18 month sleep regression support thread

[ZacsMumme]

Hugs trimbler, we went through the long BT settling a while back. I agree with stardust. I think you may need to push that nap later, then keep BT the same, or even earlier. W have been moving our nap later over time and BT generally stays the same, or a touch later. When I tried to push it too much I got long settling at BT too...slits so hard know if UT/OT or just a loop isn't it!

Well ladies yesterday was
WU 6.35 out of cot 7
Nap 12.30-2.30
BT 7.15

WU this morning was 6.30 STTN fingers crossed for tonight!

[lily528]

My friends are always exasperated at me as I keep turning down lunchtime playdates etc. as it just interferes with naptime and isn't worth it for us!

Mine too..many friends and family get upset with me when I miss things due to her nap but I'm sorry I'M the one who has to get up at night or early in the morning or spend a week to get her back on track so no it's not worth it to me either...or to her

[clairebear79]

phew you've been a busy bunch!  here goes....

trimbler - I agree with the ladies.  Your situation is so very similar to what we've had with O & things have been so so much better here since I pushed his nap later to 1/1.15pm.  I have had to cap at 1h 45 though, as with the 2hr nap he won't settle until 8.30pm.  And I HAVE to wake him by 7.15pm latest so he can get his 6hr A time in - any less & it means he is UT at BT - its made such a difference to us.  I've tried to pull his nap earlier by 15mins in the last couple of days & mucked it all up, but what was working really well for us was:

Up:   7.15 (I was waking him every single day)
Nap: 1.15-3.00 (capped at 1h 45 or he is UT at BT)
BT:   8.00 (put him in bed 7.50pm & straight to sleep)

stardust - yk, I think that may have been an UT nap today, esp since she woke so happy.  I agree with Sara, in my experience, O also struggles with long nap / long day & does much better with slightly shorter nap/shorter day.  Simply because if he takes a 2hr nap his 2nd A is longer, so he ends up doing 11.5-12hrs total A time in a day rather than the 11hrs max he does if his nap is capped at 1.5-1.75hrs.  You are right she is only doing such long CU naps b/c she is waking early & so she is shattered by naptime.  But why is she waking early?  Because her nap is too long.  If you cut the nap back & her nights start to lengthen, you might find that after a couple of weeks of longer nights, she won't need such long naps & her nap will naturally start to cut shorter.  Think of it as just starting her off on the right track!

well, after yesterday's long day & short nap, Oliver only slept 10h 50 overnight boo!  Up at 6.40am.  MIL held him out til 1pm for his nap but he short napped again 1h 35 today.  Not so bad as only 10mins short, but he had massive bags under his eyes tonight ugh!  And he didn't settle until almost 8pm AGAIN.  Siigh!  I'm home with him tomorrow so I hope he's not too grumpy & tired!  

ETA: forgot to say Sara I think that looks good for today so hope you get a decent night's sleep!

[stardust599]

Hope O had a better night!  Maybe go for 2hour nap today if he is quite OT if you can manage to fit it in without making him UT for BT :-D

No idea what's going on here.  You're right that yesterday was UT as she was in a great mood afterwards.  Just really strange that she was so OT in the morning!

LO had a 11.5hour night after her short nap. Woke at 6.30am in a pretty rubbishy mood so we've been outdoors all morning to keep her going.  She kept going to drift off in the pram (never does this!) and I was having to distract her or get her out to walk so she still hasn't caught up yet!

Home, did lunch at 12 and PD at 12.25 - LO was pretty shattered by this point and rubbing her eyes and getting a bit obnoxious - kicking me, screaming etc.  On PD she just started bouncing around the cot so I left and there was no crying.  15mins later she is still chatting, rolling etc.  I think I pushed her too far :-(  This happened at BT last night too which would have been OT after the short nap and long afternoon A.  Will hold out 5 more mins and then go in and tuck her in and tell her it's sleep time or she's just going to carry on for an hour instead of napping (edit, once again by the time I've finished typing she appears to be asleep)!   OH thinks that I should just leave her as she needs to learn to fall asleep on her own again without screaming, WI/WO etc.  but I feel like I am wasting valuable routine minutes when she's just carrying on!

OH thinks we should start to cap around the 2hour mark, I don't see we have too much choice any more as we now have a poor morning mood due to OT and then a happy afternoon mood after CU but still UT at BT!  So I think I may just have to bite the bullet and start today.  I feel pretty awful starting when she hasn't fully caught up yet but she isn't going to catch up until we get a long night and we aren't going to get a long night until I cap so I don't have much choice!  Not quite sure how to go about waking her though as she always needs 5mins to moan and wake up a little before we go and get her or she spends an hour screaming :-S  I am hoping that I don't have to cap long term and I think she may start to nap between 1.5hours - 2.15 on her own if we can get back to good nights.

[clairebear79]

(((hugs))) Stardust I don't like it either but it is exactly the same scenario for us - if I don't wake him its at the expense of his night, and he'll never cap his nap naturally unless he has a long night so its definitely the only option.

