Author Topic: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?  (Read 11412 times)

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Offline Gypsymom

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I'm on a strict elimination diet. Like many of you know, it really sucks!

The good news: DS2 is drastically better in terms of wind, reflux, sleep, eczema, and screaming.  :D Really, he is a different baby. Foregoing dairy and soy made the largest difference, but it wasn't enough.

The bad news: Poops are still mucousy. Mostly dark yellow. Sometimes bright yellow and occasionally green. Today, with no warning at all (and for no apparent reason that i know of) I saw some flecks of blood again.  :'(

I haven't seen mustardy with seeds in it since he was 2 weeks old. All the poops are pretty liquidy although usually not watery and the slime seems to remain. The only thing I can think of is that maybe something I am eating all the time (rice!!) is only marginally tolerated? I keep waiting for the poops to be all better before adding back some foods (oh, please!) but it just ain't happening. What would you do? Should I go ahead and just accept this as our baseline and start trying stuff? When he gets a reaction, his cheeks flare up in eczema right away and he usually gets windy with lots of diarrhea (which disturbs his sleep) so it's not like I wouldn't notice a difference. But, I could theoretically cut it down even less or try some other foods (I've been thinking about quinoa instead of rice).

Here's what I eat:

rice (grains, noodles, crackers), Rice Dream, skinless chicken, peeled cooked zucchini, cooked carrots, babyfood peaches, babyfood pears. Extras are decaf black tea, salt, pepper (very little), and a small amount of sugar and I add sunflower oil to most meals. I take calcium, DF Acidopholus, and a digestive enzyme. Scared of vitamins but pretty sure I am anemic.

As I say, except for the consistency of the poops, he seems really healthy and happy. But I know that I cannot go on just eating the above. My dietician says not to expect perfection. I have no idea what to trial. I suppose I need more protein than anything else so maybe beef or eggs?

Feeling so discouraged...


Offline mkaes

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How long have you been on your ED. With DD2, it took weeks to have her poops return to their regular consistency after I started my ED. HTH

Offline sherry lynn

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Reading with interest. Still have mucusy poos here. Although, they have gotten a lot better since I started him on solids.
DS#1: 30 Oct 2007
DS#2 19 Feb 2010

Offline ~ Vik ~

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Dropping you off so many huge (((hugs))) :-* :-*

TBH, if there's still blood in his poops I don't think that I would accept that as a baseline. Mucous, maybe (especially when his other symptoms are so obvious), but not blood :-\  It may be like you suggested, that something you eat frequently is only marginally tolerated. Rice allergies are rare but do happen - I think Tari's dd2 was sensitive to it. It may be worth making the change to see if it helps.

More (((hugs))) for you both :-* :-*
D ~ dairy, egg, peanut/nut and mustard allergies
Proud to have breastfed for over 24 months!


scarlettsmom

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Oh Big Big (((hugs))).  So incredibly frustrating.  You are doing SUCH a great job trying to figure this out!!

Honestly, I hate to say it, but I agree w/Vikki - anything else but blood in the stools I might be apt to agree to moving forward, but something is still bothering your sweet LO w/the blood showing up.   :'(

As Vikki mentioned my DD2, Gwyneth, actually had a rice allergy/intolerance.  I could not believe it!  but it was true, she did out grow it, but not until around 18 months.  It was such a shock.  I think quinoa is a fantastic choice - covers so many bases (grain, protein).  

Geez - that's a very limited diet - how tough!!  As pp asked - how long have you been on it?  ...and how old is LO?  The GREAT news is hearing that he is so much happier, and feeling so much better.  You have obviously gotten rid of his major allergens/intolerances.  

I'm wondering about any other ingredients in the foods you are eating?  The supplements - typcially lots of hidden soy in those (you probably know this, but just brainstorming).  same with the chicken - is it organic?  Most of non-organic chickens have a soy or milk preservative in them.  

This is also going to sound crazy - but my DD2 also had a corn allergy (and actually still does we just found out with her reaction to popped corn).  Regular salt she couldn't tolerate.  Insane right??!  I thought so too (keep in mind, she was SO SO senstive to the slightest offender through my breastmilk - seriously she must have been 1 in a million easily).  Anyway - after researching a bit I found that regular salt had a corn byproduct in it.  I switched to sea salt and the symptoms went away!  Just food for thought.

You for SURE need to add more foods.  Being an anemic my whole life I know how awful the side effects can be.  So beef was in my diet (and luckily DD2 tolerated it!).  I ate TONS of it.  I really think you should go the beef route first.  Eggs are in the top 8 allergens, beef not so much.  There are small links to dairy = beef allergy/intolerance, but the data is shaky.  Beef would open up so many more options for you.  I used to carry around little beef patties that my DH would grill for me, lol.  Crazy, but they were great snacks!  Just try to get organic..

