18 month sleep regression support thread

[clairebear79]

Sara - how are things going?

Stardust - perhaps do 2h 15 for next few days until she is better, then why not cap at 2hrs?  1.5hrs would be quite a jump when up to now she has always had such long naps.  And I think a 2hr nap is a pretty good & restorative nap so you shouldn't feel bad for waking her.  If you ask around on here you'll find most mums do wake their LO's b/c there comes a certain point when 'deliciously long naps' as Tracey calls them, start to eat into night sleep.  So at the end of the day, if it helps her to sleep longer at night & she's getting more sleep overall, then its for her benefit.

A few things I have learned, having (hopefully) come out the other side of this regression are that
1) Oliver is suddenly more sleepy again - YAY!!!!
2) he needed his nap pushing to 1pm & so he was doing a consistent AM A time of 6hrs (rather than 5.5hrs)
3) he needed a slight nap cap at 1h 45. 
4) PM A time has stayed the same at 5hrs

HTH ladies.xx

[ZacsMumme]

Stardust - perhaps do 2h 15 for next few days until she is better, then why not cap at 2hrs?  1.5hrs would be quite a jump when up to now she has always had such long naps.  And I think a 2hr nap is a pretty good & restorative nap so you shouldn't feel bad for waking her.

I was going to say the same thing.
Had written up a reply but have a screaming child this morning so it never got posted before

We are good. Z was knackered yesterday so EBT at 7. We then had 5.20am giggling!!! Then back to sleep till 6.30am. I think I need to push that nap out later a touch - maybe cap the nap at 1hr45 after a few days if nothing changes - What do you think Claire?

Im reluctant to cap the nap yet, if moving it can work as Z is so tired while teething.

[stardust599]

Well, BT last night was 7pm after waking her at 3.15pm (so 3hour CU nap).  OH says she went down for nap and bedtime without crying but he does like to make out that she settles better for him than me so I suspect he's telling fibs and she had a little cry ;-)

LO is back to normal.  Woke at 5.05am this morning with a moan.  I switched the monitor off as I always do when she wakes early and waited for her to call out for us but she didn't until 6.45am!!  So I think she must have gone back to sleep in between as she doesn't seem tired!  No idea what time she went to sleep or her actual WU though!

I am torn today!  I really want to take LO to soft play as the weather has been horrendous but it means going to another town and LO will more than likely fall asleep on the way home in the car meaning only 45mins all day.  So I can do EBT to make up for it.  But I feel like we are making progress and am really nervous about messing things up and back to square one!  Can't let sleep rule our life though can I :-S

[clairebear79]

Sara - what is your routine looking like now?  What is his usual A time in the AM - 5hrs or 5.5???  It does sound to me like you need to push the nap later a bit, esp if he keeps waking early.  That is usually the sign for us to push things out too (I say this in retrospect as I never realise it at the time lol!).

Stardust - IKWYM about being torn about straying from routine - I'm afraid I'm a stickler though so I try & keep to it wherever possible - I even did on holiday!  But you are right we shouldn't let sleep rule.  What did you do in the end?

We've messed up a bit in the last 24hrs, its been going so well with up 7.15, nap 1.15-3 & BT 8pm.  But it feels like his whole routine is shifting a bit late, so PD 15mins early for nap & BT yesterday.  Well, he went right to sleep at BT, but we got a short night in return.  What was I only saying yesterday about keeping his AM A at 6hrs being really important!!!!  Duh!!!!

To top it off, after a 6.30am WU (which ok isnt so bad but is 45mins earlier than usual) he was at nursery today, he didn't settle well for his nap, took 30mins to fall asleep & then only napped 1h 10.  He ended up doing almost 7hr A in the AM, a 1h 10 nap & so we did EBT at 7.15pm, and he didn't fall asleep until almost 8pm.  We're going to have one OT boy on our hands tomorrow.  Thank the Lord he is going to grandma's!!!!

[ZacsMumme]

SO yesterday he was tired all day. It must be the molar (#3 top left) cutting. He cried out during his nap and so I let him have a bit longer. Then he went to bed a bit later and then we had a problem in his room with hte monitor. We had STTN but a single cry out at 5.15 up for day at 6.40 - out of cot at 7.

