good news is that, once L was ready for it, the sleep re-training is going really quickly and smoothly.  In about 7 days we have gone from staying with her, often with a hand on her, in her room for about 50 mins at BT until she was in a deep sleep, then creeping out, and co-sleeping from about 10pm onwards (on average, sometimes earlier) after a NW, to now where she goes to sleep independently again (sometimes with 1 or 2 WIWO at BT) and stays in her bed all night.  Last night was best yet with no WIWO at BT with just 1 NW when I went in to see her and she calmed pretty much immediately and I was able to leave straight away and go back to sleep.  Hoping for a STTN sometime soon...

Anyway, just wanted to say that what you read about them suddenly coming out of the regression does seem to be true.  We had to do some re-training but she's getting back on track so much quicker than I would ever have hoped.  So hope the same will be true for others in the same boat.

Oh, and SA also seemed to be a big part of our regression too.

[ZacsMumme]

So great to hear Catherine
This is a tough one alright. We had two great days and STTN, but yesterday Z was so tired ALL day. I let him sleep longer for his nap as he had EW (Hadnt had that in ages) Last night we had 1 NW and I heard him in the wee hours of the morning. Then an EW of 5.45!!!! So as expected (and see my post above ) This is what I get for letting him have a long nap and EBT!

Catherine - Its also nice to hear you mention SA. I think this is the root of our 1 NW. When Z wakes he settles fast with just acuddle from me and then goes back into bed awake. Unless .... its a teething or NT waking

So even with an EW - Z want out of his cot till 6.45. I am going to hold his nap out till 12 at least. Cap at 2hrs from PD and then BT a min of 5hrs15 later. And X my fingers!

[clairebear79]

stardust - sorry later BT hasn't helped - bum suggestion on my part.  Sounds like a good idea to just watch her for a few days & see what she does.  Just bear in mind tho that she may well have a few days catch up, then suddenly start to resist naps/BT and/or EW all over again - that certainly seems to have been our experience over the last couple of months.

Glad all is getting better at your end Cath.

Good luck tonight Sara!

We've had an awful day today.  O had a very restless night - courtesy of UT at BT leading to OT by the time he went to sleep.  And of course b/c he went to sleep sooo late, he was still sleeping at 7am this morning.  Against my better judgement, I decided to wake him at 7.15am so as to keep the rest of his day on track but I tell you now I wish I hadn't b/.c that was the 2nd shorter night in a row & I have paid for it today with tantrum after tantrum after tantrum.  I kept him up 6hrs A this morning (did nap a touch later due to later WU) & I woke him at 3pm. He's been foul all afternoon too.  BT was 8pm & he has settled much better than the last 2 days.  Just hoping & praying he has a solid night's sleep & we don't get an OT EW tomorrow.

I don't feel so stressed/concerned about it now tho b/c I know for sure what I need to do & that is to cap his nap.

[stardust599]

Ahh Claire that's okay.  Got to try everything before we rule it out!  My own idea didn't work either, I thought I'd get back on track by just watching her then everything would be fine *rolls eyes*.  I PD earlier today -11.30 since she seemed whingy and tired and we still had a bit of crying (not major but still upsetting) and then she only slept 1hour15mins - that shows me.  And was in meltdown by 5.00pm and refused dinner.  Ahh.  So BT at 6.30pm and I really can't see her sleeping any later tomorrow so all I have managed to succeed in doing is move her day even earlier.  Oh well, I tried!  Think we will just go back to keeping her in cot until 6.30, fixed nap at 12.30 and BT at 6.45-7.15 depending on nap length.   I honestly don't think anything helps when she's in these phases and we just have to ride it out and it gets better on it's own!  Remember a month ago when I was complaining about 13hour nights and monster naps, well now I wish I kept my mouth shut and just went along with it!! 

