Help - 5 1/2 months, started waking every night, 40 mins after going to bed??

[kirey]

5 1/2 month old has started waking every night after 1 sleep cycle, (40 mins). Has never done this before and has been going on for about a month now. EBF and I'm in the bad habit of feeding him till he's just about asleep, put him on shoulder to burp and then put in cot.

Normally active for about 2 to 2 1/2 hrs then shows tired signs. (eye rubbing, getting a lil fussy). I try to respond to this immediately.

Day Naps - He will only ever catnap 40 mins if in his cot and usually has 3 per day.
Will sometimes nap for around an hour and a half  if in the pram, car seat or seat in the lounge.
Sometimes needs boob to fall asleep then place in cot, pram, seat etc. Othertimes can put on shoulder and pat for 5 to 10 mins till very drowsy then put down to sleep.

Will not take a dummy, have tried many times, just spits it out.

I try to stick to a 3 or 4 hr feeding schedule but as he fusses sometimes for a feed before a nap, i feel this messes up the routine as he's never "really" very hungry and just snacking all day.

Has then been waking around 9pm, 10pm for a feed. ( Tried the DF months ago and made no difference so dropped it) Seems like he's waking himself for the DF now. Then wakes maybe 1am then usually around 5-5:30am . I feed him on all of his night wakings and he settles very quickly with no fuss.
I play a lullaby cd when putting him to bed for the first time only each night.

I know I've got some bad habits but really just would like to figure out why he's started waking 40 mins after he goes to bed every night.
thanks.

[JayLeigh]

I could have written this post some time ago, my big AP was breastfeeding to near sleep. Even if he doesn't fall asleep at the boob, it can get him most of the way there. DS got in the habit of waking for a feed, and even start waking a little early in anticipation of the dream feed.  DS also would wake at 40 minutes for a while. Perhaps time to sleep train again, and break him of the boob to sleep.

My little guy was EBF, total booby baby, and it was so easy to just wake and feed him back to sleep rather than fighting him, but he is getting too much at night, and he is probably used to it now.

[kirey]

Hi, here is my very random EASY, every day is so different and he mainly only naps 40 mins, other days he might nap an 1 1/2 hrs. Here goes..

A - 7am
E - 7:15am
A - 7:40am
S - 9:15am (notice tired signs at 9 but can take up to 1/2 hr to get to sleep, sometimes pat                                while on my shoulder to get drowsy for sleep, sometimes fusses for boob to sleep, can't                                     ever just put him in cot to self settle.)
A - 10am
E - 11am
S - 12:15 pm  ( again, see above )
A - 1pm
E - 2pm
S - 3:30pm     (see above )
A- 4:15
by the time 5/5:30 comes around, he's so tired and hungry I dont know whether to try to stretch him out to about 6 for his feed so that he doesnt go to bed so early, or top him up at 5pm and then dinner feed at about 6:30pm. If I top him up at the 5 pm mark, he just falls asleep cause  and doesnt really eat as much as i know he should. If I stretch him out till 6:30ish , again he's still so tired and just goes to sleep before a full feed.
His bedtime routine really is just some nappy of time, changing in to pj's and then a feed before sleep. Tried his bath in the bedtime routine and found it keeps him awake, it seems to excite him and not relax and calm him. Have also noticed that if playing in his jollly jumper after 3pm he wakes in the middle of the night wanting to play.

S -  7Pm. (on an average day, he's asleep by 7 or quarter past.)

some days he eats 3 hourly, others 4 hourly.
Wow, when i read this easy, it looks so terrible!
Please help.

[JayLeigh]

I agree with Jane, you will probably have to go through sleep training, as he can't seem to fall asleep completely on his own, do it now, while he is still young enough to accept it very quickly.  We had the same problem at this age, come to find out I was the problem!

Have you blacked out his room to help him sleep for naps? Also, you may want to try to start extending his A time for about 5 minutes at a time to see if he sleeps for naps a little better, once you start getting better naps, don't extend anymore.

[kirey]

Ive done sleep training before with him when he was just over 3 months old. It did work and only took about 4 nights training and he was sleeping thru till 5:30am each day.(on and off for maybe 2 weeks tops, very radomly tho) The sleep training only worked on putting him to bed, couldnt get him to self settle during the day.
The thing is he only does something consistently for a few nights and then he completely changes to something else. He so inconsistent and has no pattern that i can work out.