When I wake Oliver I just put the hallway light on, or open the curtains (you could do this say 5mins before you wake her & see if it helps to rouse her naturally), or I just gently stroke his cheek or his hand & say Oliver until her rouses.  Generally he will take a few mins to come around & then he is totally fine.

We had a better night last night & I woke him at 7am.  We are sticking with a 7am WU & a 1pm nap for 1h 45 to see if I can get his bedtime pulled back by that 15mins.  That said, he didn't settle for his nap until almost 1.10pm, he was just chatting away up there, so we're not really going to get as early a bedtime as I'd have liked as it'll need to be 7.55pm if I let him sleep his full 1h 45mins.  Def no way I'm doing 2hrs again - he won't go to sleep til 8.30 so its just not worth it anymore.

[stardust599]

LO wakes at the slightest noise (usually by screaming) so that's why I was worried about waking her!  But I just opened the door between living room and hallway, turned the TV up and started pottering around and she woke herself within 5 mins.  Not sure if she'd have woken anyway :-S

Today -

WU 6.30am
Nap (PD 12.25) Sleeping 12.45 - 2.50
BT 7-7.15??

How does that sound?

Edit - LO was tired by around 6pm and pretty inconsolable by 6.15pm.  With Daddy's help we held out and PD around 7.05pm, no crying or chatting etc.  Hope we haven't pushed her too much today - tonight/tomorrow will tell us!

[ZacsMumme]

SD your EASY looks good. I do the same with waking, I try to open the door. Though sometimes I have to make a bit of noise now
Well we had BT at 7.10 (opps 5 mins early) and a NW (seemed like a bad dream/nightmare) at 1.45 gross. Still sleeping now at 7.10 am so off to wake him

THings are so much better than they were, but still not quite right...I hope we are at the tail end of this regression!

Claire - How did your night go ofter the short nap?

[clairebear79]

stardust - think you did right there hun or you may have ended up with another short night due to OT from long day but UT at BT.  I do still think you may need to very gradually work on shifting her BT out, but for now just keep with your 12.30-2.30 (capped nap) & 7pm BT for a wee while & see what happens.  It may take her a while to get past the OT she has built up.

Sara - glad all is feeling a bit better for you.

Night was better thanks - woke him at 7am (11hrs) he'd very definitely have slept in for longer if I'd let him.  He had his 1h 45 nap today & went right to sleep at BT so I'm hoping we're back on track now.  My plans to bring it all 15mins earlier were completely foiled - it seems we're back at a 1.15 nap & 8pm BT so I'll probably allow him to sleep in til 7.15 tomorrow!

[stardust599]

Thanks Claire.  I know you think we should push out BT but I do prefer an earlier day than most.  I would much prefer a 7pm BT and 6am WU to an 8pm BT and 7am WU :-S  I really don't want to do BT any later than 7pm and would much rather adjust the rest of the day to suit than do an earlier BT.  We are normally out of the house by 8.30am to get the dog out before toddlers groups etc. and OH is up around 6.45am latest so I like LO to be up by then too.  Plus we always come home for lunch at 12 and I like LO to be down as soon as possible afterwards and then when she wakes we still have the whole afternoon.  Can't have it all my own way though ;-) I don't mind the earlier WU as long as LO is going to do at least 11hours at night and wake happy! 

LO is really restless and we've had a few unhappy call-outs - hope we're not in for an EW!

[clairebear79]

stardust.  ok, that's fine.  I was only suggesting later BT on the assumption you wanted a 7am WU!  Well that, and b/c IME doing under 5hrs A to BT after a 2hr nap at this age will just lead to a short night. 

I think just keep trying the 2hr nap & see how she goes - don't forget she will already have accumulated some OT from all the shorter nights & very long mornings, so if she does wake early tomorrow don't assume that it is entirely down to capping the nap.   You are capping the nap because her nights are short & so it might take a wee while for her to get caught up on any OT she's accumulated & for her wakeup to get later, so I think you need to give it a shot for a good week or 2 before making a decision as to whether its helping or not.

I'll keep my FX'd for you though!x

[stardust599]

Ah things are going downhill :-(

LO had a good night, very restless up until 10 or 11pm with a few cry outs but once she settled down she was fine and didn't wake until 6.30am which was a good 11.5hours.  She was happy on waking so I thought we'd finally gotten it right but by 9am she was awful with tiredness :-(  All I've been doing is trying to keep her awake.  She's spent the morning yawning, rubbing her eyes, hiding, lying on the floor with her dummy and bedtime teddy and I had to pop out to supermarket and she was falling asleep on the 10 min journey :-(  She was too tired to eat a single bite of lunch too so has gone down starving meaning she'll probably wake after an hour!  This girl cannot cope with OT at all!

