Author Topic: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?  (Read 11432 times)

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Offline Gypsymom

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I'm on a strict elimination diet. Like many of you know, it really sucks!

The good news: DS2 is drastically better in terms of wind, reflux, sleep, eczema, and screaming.  :D Really, he is a different baby. Foregoing dairy and soy made the largest difference, but it wasn't enough.

The bad news: Poops are still mucousy. Mostly dark yellow. Sometimes bright yellow and occasionally green. Today, with no warning at all (and for no apparent reason that i know of) I saw some flecks of blood again.  :'(

I haven't seen mustardy with seeds in it since he was 2 weeks old. All the poops are pretty liquidy although usually not watery and the slime seems to remain. The only thing I can think of is that maybe something I am eating all the time (rice!!) is only marginally tolerated? I keep waiting for the poops to be all better before adding back some foods (oh, please!) but it just ain't happening. What would you do? Should I go ahead and just accept this as our baseline and start trying stuff? When he gets a reaction, his cheeks flare up in eczema right away and he usually gets windy with lots of diarrhea (which disturbs his sleep) so it's not like I wouldn't notice a difference. But, I could theoretically cut it down even less or try some other foods (I've been thinking about quinoa instead of rice).

Here's what I eat:

rice (grains, noodles, crackers), Rice Dream, skinless chicken, peeled cooked zucchini, cooked carrots, babyfood peaches, babyfood pears. Extras are decaf black tea, salt, pepper (very little), and a small amount of sugar and I add sunflower oil to most meals. I take calcium, DF Acidopholus, and a digestive enzyme. Scared of vitamins but pretty sure I am anemic.

As I say, except for the consistency of the poops, he seems really healthy and happy. But I know that I cannot go on just eating the above. My dietician says not to expect perfection. I have no idea what to trial. I suppose I need more protein than anything else so maybe beef or eggs?

Feeling so discouraged...


Offline mkaes

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How long have you been on your ED. With DD2, it took weeks to have her poops return to their regular consistency after I started my ED. HTH

Offline sherry lynn

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Reading with interest. Still have mucusy poos here. Although, they have gotten a lot better since I started him on solids.
DS#1: 30 Oct 2007
DS#2 19 Feb 2010

Offline ~ Vik ~

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Dropping you off so many huge (((hugs))) :-* :-*

TBH, if there's still blood in his poops I don't think that I would accept that as a baseline. Mucous, maybe (especially when his other symptoms are so obvious), but not blood :-\  It may be like you suggested, that something you eat frequently is only marginally tolerated. Rice allergies are rare but do happen - I think Tari's dd2 was sensitive to it. It may be worth making the change to see if it helps.

More (((hugs))) for you both :-* :-*
D ~ dairy, egg, peanut/nut and mustard allergies
Proud to have breastfed for over 24 months!


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Oh Big Big (((hugs))).  So incredibly frustrating.  You are doing SUCH a great job trying to figure this out!!

Honestly, I hate to say it, but I agree w/Vikki - anything else but blood in the stools I might be apt to agree to moving forward, but something is still bothering your sweet LO w/the blood showing up.   :'(

As Vikki mentioned my DD2, Gwyneth, actually had a rice allergy/intolerance.  I could not believe it!  but it was true, she did out grow it, but not until around 18 months.  It was such a shock.  I think quinoa is a fantastic choice - covers so many bases (grain, protein).  

Geez - that's a very limited diet - how tough!!  As pp asked - how long have you been on it?  ...and how old is LO?  The GREAT news is hearing that he is so much happier, and feeling so much better.  You have obviously gotten rid of his major allergens/intolerances.  

I'm wondering about any other ingredients in the foods you are eating?  The supplements - typcially lots of hidden soy in those (you probably know this, but just brainstorming).  same with the chicken - is it organic?  Most of non-organic chickens have a soy or milk preservative in them.  

This is also going to sound crazy - but my DD2 also had a corn allergy (and actually still does we just found out with her reaction to popped corn).  Regular salt she couldn't tolerate.  Insane right??!  I thought so too (keep in mind, she was SO SO senstive to the slightest offender through my breastmilk - seriously she must have been 1 in a million easily).  Anyway - after researching a bit I found that regular salt had a corn byproduct in it.  I switched to sea salt and the symptoms went away!  Just food for thought.