The last 3 days now he's had his forty min morn nap and a 2+ hour nap later in the day.?? He's rarely slept that much during the day. I just cant work him out.
Last night he was up till 11pm, after finally settling at 7:45pm, then waking 40 mins later. He was so awake, i fed him, that didnt work so i tried the cry it out method with regular visits to soothe him, he cried for over and hour, so out of frustration i got him up, he was up and playing till 11pm!
So, he starts getting tired, i fed him and put him back to bed, he slept thru till 7am. woo hoo. some sleep at last.

I do have blackout curtains so I'll black out his room today to see how he goes. The strange thing is that when ever he's slept past forty mins for day naps, its always in the pram/car seat/rocker etc. Always in the daylight and amongst noise.

I'm starting to feel like I'm failing him as a mother. I just cant figure him out to give him what he needs.

Thank you so much for helping. xo

[JayLeigh]

It seems to me that he needs some more consistency from you, and definitely re-training. This wont be as big a deal as last time because you have already trained him once, but he needs to get back on track. I had to retrain several times because of sickness/milestones/accidental parenting. But it was worth it!!

The blackout blinds provide a consistent environment that make him comfortable with going to sleep.

You are not failing him as a mother, many moms on this board deal with the same issues. You are a good mom for reaching out, but you need to try and help him now.

BTW we often gave in and did the same, got him up when he was fighting us, sometimes it is something you need to do out of desperation, but at that point they are running on adreneline and wont show signs they are sleepy. Next time only let him up for an hour max and try his sleep routine again, what do you do for a wind down routine?

[kirey]

I realise now that I really dont have a very good wind down routine as I've really only fed him to sleep.

Normally what I do is give him so nappy off time on the floor, then  he's changed into his pj's and put into his grow bag, then feed him till he's almost asleep, burp him on my shoulder, he then drifts off further and I put him down. 
I turn on a lullaby cd after he's finished feeding and I'm burping him on my shoulder. He pretty sleepy by this point to have even let me put him there.
 
I've also been trying to stretch him out to stay up a lil longer ( as he was wanting to go to bed at 5:30pm)
How ever i've just remembered that  before i was stretching him out, i was giving him his dinner at 5:30 pm and putting him to bed and these are the times he would sometimes sleep thru till 5:30am. ( so i'm guessing stretching him out is just making him over tired.

I'm ready to sleep train him ( and me!) so I have bought the Baby Whisperer Solves all your problems book and have read the chapter on PU/PD method,  I have asked my mum to come and stay over for a few nights to help keep me on track when my patience runs low. 

Could you please suggest an example of a  wind down routine for me.
I have to bath Corey in the mornings as I've tried the feed /bath /bed routine and the bath gets him so excited he cant sleep.
As i write this message he just woke 20 mins after i put him to bed! argh!

Is it ok to play a lullaby cd, and if so should it be still playing when he wakes after the first sleep cycle?
Is it ok for him to sleep in a totally dark room or should there be some kind of light at all?

Thanks, again. 

 

[JayLeigh]

Wind down routines can include things such as music, rocking, reading, nursing/bottle, just don't let him rely on those. For DS it was bath, reading till I could tell he was calm enough, breastfeed (with the lights on to keep him awake), lights out and a 30 second song, then say key phrase (ours is "night-night")

He may do well with some tiny light in the room, so he can understand where he is. For us the baby mopnitor lights works perfectly.

Stick with the sleep training and it will pay off. You will find a TON of support here.

[kirey]

I'm back after a 6 days of Sleep training using the PU/PD method. I had my mum come and stay for the week for support too.
This method worked like magic for us and on night 1,2,4 and 5, he slept thru till 6ish every morning with no NW at all, ( was previously waking 40 mins after going to bed and sometimes thru the night)
His naps thru the day got better and he acutally did 2 naps of more than 1 sleep cycle! wow!! never before has he done this.

Ok, so mum goes home on night 6 and it all reverts back to the old habbits. He woke at 9:30 and was almost in consolable for and hour and a half. finally he went back to sleep with no feed/props after i carried him around all this time.

Night 7 he woke 40 mins after going to be and pretty much cried for 2 hours. Nothing i could do to calm him. Eventually I ended up feeding him because it was 4 hrs since his last feed and i figured surely he must be hungy now after screaming for 2 hrs. He fed really well and settled quite easily, then slept thru till 5:50 am.

Is this just him reverting back to old habits??