Tried to stick to our 12.30pm nap but wish I hadn't now, think I had completely missed the sleep window as by this time LO was super hyped up and frustrated and screamed at me all through wind-down, climbing off me to play, throwing her bedtime stuff away, arching her back when I picked her up etc.  PD at 12.20pm and she was back to absolutely furious OT screaming and standing up and saying no.  She isn't screaming now, just rolling around and fighting it but FX'd she settles soon.  Not quite sure what I will do with todays nap length, will have a think once I relax a bit and see how I feel.

[clairebear79]

hope she settles well hun.  I hate to say it but I think that while she continues to have such a short A to BT she will keep waking earlier, meaning too long an A time to nap for her to cope with.  Only other thing I can come up with, given that you prefer the earlier WU & BT is to bring the nap earlier to start at 12.  Then she can be up 6.30am, nap 12-2 and bed at 7.  This gives her 5.5hrs A in the AM and 5hrs in the PM & is the routine we had for a good couple of months with a 2hr nap (albeit 30mins earlier), before we needed to cap it shorter.

We had a decent night from Oliver & woke him at 7.15am after 11h 15 sleep.  Put him down for his nap at 1.05pm aiming for 1.15pm asleep & he's still chatting away in bed now at 1.30pm.  This has been happening every day this week, so it looks like his AM A time is increasing beyond 6hrs now.  So.... looks like I'll either have to limit his night sleep to 11hrs, OR cap his nap shorter to 1.5hrs.  We're running out of day to fit it all in now!

[stardust599]

Hmmm.  Maybe something else other than tiredness is bothering her?  As she woke herself after 1hour55mins max and was still grumpy and tantruming the rest of the afternoon but I didn't catch her rubbing her eyes or yawning once, even before BT, usually the only thing that affects her behaviour like this is OT :-S  Guess it could be developmental though as boy does she like to argue with me now.  We had a 25minute tantrum because she couldn't take her trike outside as it was heavy rain!!!  And a good 15minute tantrum this morning too as we were doing water play and she didn't want it to finish but she was soaked, sticky and cold, this is all new to me!

I put her down at 7 and think she was actually slightly UT - uh oh could be in for EW!  But she did go to sleep instantly with a smile and no crying etc. 

I don't know what to do with our day now :-(  I really really don't want to have her awake any later than 7pm!   But then if I'm doing that I really do need to move that nap earlier don't I or we are going to have OT at naptime and UT at bedtime for the forseeable future!  And 12pm is such an inconvenient time for a nap as we'd have to be home by 11.30 for lunch and most of our groups are still on then :-S  There's not much point in aiming for a WU after 6.30-6.45 as Daddy gets up then and she just won't sleep through it unless we're in one of our luxurious sleep phases!  So could I aim for -

6.30 - 7 WU (probably waking when she hears Daddy?)
12.30 - Nap (aim for as close to 5.5 hours A as possible and cap at 2hours)
7.15/7.30 BT (aim for 5 hours A from WU?)

I guess the later BT might not be so bad as once baby is here I can try and get baby into an earlier routine and then get some quality time with LO at her bedtime.   Plus 7.30 isn't that late really, it's just because I have awful pregnancy fatigue and I'm in bed by 8 most nights that it seems late!

Hope O's sleep doesn't drop too much, I don't have any advice for you as we haven't got there yet :-(

[clairebear79]

stardust - that's exactly the routine we had for quite a while & it worked really well for us.  To my mind, that is a better solution than an earlier nap - I was just throwing it out there as an alternative for you lol!  I wouldn't change anything just yet though, keep going as you are with the 2hr 12.30pm nap & 7pm BT for a good week or so & see what happens with her WU before deciding if BT needs to go later.  That way you are just making 1 change at a time IYSWIM so you will know if its helping or not.  If you cut the nap AND push BT & it goes wrong you won't know which is to blame.

x

[stardust599]

Well, BT needs to go later :-(  Bugger!!  WU at 6am very happy.  So around 11hours sleep which isn't exactly UT but I need that WU later or she isn't going to make it until 12.30 and her day is going to get earlier and earlier.

What should I do today?  We have a group that finishes at 11.30 so by the time we get home for lunch etc. the earliest I could PD would be 12.15, that 6hours15 A though so we're likely to have a little upset and fight at naptime with OT!  Then I was thinking of 2hour15 nap (to CU from long morning) and a 7.30 BT.  But if she takes a while to settle at naptime I'm going to have to still wake at 2.30 I think or won't have enough A to BT or do you think it would be okay to leave it at 2hrs15.  Saying that, there's a good chance she will wake herself naturally just before the 2hour mark as she has been but maybe not today if she's OT! :-S So "tweaking" day would look like

6am WU
12.15/12.30 - 2.30 Nap (2hrs - 2.15 depending on time taken to fall asleep)
7.30 BT

... which will hopefully give us a 6.30-7 WU tomorrow meaning I can stick to 12.30 - 2.30 nap and 7.30 BT and this can be our new routine?  Sound about right?

I can't believe this is the end of my LOs lovely long naps.  Why why why did I ever complain :-D