You for SURE need to add more foods.  Being an anemic my whole life I know how awful the side effects can be.  So beef was in my diet (and luckily DD2 tolerated it!).  I ate TONS of it.  I really think you should go the beef route first.  Eggs are in the top 8 allergens, beef not so much.  There are small links to dairy = beef allergy/intolerance, but the data is shaky.  Beef would open up so many more options for you.  I used to carry around little beef patties that my DH would grill for me, lol.  Crazy, but they were great snacks!  Just try to get organic..

What about avocados for fat and calories?  Oatmeal ?(the steel cut, Irish oats).  

Hang in there.  Hoping you get to a baseline SOON!  

 :-* :-*


Offline skatty

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Leorah had the odd mucousy/ blood nappy for at least a month after I went on the ED even though her wind, restlessness, irritability and sleep problems improved. It can take a good while for the system to heal, how long have you beem on the ED, your diet sounds very similar to what I ate.

I agree with Scarlett's mum, check out the extra ingredients in your vits, that sneaky soy gets everywhere  :P
Katt






Offline lizzyr

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Hey there. Firstly I'm sending all my support, I know how heartbreaking and all consuming this can be. As ScarlettsMom said, hang in there!

I just wanted to say that I would not introduce beef as a protein. My little boy reacted to beef, and on further investigation I found that between 13-20% of children with milk allergy react to beef. Infact milk protein allergy is also called 'bovine protein allergy'. (See http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12487203?dopt=Abstract for a review of papers in this)
The safest meat to add is lamb. It is the least likely meat to cause a reaction (safer infact than chicken).


Also, I personally would stay away from cereals such as oats/barley/rye as it has been found that many children who have continuing symptoms after a strict dairy elimination diet are reacting to cereals (see http://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/12911779 ). Yes try quinoa or how about adding millet (sounds horrible, but I eat millet porridge made with millet flakes for breakfast - I use dark brown molasses sugar on it, as molasses is an excellent source of iron - it's realy quite nice - honest!)?

I can see you take a probiotic, but have you tried giving a probiotic directly to your LO? I use one by Solgar (uk based company who are very good) called ABCdophillus. It is hypoallergenic and conatins no dairy/soy/wheat/yeast etc etc... When Finn was younger I used to just sprinkle 1/2 teaspoon of the powder on my nipple as he was feeding (or if you are bottle feeding you could add to the milk or dip the nipple in the powder). Now he is bigger I add it to some pureed pear each morning. I do think it makes a difference.

Don't give up hope, I know how dark things can seem, but you will get there.

Offline EloysH

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Shannon,  huge hugs,  you are on way less foods than I am and I am feeling incredibly restricted. I just can't beleive you have lasted so well on so few foods. Surely this is a form of torture :P

It may be that this is your baseline, it may be that it will take up to 8 weeks for the mucus & blood to go (from past damaging foods).  If you have other symptoms to go by, then I think you could forge on with introducing foods. If poo was your main symptom and you had nothing else to gauge his tolerance,  then I would say hold fort for a while. But lets face it, for sanities sake I think YOU need to introduce something new.  As you said he is greatly improved, I think you are right that the uptopian poo may not be achieved!   :P :P  If it all turns into a mess, you can always pull back to those same foods.


You probably don't want to hear this but you asked, what would you do if I were you?

I would switch to the RPAH low chemical diet, as this diet not  only cuts out allergins but also foods that anyone can be intolerant to such as natural food chemicals.  It is amazing how common intolerance to natural chemicals such as salicylates and amines actually are.     The RPAH diet  has a wider range of foods  that you can eat too, yay!   It has socookboooks, yummy recipes and menu plans food charts and shopping lists.     

Just to explain more fully:     Looking at your foods, there is alot of salicylates being pumped into it.  If he has a salicylate sensitivity,  he would definantly react to your diet espeicially since you are eating so few foods in large quantities.  The dietician said to me even tiny amounts of pepper will build up to something not tolerated in the salicylate sensitive individual, this is not even taking into account the tea and baby peaches. Her next advice to me was to pull back on some of the moderate salicylates that I was eating.  Now your diet has way more sals in it than mine, I may eat one or two serves of foods with moderate sals in them per day, the rest low.  I only eat two serves of fruit a day, as the sals will build up.