SO here is our typical day now
WU 6.30/6.45 usually and out of cot at 7.
Nap 12.15 for 2 hrs
BT 7.15

My thought is to first try nap at 12.30 today...wake at 2.30 and BT the same? Last time a 15 min first A increase helped - and we kept BT the same.

(HUGS) on the rough 24 hours Claire x  

[stardust599]

Hurray for grandmas ;-)

I'm a sucker for routine too.  My friends are always exasperated at me as I keep turning down lunchtime playdates etc. as it just interferes with naptime and isn't worth it for us!  I live in a small town/village about 45mins from my parents and sister (in the main town) though so generally once/twice a week we go for a visit and it messes our routine as if we stay the whole day LO won't nap even AP'd (unless I go a long drive out of town but she still only does 1 sleep cycle) and if I go early morning and come back early around 11am LO still falls asleep in the car and won't go back down the rest of the day.  I haven't missed routine at all the past 2 weeks.  Didn't go today, LO was really quite grumpy and tired by 9am so we just went out walking and to park.  Going to have to brave it tomorrow I think though.

I couldn't bring myself to wake LO :-(   I just couldn't do it!!!  She was in an awful mood all morning and I really really struggled to keep her awake.  Decided just to stick with the fixed nap at 12.30pm as it's always worked before in the end to discourage the EW. She slept 12.25pm - 3.25pm (woke naturally) and was very happy on waking and in a lovely mood for Daddy coming home so I am quite glad I didn't wake her.  I thought she had a slight fever again today, I think her top canines could still be sore?  I can just feel the tip but the gum was really bulging and she was dropping saliva like a hungry labrador all day!  She was pretty tired by 7pm and starting to tantrum and was rubbing her eyes etc. and asking to get out the bath so went to bed about 7.30pm.  I know that I can't keep these long naps and the reasonable BT though :-(

Still letting out a good scream at BT/naptime!  She kicks, arches her back etc. while rubbing her eyes and fighting against us as we get her into her sleeping bag and try to get her to sit quietly then screams once we put her down in the cot but it literally lasts less than 2 minutes and then she's sprawled out Zzzzz-ing.

I think I am going to wait the rest of the week to see what happens with the EW before starting to cut back on naps.  I figure that I've never had to do it before and if I keep her getting up and PD times consistent she might just adjust herself - she is normally quite good at capping her own naps.

Sara - yes I would push out that morning A slightly since his WU is creeping earlier x

[clairebear79]

Agree Sara.  I would def try 12.30pm start for his nap.  Then see how he fares WRT BT.  He might need 7.15pm still, or you might need to shift it on to 7.30.  Perhaps keep it the same for a week while you push out the nap.  If his WU doesn't shift any later or he is struggling with the longer A to naptime, then try pushing BT 15mins later & see if this helps his WU get nearer to 7am.

Stardust - sounds like a good plan.  x 

[ZacsMumme]

Thanks ladies
So Z was happy as a clam come 12.15 then when I PD at 12.30 he did a tiny whine a few mins after he was in bed. Its odd as he seemed tired at 11.30 but I think that was partially being in the car and partially teeth (I gave pain meds at 11.30am) I feel confident he 'shouldnt' be OT as he had a solid 11hrs last night AND he has been doing the A before (15mins diff) for a long time

We will see what this nap brings

[stardust599]

How did the nap go Sara?

We did BT at 7.30pm after LOs 3 hour nap.  STTN.  Single call outs at 4.50am and 5.25am ish!  But not actually awake until 6.20am and very happy.  So the long nap definately has to go :-(  Wish she would cap it herself, I think it's because of the earlier wake she is OT when I put her down for nap meaning she does a very long CU nap.  So I don't if I can fix this without capping.  So I either need to cap the nap or go for an 8pm BT.  Not sure which I think is worse yet!

Not quite sure what we're doing today either.  We have toddlers from 9-12 then I was thinking of going to visit my Mum and sister so LO would catch 45mins on the way and then another CN on way home or an EBT.  But I don't want to go backwards :-(  So I could always come home for nap after toddlers, let LO have her 3hours then go visit Mum/sister and come back after dinner and do the later BT.  Or I can wake LO after 2hours15 and let my Mum and sister deal with the grumpiness :-D and then come back for normal BT - my fear being that she will fall asleep on way home because I've capped the nap and then end up even more UT at BT :-S

I guess that in the end the only way to break the long nap/short night cycle is to cap the nap!