Hope you have a better day tomorrow.  What length are you going to cap his nap?  I would go for 1hr45 for 2 weeks.  Then try 1hour35 if it's still not working?  But stick out the 2 weeks first!  We have had an awful day today too with tantrums tantrums tantrums and clinginess!  I always try to blame LOs poor behaviour on OT but TBH she isn't showing that many tired signs and if I can get her out and engaged in something and she's getting her own way she's in a perfect mood.  I think it's just her personality :-(


Good luck tonight Sara - hope Z sleeps a good 11hours or so ;-)


I also have a quick question for everyone... how do your LO's react when they wake in the morning?  LO used to lie in bed mumbling or chatting but the past couple of weeks she SCREECHES as soon as she's awake.  It's not an upset or distressed cry just a screechy whinge that drives me insane.  It starts to wind me up before I'm even out of bed and then it goes on and on all day just now!  I struggle to keep LO in the cot until 6.30 now as I can't stand the noise any longer I just want to get her up for it to stop.  We still use a monitor but I usually turn it off when I hear her since I can hear her through the wall and don't need to hear it any louder!  I then sit waiting to get up as I can't leave the room as LO hears me (live in small flat) and screams to get up!  I can't even pee or brush my teeth before going for her (and of course she demands breakfast the second she's up too so I still don't get to pee/wash face/brush teeth for a good 20mins each morning.  It's starting to stress me :-(  How on earth will I manage a hungry baby in the morning too?

[stardust599]

How was everyone's night?  We had no NWs but a 5.30am WU time.   My own fault for messing up yesterday I think!   I managed to keep her in the cot til 6.30am but she was screeching and whinging to get up.  I went in at 6.45am to lift her and she'd just fallen back asleep and was not happy at being woken.  I have a feeling we could have AP'd her back to sleep with milk and a cuddle at 5.30am but if I'd gone in the SA would have started when I left and OH refused to get out of bed! *sigh*  My LO is in a horrendous mood too - absolutely melting down when not getting her own way and throwing her food, cup etc. back at me :-( 13 days since we had MMR - I really hope it's just a side effect and this will pass within the next week.  How on earth will I do night feeds or unsettled-ness with a newborn/baby and then get up with a grumpy toddler at 5.30am?

Today I am thinking of just going back to a fixed nap time of 12.30?  Then if it's a 2.15nap like I expect I'll do a 7.15 BT?

[clairebear79]

Hi stardust.  IIWM I'd probably just gradually shift naptime & BT back towards usual time over 2-3 days rather than all at once, esp from such an early start, b/c my LO would be in a mess if I kept him up all the way to 12.30 from a 5.30 wake. If she will handle it ok though I'd say just go for it.

WRT your Q about waking in the morning, usually O will wake chatting & happy.  If he wakes grumpy, moaning or crying its usually b/c he hasn't had a long enough night, either through OT, or b/c UT led to a short night (night 1 is usually ok but 2-3 short nights & he'll be foul in the morning).  I do think that you need to be brave & get up if you need to pee or brush your teeth though!  Even if she hears you, she really can wait.  OK she may cry, but its only protesting, its not because she needs you.  You have to do what you need to do in the morning before you can put your mummy hat on & deal with her.   (((hugs)))xx

Well ladies after capping his nap yesterday 1.20-3pm, O went right to sleep at 8pm & STTN.  I woke him at about 7.15-20am b/c he was still sleeping & I wanted to let him have as long as possible.  Thing is I know we CANNOT have long nights AND long naps.  Its one or the other.  I'd rather he had the long night but ATM he doesn't seem to be too OT with an 11-11.25hr night & a 1h 45 nap, so that's what we're trying to stick with.  That said he didn't settle for his nap today until 1.30pm, he was chattering for almost 20mins.  So in excess of 11hr night means we get nap resistance even with a 6hr A time.  Whoa!!!  Looks like he'll only be having a 1.5hr nap today, I can't really have him napping past 3pm or he'll never be ready for BT at 8.

xx

[stardust599]

Claire that's exactly what I'm doing :-)  I realised halfway through the morning that there was no way I'd be able to push her out to 12.30 in the mood she was in!  So we did PD at 11.45, 5mins crying then 2hours15mins sleep.  She has woken in a much better mood thankfully.  She woke mumbling and I had 5mins to make the bed and open the curtains etc. (was napping) before going to her.  Then she was excited as she spotted all her teddys in the cot and kept saying no when I asked her if she wanted to get up! Haha.