What about avocados for fat and calories?  Oatmeal ?(the steel cut, Irish oats).  

Hang in there.  Hoping you get to a baseline SOON!  

 :-* :-*


Offline skatty

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Leorah had the odd mucousy/ blood nappy for at least a month after I went on the ED even though her wind, restlessness, irritability and sleep problems improved. It can take a good while for the system to heal, how long have you beem on the ED, your diet sounds very similar to what I ate.

I agree with Scarlett's mum, check out the extra ingredients in your vits, that sneaky soy gets everywhere  :P
Katt






Offline lizzyr

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Hey there. Firstly I'm sending all my support, I know how heartbreaking and all consuming this can be. As ScarlettsMom said, hang in there!

I just wanted to say that I would not introduce beef as a protein. My little boy reacted to beef, and on further investigation I found that between 13-20% of children with milk allergy react to beef. Infact milk protein allergy is also called 'bovine protein allergy'. (See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12487203?dopt=Abstract for a review of papers in this)
The safest meat to add is lamb. It is the least likely meat to cause a reaction (safer infact than chicken).


Also, I personally would stay away from cereals such as oats/barley/rye as it has been found that many children who have continuing symptoms after a strict dairy elimination diet are reacting to cereals (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12911779 ). Yes try quinoa or how about adding millet (sounds horrible, but I eat millet porridge made with millet flakes for breakfast - I use dark brown molasses sugar on it, as molasses is an excellent source of iron - it's realy quite nice - honest!)?

I can see you take a probiotic, but have you tried giving a probiotic directly to your LO? I use one by Solgar (uk based company who are very good) called ABCdophillus. It is hypoallergenic and conatins no dairy/soy/wheat/yeast etc etc... When Finn was younger I used to just sprinkle 1/2 teaspoon of the powder on my nipple as he was feeding (or if you are bottle feeding you could add to the milk or dip the nipple in the powder). Now he is bigger I add it to some pureed pear each morning. I do think it makes a difference.

Don't give up hope, I know how dark things can seem, but you will get there.

Offline EloysH

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Shannon,  huge hugs,  you are on way less foods than I am and I am feeling incredibly restricted. I just can't beleive you have lasted so well on so few foods. Surely this is a form of torture :P

It may be that this is your baseline, it may be that it will take up to 8 weeks for the mucus & blood to go (from past damaging foods).  If you have other symptoms to go by, then I think you could forge on with introducing foods. If poo was your main symptom and you had nothing else to gauge his tolerance,  then I would say hold fort for a while. But lets face it, for sanities sake I think YOU need to introduce something new.  As you said he is greatly improved, I think you are right that the uptopian poo may not be achieved!   :P :P  If it all turns into a mess, you can always pull back to those same foods.


You probably don't want to hear this but you asked, what would you do if I were you?

I would switch to the RPAH low chemical diet, as this diet not  only cuts out allergins but also foods that anyone can be intolerant to such as natural food chemicals.  It is amazing how common intolerance to natural chemicals such as salicylates and amines actually are.     The RPAH diet  has a wider range of foods  that you can eat too, yay!   It has socookboooks, yummy recipes and menu plans food charts and shopping lists.     

Just to explain more fully:     Looking at your foods, there is alot of salicylates being pumped into it.  If he has a salicylate sensitivity,  he would definantly react to your diet espeicially since you are eating so few foods in large quantities.  The dietician said to me even tiny amounts of pepper will build up to something not tolerated in the salicylate sensitive individual, this is not even taking into account the tea and baby peaches. Her next advice to me was to pull back on some of the moderate salicylates that I was eating.  Now your diet has way more sals in it than mine, I may eat one or two serves of foods with moderate sals in them per day, the rest low.  I only eat two serves of fruit a day, as the sals will build up.

Peeled Zucchini and carrots are moderate salicylate foods.
Black tea is VERY high in sals  (just to give an idea very high is about 10 times more than high, and high, is 10 times more than moderate)
pepper is very high
Peach (peeled) is high

I remember you said he reacted strawerries. They are just as high in sals as peaches are. If you cut strawberies, I think you need to switch to all low sals.     what else could it be about the strawberry that gives a reaction?    I am assuming its the sals.    A salicylate sensitivity will build up over time, you can eat any foods that have salicylates in them, over time once the threshold of tolerance has been reached, he will react on the next thing you eat with sals in them. Some LO's can toelrate 1/2 cup a day, some 1/4 cup and so on.