Peeled Zucchini and carrots are moderate salicylate foods.
Black tea is VERY high in sals  (just to give an idea very high is about 10 times more than high, and high, is 10 times more than moderate)
pepper is very high
Peach (peeled) is high

I remember you said he reacted strawerries. They are just as high in sals as peaches are. If you cut strawberies, I think you need to switch to all low sals.     what else could it be about the strawberry that gives a reaction?    I am assuming its the sals.    A salicylate sensitivity will build up over time, you can eat any foods that have salicylates in them, over time once the threshold of tolerance has been reached, he will react on the next thing you eat with sals in them. Some LO's can toelrate 1/2 cup a day, some 1/4 cup and so on.

Just to look at some of the safest foods as per the RPAH elimination diet.  Lamb is on the safest foods list. So is white peeled potato, I know potato allergy is not unheard of, but i think it would give you great versatility - baked potato, boiled potatoes, mashed potatos, potato & meat patties with mashed potato and meat.  If you want to introduce any flavourings, leeks and shallots are safe, they are on my safe low chemical low allergy foods list.  You could finely chop leeks make potato patties with them, yum! Chick peas, butter beans, cannelli beans are all safe. Celery is low in everything, so are brussel sprouts. As for grains I would go for Quinoa, it is safe.  It tastes yum and is high in protein.

Finally the extra booklet  I orderd has arrived (that tells you how to do the diet, charts, menu plans, recipes etc).  If you are thinking of switching diets to the RPAH diet, I will send it to you. Let me know, otherwise I will ship it off to Sherry.  :)

Here is a link to more about salicylates: http://www.fedupwithfoodadditives.info/factsheets/Factsalicylates2.htm



Lots of hugs I think you are an amazing individual...

E x

Offline sherry lynn

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Eloys - I would love the booklet :)  you don't need it, or it's an extra?
I'm also wondering how much do you think it costs to ship overseas? They charge quite a bit on the website, but if I remember correctly I did pay a good bit when I ordered my sleep sacks from Aus.
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Offline lizzyr

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Great advice from Eloysh!  I follow the same low food chemical diet. I bought a book from Amazon called 'Freindly Food' which accompanys the diet and has safe food lists, shopping lists etc. It is fab! It was so much easier to follow as I finally had a range of recipes for snacks, sweet things as well as main meals, that I felt far less deprived (I had craved cake for a long time - finally I could make things like pear muffins and golden syrup cake - wahooo!) Since introducing solids to my LO I found he reacted to some of the things I had been eating when my diet was even more restricted (eg Avocado), so gave me a clue food chemicals were possibly playing their part.
Good luck - let us know how things are going.

Offline Gypsymom

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #10 on: August 21, 2010, 17:33:46 pm »
Wow. Just when you think you're at the end of your rope, another BWer ties you a knot to hang on. Thank you *all* so much for coming to my rescue with ideas and encouragement. IRL, I always get the 'give up on BFing' comment and even my DH who is very supportive thinks it might be better to "toughen him up" on more foods even if he isn't responding well.

It's always a good idea to get back to the basics so I went back over yesterday's intake carefully to see what had changed. Luckily, this is the first time I've seen blood flecks in a long while so I knew something was up. I was planning to write a similar post when it was 'just' the mucuous issue, but that bad diaper really pushed me into sadder territory. Anyways... two things came up:
          1. I ran out of rice hot cereal so I ate a bowl of gluten-free crispy rice (dry cereal) and the label does say produced in a facility that contains peanuts, tree nuts, and soy.
          2. I resumed taking the supplements after quite a long break as the ones I took with me while on my recent travel got wet so I wasn't on them. The acidophilus says "Non-Dairy" in bold print on the label, but it's a different brand than the last one I had. Guess what? The fine print (which is truly so fine that even though I have 20/20 vision, I can barely read it!!) says "May contain traces of dairy and soy"

So I am hoping that one of those two were the reason blood flecks suddenly appeared.

Now to answer some of your specific queries...

How long have you been on your ED.

I have been on this version of the ED since July 30 (so 3 weeks). Previous to that I was on the Dr. Sears ED (eating only from his list of low allergenic foods only, but some of those were obviously not working as results were mixed). I think that was about a month. Previous to that I was avoiding only the most allergenic foods (2 weeks) and previous to that I was doing MSPI only although took the dairy out before the soy (2 weeks). Our starting point was ending up in urgent care after I had consumed a large portion of seasonal strawberries - DS was just 3.5weeks old at the time.