[ZacsMumme]

I woke him at 2.30 and BT was usual 7.15... Will see how the night goes!

I've always had to wake Z from his nap, but I found a long nap short night didn't restore him as well as a capped nap and longer night, hence why I have to cap. Something to maybe think about hugs it isn't fun capping naps

[stardust599]

Ugh I'm feeling so lost :-(

LO has been so unhappy this morning - warm/hot but not a high fever.  Grumpy, tantrums, throwing food at me etc. and rubbing her eyes.   I don't know whether she's ill, teething or just OT.  She's not poorly as such, just "off" and clingy and moody!  We went to toddlers group but left as by 11am as she was awful - normally she's brilliant at toddlers group :-(  Speaking to the Mums at the toddlers their opinion was just to keep putting her to bed when she gets like this, let her sleep and wait for her to come out of it.  She is sleeping already 45mins earlier than usual.

I'm not going to cap today either, LO will be horrendous this afternoon if I do!  I am keeping a note of her wake, nap times etc. and think I may carry on like this and see how much influence her naps and BT actually have on WU time.

ETA - What a strange day!!  Horrific morning, very OT!  LO then slept 1.5hours only from 11.45 - 1.15pm and woke chatting, singing and laughing!!  Fantastic mood all afternoon, got to visit my sister and family.  Home for 6.20pm and really rushed BT as she had been eye rubbing etc. since about 5pm, it was all very matter of fact rather than my usual drawn-out wind-down, put LO down at 6.40pm and NO CRYING - how amazing!  But then at 7pm I could still hear her mumbling, rolling etc. and went in and she was just laying quietly awake playing with her teddy.   Maybe not enough wind-down as rushed BT?  So tucked her back in and left and she has now been crying on/off for 5 mins - sounds like her OT fussing/crying (she is quiet now in the time I've take to write this) :-S  What happened here?  Would you have left her or gone in like I did to make sure she knew it was BT?

[trimbler]

Hi again, can't catch up with you completely I'm afraid - I blame it on M not getting to sleep until silly o'clock leaving me with very little evening... and naps haven't been so great on days when I'm at home with him either... so I'm back on again for a quick moan before giving up on this present nap!

Claire - hope things are going better again now? I really hope that day comes soon when M's sleepy again! At the moment (ok for the last couple of months at least!) he's just been so hyper and still finding it really hard to wind down, I just don't know what to do, I try putting him down a bit earlier if I know he's really tired, but he still doesn't get to sleep until around 8:30pm nowadays, and that's way too short, especially when he wakes early around 6:30 - not all the time, but too often for my liking! So today he was actually still asleep at his usual get-up time and I made the mistake of letting him sleep 10mins longer, so I woke him easily at 7:25 and went for usual nap time at 12:45... slept about 1h 10min I only let him sleep longer as he had got himself into one of those silly OT loops where he was sleeping less and less well the more tired he got... now that's backfired horribly and he'll be so OT if I aim for his usual BT but will most likely take at least 45mins again to settle anyway and blah blah blah...

I'm beginning to wonder about trying for a 1pm nap now, we've only just moved it to 12:45, capping at 2:30, but it doesn't seem to have made any difference to the time he gets to sleep at night, it just means he gets more OT as he's getting less daytime sleep?? So now I'm not sure, do I try stretching him longer in the morning, keeping the 2:30 nap end time and hoping that it will finally make a difference to his night sleep?? Or keep to 12:45 for a bit longer and hope that something improves? It does often feel like the cliche mistake of doing the same thing again and again and expecting different results! But then I never really know whether it's routine/teething/development. We're suddenly getting lots of words now and he'll wake early from a nap or night sleep going 'tick tock, tick tock' - he's really into Hickory ory Dock at the moment! So I'm wondering if it's not even routine related but he just has lots on his mind... really no idea what to do about that though!