Just to look at some of the safest foods as per the RPAH elimination diet.  Lamb is on the safest foods list. So is white peeled potato, I know potato allergy is not unheard of, but i think it would give you great versatility - baked potato, boiled potatoes, mashed potatos, potato & meat patties with mashed potato and meat.  If you want to introduce any flavourings, leeks and shallots are safe, they are on my safe low chemical low allergy foods list.  You could finely chop leeks make potato patties with them, yum! Chick peas, butter beans, cannelli beans are all safe. Celery is low in everything, so are brussel sprouts. As for grains I would go for Quinoa, it is safe.  It tastes yum and is high in protein.

Finally the extra booklet  I orderd has arrived (that tells you how to do the diet, charts, menu plans, recipes etc).  If you are thinking of switching diets to the RPAH diet, I will send it to you. Let me know, otherwise I will ship it off to Sherry.  :)

Here is a link to more about salicylates: http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/factsheets/Factsalicylates2.htm



Lots of hugs I think you are an amazing individual...

E x

Offline sherry lynn

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Eloys - I would love the booklet :)  you don't need it, or it's an extra?
I'm also wondering how much do you think it costs to ship overseas? They charge quite a bit on the website, but if I remember correctly I did pay a good bit when I ordered my sleep sacks from Aus.
DS#1: 30 Oct 2007
DS#2 19 Feb 2010

Offline lizzyr

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Great advice from Eloysh!  I follow the same low food chemical diet. I bought a book from Amazon called 'Freindly Food' which accompanys the diet and has safe food lists, shopping lists etc. It is fab! It was so much easier to follow as I finally had a range of recipes for snacks, sweet things as well as main meals, that I felt far less deprived (I had craved cake for a long time - finally I could make things like pear muffins and golden syrup cake - wahooo!) Since introducing solids to my LO I found he reacted to some of the things I had been eating when my diet was even more restricted (eg Avocado), so gave me a clue food chemicals were possibly playing their part.
Good luck - let us know how things are going.

Offline Gypsymom

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2010, 17:33:46 pm »
Wow. Just when you think you're at the end of your rope, another BWer ties you a knot to hang on. Thank you *all* so much for coming to my rescue with ideas and encouragement. IRL, I always get the 'give up on BFing' comment and even my DH who is very supportive thinks it might be better to "toughen him up" on more foods even if he isn't responding well.

It's always a good idea to get back to the basics so I went back over yesterday's intake carefully to see what had changed. Luckily, this is the first time I've seen blood flecks in a long while so I knew something was up. I was planning to write a similar post when it was 'just' the mucuous issue, but that bad diaper really pushed me into sadder territory. Anyways... two things came up:
          1. I ran out of rice hot cereal so I ate a bowl of gluten-free crispy rice (dry cereal) and the label does say produced in a facility that contains peanuts, tree nuts, and soy.
          2. I resumed taking the supplements after quite a long break as the ones I took with me while on my recent travel got wet so I wasn't on them. The acidophilus says "Non-Dairy" in bold print on the label, but it's a different brand than the last one I had. Guess what? The fine print (which is truly so fine that even though I have 20/20 vision, I can barely read it!!) says "May contain traces of dairy and soy"

So I am hoping that one of those two were the reason blood flecks suddenly appeared.

Now to answer some of your specific queries...

How long have you been on your ED.

I have been on this version of the ED since July 30 (so 3 weeks). Previous to that I was on the Dr. Sears ED (eating only from his list of low allergenic foods only, but some of those were obviously not working as results were mixed). I think that was about a month. Previous to that I was avoiding only the most allergenic foods (2 weeks) and previous to that I was doing MSPI only although took the dairy out before the soy (2 weeks). Our starting point was ending up in urgent care after I had consumed a large portion of seasonal strawberries - DS was just 3.5weeks old at the time.

...and how old is LO?  The GREAT news is hearing that he is so much happier, and feeling so much better.  You have obviously gotten rid of his major allergens/intolerances. 
Sterling is 14 weeks old now (born May 14/10). I AM very thankful for all the progress we have made!
You've made some interesting suggestions, Tari. Not all the chicken has been organic, certainly. I think Canada has stricter rules about additives than the U.S. but, wow. The salt thing is worth a try as I have a hunch that corn is a biggie for us. Recently we had a little flare from either a peppermint or a Tylenol. The latter contains cornstarch.