Also, how long can he stay on my shoulder when i notice he's closed his eyes and relaxed his body. Should he go straight into the cot at this point? Should he already be there by then? 

If he wakes in the morning at 6am should i aim to have him in bed by 6pm that night. I read somewhere that babies days are 12 hrs so I'm wondering whether I'm keeping him up to long by putting him to bed at around 7pm regardles of what time he rises.


Thanks again.

[JayLeigh]

You will definitely get some regression, stick with it though. At his age it could take up to two weeks for him to fully accept it all.  Have you ruled out pain? Sometimes they don't understand why they are in pain. You could try meds before bed, one or two nights and see if that helps.  Sometimes they just work themselves up so much, you just have to console them any way you can.

I tried to put my LO down when he was relaxed and drowsy but not asleep, and follow with a shh/pat if he starts to stir, or if you think he might go off, just put a hand on his back.

If he is up early for the day, yes I would aim for just a 12 hour day, put him down a little early, and hopefully he will sleep a bit longer. Not all LOs can handle it, but I would often extend my son's day by about 15 minutes, so I could just get him back to his normal times!

Hope that helped

[kirey]

I gave him panadol on the last 2 nights that he woke after trying everything else first.
Oh, he also started solids  (rice cereal) 2 days ago on ( on the first night that he started waking again) .

He has again woken tonight 40 mins after bed. I tried to keep him in the bedroom so as not to wake him up too much or think that its time to get up. Eventually ended up leaving the room and he stopped crying. It almost seems like he wants to be up with everyone, but he's rubbing his eyes and crying on and off. 
Could he have day and night mixed up and think he's only taking a day nap?
 Again, I ended up feeding him after exhausting all other options, he took a good feed and then I was able to put him back to bed after a few PU/PD and shush pats.

Really confused as to whats causing this.
I also tried to make his day only 12 hrs. He woke at 5:50am and I had him asleep at 6:50pm. Still woke 40 mins later.
 
Also wondering if the minipill ( microlut ) could be causing this in some way as I noticed i started this pill at the same time he started waking 40 mins after bed.

So many questions....

Thanks, Kirsten.

[JayLeigh]

I think there is a good chance that you may need to cut out the cat nap! When DS got to this age it was time for him too, and even if the cat nap was only a few minutes long I found that if he fell asleep too frequently during the day his night sleep would be interrupted. If he is not falling asleep easily for his first nap, it may be time to extend that first A time. Even if he is showing sleepy signs, it may be habit because that is what time he goes down for a nap.

For now, I would hold off on solids, just to eliminate that as a possibility of disrupting his sleep. Maybe too many changes at once. 

If you can eliminate that last cat nap I would suggest a very early bedtime, even as early as 6pm. Hopefully you will get a nice long night out of him as a better start for the next day. Don't be afraid to go back to it if he is very OT, but I think his A times need extending.

When he starts crying do you give him a minute to settle on his own?

[kirey]

Hi, This was our Easy Yest. (mon, when he woke 40 mins after bedtime)

woke at 5:50am
E  6 - 6:20,  solids 6:40 - 6:50
A  6:50
S  8 (till 8:40)
A  8:40
E  10
A  10:30
S  11 (till 11:40)
A  11:40
E   1:40 (seemed very hungry,  couldnt last 4 hrs this time)
S  2:15 ( till 3pm)
A  3:00
E  5:30 BM and Solids
S  6:40pm  (Tried putting him down a lil earlier than this time. We did the usual wind down routine which is feed , story in his room with dim lighting, then sit quietly for a minute, turn on lullaby cd then pat on shoulder for a few mins to get drowsy. He was so awake for all of this I decided to wait a lil while and try again later. When i returned to his nursery later to try again,   he would cry unless the lights were on. I then was able to pat on shoulder to get drowsy, ( with cd on)  turn light off and then put him down. ( he was aware the lights were turned off and went into cot knowing he was there) .

He then woke 40 mins later...

[kirey]

So we're up to day 10 i think and now bedtime has turned into a 2 hr screaming session, i cant even calm him down by holding him so I dont even get a chance to put him down now.

Have eliminated hunger, nappies, tried medicating but just seems like temper tantrum.

Really confused as to what to do now,??
Is this just him regressing back to old ways...

[JayLeigh]

Kristen, have you ever gotten longer than 45 minute naps? It seems like he is caught in an UT/OT loop!

Is his room blacked out? Those 45 minute naps are going to make him OT by the end of the day, and he will not sleep as well.

What is his wind down routine?