What time would you suggest BT?  She woke at 2.05pm.  I was thinking PD at 7pm then that's 5hours A (bearing in mind this is on the higher end of LO's afternoon A capability but I do think her A times have increased recently)?  And if we have an 11hour night again that at least gives us a 6am start to work with tomorrow.  I am awful nervous about tonight as it will be my first night since all the crying that OH won't be here for support at bedtime!    I am still feeling quite upset about it.  We can stay with LO for over an hour and eventually end up doing WI/WO (as she won't fall asleep with us in the room) but it takes 1 - 1.5hours and ALOT of crying.  If I tuck her in and let her have a cry she has about 2 or 3mins of crying and then goes off.  I'm not sure if it's even as long as that - by the time I've walked next door to the living room, taken a few deep breaths and sat myself down she's stopped.  I am hoping that it's just down to feeling poorly with MMR as she's had an on/off temp, in a foul mood and not eating very well.  I will medicate tonight and give some Chamomile Tea and extra cuddles.

That's great.  It sounds like O is really getting back on track!  I would wake him at 3pm too or BT and naptime will keep getting later and later.  Hope he pulls another great night!  I think you are going to find that a fixed cap time might not quite work and you will have to vary it.  Some days like today you might have to wake at 1.5 but others 1.45 and if you've had a bit of a blip and OT is creeping in you can do 2hrs.  I have no idea how you manage until 8pm, most of my friends LO's don't go down until 8 either.  By 6.30pm I've had enough and want LO in bed so I can get my house clean and tidied and refresh myself enough for the next day!  I'm in bed by 9pm at latest usually though.

[clairebear79]

I have no idea how you manage until 8pm, most of my friends LO's don't go down until 8 either.  By 6.30pm I've had enough and want LO in bed so I can get my house clean and tidied and refresh myself enough for the next day!

TBH its a struggle!!!!  I like my evening time too & I have to admit the housework is suffering.  TBH I'd rather have him going to bed at 7-7.30pm but with a 7.30pm BT & 12.30 nap we were getting 6am wakes, with just 30mins later he's sleeping in til past 7am.  Does it make any sense   Nope.  But if its working then I'm leaving it be lol!  I've had my absolute fill of early morning waking with this LO, so IMO sacrificing a wee bit of evening time is worth it so we can all feel well rested.  And b/c we're not getting up so early I can manage with a slightly later BT myself.

How are you feeling in yourself?  Getting exhausted yet?xx

[ZacsMumme]

Claire, great o is sleeping well for you.
I also prefer an EBT for Z, DH and I like a bit of Y time early on in the evening as DH gets up for work early during the week. I do also get though that if it doesn't work, it can be more of a nightmare with EW etc lol!

We had a NWat 10 again he behaves like its teeth, but I'm not sure asits kind of always at similar time. He was so awful yesterday PM I had to medicate at 2pm so it could well have been pain.

At least we had reasonable WU of 6.45 again

[stardust599]

I'm okay Claire, almost 30 weeks now :-)  I was hoping that all our sleep troubles would be a thing of the past by the time new LO arrives but I've realised it just gets worse as they get older!  I have had fatigue/exhaustion all the way through - I still go to bed at 8-9pm and nap during the day too.  But glad I've finished work, it seems to be making a difference to my energy levels!  How was O this afternoon after waking at 3, was he ready for bed at 8 and did he settle well?  Hope he did!  I would much prefer a 6.30waking than an 8pm bed but I'm not very energetic in the evening!  But I agree, 6 is way too early for me too!  At least it's Summer and you can still get out in the evening with O :-)

I did a 7pm BT here.  LO settled well, much less crying (it almost sounded fake "aha aha aha" type) and was in a good mood up until about 6.20pm then started eye rubbing, tantrumming and wanting carried everywhere *rolls eyes* but she didn't put up too much of a fuss at bath/PJ time and drank all her milk.  I got a funny video of LO being a madam at tonight and refusing to get OUT of the cot to get in the bath - shaking her head no and laughing at me because she wants to carry on playing in the cot (I've been putting her in there for 10mins and she doesn't seem to mind being left awake so maybe it' not SA?), this is the same refusal she does at getting ready for bed! I don't know how to upload it though but it has cheered me up after our recent BT fights!

Great WU time Sara!  Shame about the NW and rubbish mood, does he have his canines yet?  We have popped 4 canines last week so I'm hoping we get a little rest before the final molars come in.  Would like them in before baby though!

Then are there any other sleep regressions I have to watch out for?  Probably be unsettled when new baby arrives?