Yes try quinoa or how about adding millet (sounds horrible, but I eat millet porridge made with millet flakes for breakfast - I use dark brown molasses sugar on it, as molasses is an excellent source of iron - it's realy quite nice - honest!)?
Good tip, Lizzy. I can try that. I am currently eating rice flakes with brown sugar so adding or swapping to that would be pretty easy. I have been meaning to try giving him the probiotic directly. I bought one for babies but then found it contained dairy (but I hadn't opened it so I just returned it). I will go buy some more for myself and try having him lick it off.

Now your diet has way more sals in it than mine, I may eat one or two serves of foods with moderate sals in them per day, the rest low.  I only eat two serves of fruit a day, as the sals will build up.

Peeled Zucchini and carrots are moderate salicylate foods.
Black tea is VERY high in sals  (just to give an idea very high is about 10 times more than high, and high, is 10 times more than moderate)
pepper is very high
Peach (peeled) is high
I appreciate your candor, Elo. You've been a faithful comrade for a long while already! I was already thinking in bed last night that suspecting rice over some of my other things is a bit daft. I went through my book last night and discovered that for diagnostic ED, Joneja does not allow carrots, tea, pepper, sunflower oil (she prefers safflower for testing), or Rice Dream (although she recommends it for most people in a maintenance phase) so I thought I'd take those out for the weekend and see. I know lamb is the lowest meat but I really don't like it much so I'll keep chicken a little longer first. I did order the Friendly Food book and would like to go the RPAH route as it does seem well tested (and frankly, having you and others on it too makes it more appealing). Is the booklet the same as the handbook? I am happy to send you the money for both the guide and the shipping. Or I can wait and give Sherry first crack. Perhaps I could do a direct order?

You could be onto something with the sals issue. Yesterday I had carrots three times as I was out of zucchini and this morning there is a wee bit of eczema. I'm dumping them for now! I'll ditch the tea, and pepper and peaches too for a few days and see how we go. After that, I'll try some of your other suggestions (potato would be fab!). I don't see a food list on the fedup link - is that how I would check which squashes are low?

Thanks again so much for the support, ladies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Offline EloysH

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2010, 20:40:34 pm »
Hey Shannon. I'll ship you the booklet - the booklet is the handbook as decribed on the RPAH website.  I'll arrange another one for Sherry!  Keep trucking on!  xxx

Offline ~ Vik ~

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2010, 01:37:23 am »
The acidophilus says "Non-Dairy" in bold print on the label, but it's a different brand than the last one I had. Guess what? The fine print (which is truly so fine that even though I have 20/20 vision, I can barely read it!!) says "May contain traces of dairy and soy"
That is just WILD :o  Dairy free, but just-so-ya-know it might contain some dairy ::)  Unbelievable.

I'm so happy that you went back through and found those two things out though.  It makes sense that those traces in your cereal and supplement would cause the blood, and that means it's an easy fix!  (Good Lord, you certainly deserve something to be easy once in a while! ;))  I would give it a couple of days to make sure that the blood is gone, but then IMHO you could start slowly introducing foods into your diet.  And I definitely agree with pp that if you're anemic the best place to start would be a food rich in iron - you'll probably start feeling like a new woman!

And (((hugs))) for the 'just stop bfing' comments.  I got those too, and I was just eliminating dairy ::)  It's so frustrating, when all you really want is support!

I hope things start to go smoothly for you :-*
D ~ dairy, egg, peanut/nut and mustard allergies
Proud to have breastfed for over 24 months!


Offline Gypsymom

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2010, 12:06:39 pm »
No more blood yet so probably was the cereal/supplements, but he's been having some mega poos (all mucousy). Maybe he is detoxing since I dropped tea, peaches, carrots, and pepper? His cheeks are nice and soft though, almost no roughness/eczema there. But I am so hungry! :( And he is too apparently, I'm feeding the second side at 4am right now which is pretty unusual (most night feeds have been only one side for awhile now). Do I give it one more day and then start eating from the low sal list in Friendly Food? Was surprised to learn there that peppermint is really bad. Do you guys use regular toothpaste to clean your teeth?

I'm so nervous too eat anything new. I'm worried it will be starting all over, but I think I've got to. My energy is pretty bad. It's usually only dairy or soy that takes weeks to clear, right? I almost ate a sweet potato last night as we had company and somehow I'd forgotten to make myself rice (usually have it in the fridge at all times), but I didn't. Did make some rice porridge after they'd gone though. At least the friends were marveling at how 'a different baby' he seemed than when we last got together with them about a month or so ago :)


Offline EloysH

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2010, 12:49:32 pm »
Mostly 72 hrs for poos to clear, one reaction last 5 days though