Any tips to help me get more calories in him during the day?

[~inbalance~]

F is eating a substantial amount at night still.  Basically he feeds about every 3hrs around the clock.  He feeds twice during the night usually (between 11-12 and 2-3), but they are longer and more efficient feeds than anything he does during the day.  I know he is waking hungry every 3hrs or so because he's not feeding efficiently during the day, but I'm kinda at a loss as to how to get him to eat more.

He only feeds for 5mins per feed, one side only.  I have not figured out how to get him to take more.  It's like he only eats enough to satisfy himself but not really get properly full.  He does go 3hrs until the next feed though.  Often he will mess around during a feed and not really eat that much, generally just popping on and off.  If I offer the second side he just pops off an smiles at me until I give up.  Even if I wait for a bit he won't take it usually.

But at night he will gulp properly for 5-10mins during his feeds.  I want to try to transfer some of the nighttime calories to the daytime feeds, if that makes sense.  He's getting enough in total, it's just evenly spaced out throughout a 24hr period.

We'll be starting the transition to a 4hr EASY in a few weeks.

Tips? 

[~*Nicole*~]

I think if you slowly work towards the 4 hours he'll start taking more at each feed and if you do the same overnight, slowly elongate the stretches between feeds and offer less he'll eventually balance out. Or maybe try a tanking up type feed (I've known a few moms to have to do split feeds for very spit uppy babies) and offer him a smaller feed and then maybe 20 minutes later another feed and see if he seems to nurse for longer than his usual one feed length. Sort of treat it like a daytime only growth spurt. Then ease off the nights and work on spacing them out....then go back to working on the 4 hourly routine?

Did that make sense? I'm a bit tired and felt like I was babbling a bit.

[EloysH]

Martina, we have the exact same problem    but now that Ds2 weight gains have come to a halt I am in two minds about stretching feeds from the 3-3.5 hours currently doing, my mummy instcint kicks in and says "feed him more often, pump that food into him"  but looking the theory he needs to be stretched to that full 4 hours.

[~inbalance~]

Nicole, made perfect sense. 

I can't split feed, if he eats even just a little bit he won't eat again for at least 2hrs but usually longer.  He's finicky with BFding, I don't think he particularly loves it, more he sees it as something he needs but would rather get on with it, lol.  F certainly couldn't be bothered to spend more time at the boob than he has to. 

Stretching the feeds is probably the way to go.  And I imagine he will still wake hungry at night for awhile so I need to be prepared for a few rough nights while I'm slowly weaning those night feeds.  I honestly don't mind that he wakes to eat as he goes right back to sleep and I'm only up for 10mins, but I know he should be eating those calories during the day.  Don't want problems down the road! 

Eloise, I totally know what you're saying about thinking we should pump the food into them.  It's tricky when your LO isn't gaining as well as you'd like.  I think for you as well stretching the feeds will be the way to go, so Kai is eating more effectively at each feed and not little snacks.

I think F is naturally predisposed to be a snacker, he only seems to want a bit at a time.  He is doing well and gaining so far, but I would still like to see him eating better during the day and not so much at night.  It won't be long until it's a hard habit to break, kwim?

I was thinking of trying something like a 3/4hr hybrid eating routine - feed him, then offer again an hour later for a top up, then make him go 3hrs.  So his main feeds will be 4hrly but I'll offer little snacks to get him to that point.  Once it's established I should be able to cut out that little feed.  Then I think I need to stretch out his nights, maybe re-incorporate the DF (I've tried to establish this on 3 separate occasions, giving it fair chance each time, but he still woke often).  So my plan would look something like this:

7am feed
8am top up
11am feed
12pm top up
3pm feed
4pm top up
7pm feed
11pm DF
3am night feed (for now but hopefully drop it soon)

Actually, now that I think of it that's how his nights pretty much are anyway.     Ack!  What is my deal here?    Guess I just need to work towards getting rid of that 3am feed.

[~*Nicole*~]

I think I'd be inclined to work towards the 3.5 hourly routine during both the day and for a bit and then try spacing even further apart for night. Maybe you can sloooooowly work toward 4 hourly at night. But it'll take a few restless nights. If he gets a bit less at night and they're more spaced out he may take more during the day.

Ava took two night feeds until 4 months when I actively weaned them. At that point I had to wean or she would have kept on waking to eat, but she really didn't need the calories. She only took about 3 to 4 nights to switch her calories to the day and stop waking at night. But F is a bit more particular about what he wants so I don't know that he'd take to dropping night feeds so easily LOL.

[~inbalance~]

He does go 4hrs at night often, usually once a night as I feed him around 7 and then again between 11-12.   and again often will go from 2/3am to almost 7.  So I don't think stretching him to 4hrs will be a problem.  I was going to start when he's 4mos though, so in two weeks.

[Mama2boys]

same boat as well ladies!

We have started working towards a 3.5 and that is helping some day feeds but not all the first feed of the day evne after a 3.5hr gap is usually rubbish!

BUt not sure we will move to a 4 as I read somewher eon tshi site thatBF babies can often not do 4 easily...we do the split feed for the last feed before sleep and that works fine, then give a DF and then he still wakes up 2 times between 1-2 (used to be 2-3) and then between 4-5 and then back to sleep again.

[~inbalance~]

I agree that it can be hard for BF babies to do 4hrs, particularly before starting solids.  With T we went to 4hrs at 5mos, no problem.  He actually did much better that way.  My goal is similar with F - I'm starting to think about it now so that at 4mos we can start making the transition to a 4hr EASY, but don't expect him to go fully 4hrs between feeds right away, kwim?  F is such a different feeder than T though, he is so distractable and like I said just seems to not want to be there.  So he eats until he doesn't feel hungry then flat out refuses more.     Well, at least for now he's still gaining!

[~*Nicole*~]

I can't remember when we went to 4 hours. I only remember dropping the night feeds b/c the doc. told me at her 4 month appt. to stop! He thought I was nuts to still be nursing her through the night. (I hadn't found the BW site yet either) so I just followed his recommendation. Clearly if she hadn't done well with it I wouldn't have forced it, but she soothed back to sleep with a shhh/pat and her paci each time. She never nursed long. 10 minutes, one side...she just got what she needed. So gained weight really well.

[*Liz*]

What about trying to limit the last night feed and see if that impacts at all?

I did this with J at one point - just said 'if you can only be arsed to feed for 10 mins during the day then that is all you are having at night', so I would stop him after 10 mins and then try and resettle him. He was being a complete pain though - feeding for 5 mins during the day and 30 plus mins at night. He did have uncontrolled reflux issues though  - that is how he reverse cycled his feeds.

He did do better on 3-4hrly feedings though.

Distractable feeders are tough though. Jacob was. Not sure how Megan will go yet - but she is faster than J ever was. Is he using his hands yet? Would having some beads or something on give him something to fiddle with and perhaps keep him on a bit longer when T is crashing around?

[~inbalance~]

I don't know how I can limit him when he already feeds for so little.  A 5min daytime feeding is maybe a 10min night one.   

[*Liz*]

I guess I mean try and stop the night feed at 5 mins as well? Not sure if that would work though - some LOs won't have it - or they wake more  .

[~inbalance~]

Maybe, it's worth a shot.  It's hard when you're dealing with only a difference of a few mins, kwim?  He's usually pretty sleepy at night, it might work.

[Mama2boys]

distracted feeder at our end too, wants to look so all beads and touchy feely stuff has been useless.

We tried limiting but it only makes him real mad, especially in the night.

[EloysH]

I have been taking Kai into a dark room to feed during the day , i think it helps.