So anyway, sorry for the one-sided rant, I'm afraid I don't feel like I have any advice to offer whatsoever at the moment, since nothing's working for us

[stardust599]

Hi trimbler

First a big hug, it's so hard sometimes isn't it :-(  Honestly the best piece of advice I can give is not to upset yourself and dwell on things so much, sometimes our LOs just go through phases where nothing we do helps and we just have to wait it out - good sleep WILL come to you again!  I think there is a big developmental leap going on around this age - I know that my LOs understanding and speech have suddenly shot through the roof, she can suddenly eat with a fork, answer no/argue with me and is really discovering and asserting her independence.  Their minds must be completely in overdrive at this time!

So LO is napping 12.45, capped to 2.30?  And what time are you putting down at for BT and how long does he take to fall asleep? 8.30pm is very late with such a long day and capped nap!

Today's nap looks UT to me hun.   I guess 7.25WU was after a good night?  Then that's only 5hour10min A to nap time and most LOs here seem to be taking a big jump towards 6hours morning A around 18months.  The longer morning A also helps to discourage a shorter night/EW!  You are right that he will now be OT at BT too as that short nap can't sustain a long enough A to BT :-(

I hope I helped a little, we are only just learning and discovering toddler sleep and I'm sure the girls will be here with more input soon.

---

Edited my last post re M's sleep to save confusion of writing about today again!

[lily528]

TBH its a struggle!!!!  I like my evening time too & I have to admit the housework is suffering.  TBH I'd rather have him going to bed at 7-7.30pm but with a 7.30pm BT & 12.30 nap we were getting 6am wakes, with just 30mins later he's sleeping in til past 7am.  Does it make any sense   Nope.  But if its working then I'm leaving it be lol!  I've had my absolute fill of early morning waking with this LO, so IMO sacrificing a wee bit of evening time is worth it so we can all feel well rested.  And b/c we're not getting up so early I can manage with a slightly later BT myself.

I feel the same about the later BT...but I have an 8 yr old too that isn't in bed until 8-8:30 anyway so I am not really losing much but it IS harder to have them both up but worth the later wu time. 

She is all over the place...days of the perfect schedule as I've posted in the past 8-8 and a 2+ hr nap but then once in a while she throws in a 7 am wu and a 1 hr nap!  I don't get it...I am trying to just roll with the punches and keep doing what we are doing because more times than not she falls back into it...guess every day can't be the same....this is such a hard thing to go through...sleeping and eating can be such a stressful part of raising these precious little ones...thank god for this forum right?! 

[trimbler]

Thanks stardust - what you described about tonight is pretty usual for us, sometimes I think it's UT turning OT, sometimes just inadequate wind down (but as I said I have no idea how to calm M down nowadays), sometimes I even think he's asleep but then realise he's not... sorry can't be any help other than to say we get this too.

So, what we've been trying recently is:

0715 Up (but he may wake as early as 0615 on a bad day)
1245 Nap (capped to 1430)
2000 BT - maybe once a fortnight he'll fall asleep quickly, the rest of the time not until 2030-2045. But whenever we've tried an earlier PD (say, 1930-1945) he's not fallen asleep until about the same time, and it has usually felt more like UT than OT, unless he's had a run of EWs/bad naps, in which case he's OT by BT but again, earlier PD doesn't seem to help either.

Yesterday he'd woken early after a short night (something like 2045 - 0615?), got him up 0715 and kept same nap times at the childminders but knew he'd be more tired than usual even though he didn't seem so tired, so DH did PD at 1945 (I was out) and it still took him until 2030 to get to sleep. So that's why I let him sleep a bit later and stuck with the same nap time - guess I won't be doing that again!

Today he's had a rough afternoon after that short nap and I PD'd at 1930 thinking it'll probably take him at least 45mins to get to sleep again and indeed he's been throwing himself around his cot squeaking and talking loudly (and 'tick-tock'ing!), 25mins in and he's starting to get quieter but he often goes through several loud/quiet phases on the way so I'm not holding my breath just yet!

Is it quite common for these LOs to just need a long time to wind down in their cots by themselves around this age? He just doesn't seem to calm down with me whatever I do and it pretty much always takes a silly amount of time to get to sleep whatever we do with his routine. I'm wondering whether I just need to accept this now? I guess I'm a bit desperate to get some evening back and some more sleep myself! Not to mention having the possibility of getting a babysitter without them having to put them to bed or keep going into him - I know that he wouldn't take very well to that! [Oh dear it was looking a bit hopeful just then but the phone rang...argh!]