...and how old is LO?  The GREAT news is hearing that he is so much happier, and feeling so much better.  You have obviously gotten rid of his major allergens/intolerances. 
Sterling is 14 weeks old now (born May 14/10). I AM very thankful for all the progress we have made!
You've made some interesting suggestions, Tari. Not all the chicken has been organic, certainly. I think Canada has stricter rules about additives than the U.S. but, wow. The salt thing is worth a try as I have a hunch that corn is a biggie for us. Recently we had a little flare from either a peppermint or a Tylenol. The latter contains cornstarch.

Yes try quinoa or how about adding millet (sounds horrible, but I eat millet porridge made with millet flakes for breakfast - I use dark brown molasses sugar on it, as molasses is an excellent source of iron - it's realy quite nice - honest!)?
Good tip, Lizzy. I can try that. I am currently eating rice flakes with brown sugar so adding or swapping to that would be pretty easy. I have been meaning to try giving him the probiotic directly. I bought one for babies but then found it contained dairy (but I hadn't opened it so I just returned it). I will go buy some more for myself and try having him lick it off.

Now your diet has way more sals in it than mine, I may eat one or two serves of foods with moderate sals in them per day, the rest low.  I only eat two serves of fruit a day, as the sals will build up.

Peeled Zucchini and carrots are moderate salicylate foods.
Black tea is VERY high in sals  (just to give an idea very high is about 10 times more than high, and high, is 10 times more than moderate)
pepper is very high
Peach (peeled) is high
I appreciate your candor, Elo. You've been a faithful comrade for a long while already! I was already thinking in bed last night that suspecting rice over some of my other things is a bit daft. I went through my book last night and discovered that for diagnostic ED, Joneja does not allow carrots, tea, pepper, sunflower oil (she prefers safflower for testing), or Rice Dream (although she recommends it for most people in a maintenance phase) so I thought I'd take those out for the weekend and see. I know lamb is the lowest meat but I really don't like it much so I'll keep chicken a little longer first. I did order the Friendly Food book and would like to go the RPAH route as it does seem well tested (and frankly, having you and others on it too makes it more appealing). Is the booklet the same as the handbook? I am happy to send you the money for both the guide and the shipping. Or I can wait and give Sherry first crack. Perhaps I could do a direct order?

You could be onto something with the sals issue. Yesterday I had carrots three times as I was out of zucchini and this morning there is a wee bit of eczema. I'm dumping them for now! I'll ditch the tea, and pepper and peaches too for a few days and see how we go. After that, I'll try some of your other suggestions (potato would be fab!). I don't see a food list on the fedup link - is that how I would check which squashes are low?

Thanks again so much for the support, ladies!!!!!!!!!!!!!!


Offline EloysH

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #11 on: August 21, 2010, 20:40:34 pm »
Hey Shannon. I'll ship you the booklet - the booklet is the handbook as decribed on the RPAH website.  I'll arrange another one for Sherry!  Keep trucking on!  xxx

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #12 on: August 22, 2010, 01:37:23 am »
The acidophilus says "Non-Dairy" in bold print on the label, but it's a different brand than the last one I had. Guess what? The fine print (which is truly so fine that even though I have 20/20 vision, I can barely read it!!) says "May contain traces of dairy and soy"
That is just WILD :o  Dairy free, but just-so-ya-know it might contain some dairy ::)  Unbelievable.

I'm so happy that you went back through and found those two things out though.  It makes sense that those traces in your cereal and supplement would cause the blood, and that means it's an easy fix!  (Good Lord, you certainly deserve something to be easy once in a while! ;))  I would give it a couple of days to make sure that the blood is gone, but then IMHO you could start slowly introducing foods into your diet.  And I definitely agree with pp that if you're anemic the best place to start would be a food rich in iron - you'll probably start feeling like a new woman!

And (((hugs))) for the 'just stop bfing' comments.  I got those too, and I was just eliminating dairy ::)  It's so frustrating, when all you really want is support!

I hope things start to go smoothly for you :-*
D ~ dairy, egg, peanut/nut and mustard allergies
Proud to have breastfed for over 24 months!


Offline Gypsymom

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #13 on: August 23, 2010, 12:06:39 pm »
No more blood yet so probably was the cereal/supplements, but he's been having some mega poos (all mucousy). Maybe he is detoxing since I dropped tea, peaches, carrots, and pepper? His cheeks are nice and soft though, almost no roughness/eczema there. But I am so hungry! :( And he is too apparently, I'm feeding the second side at 4am right now which is pretty unusual (most night feeds have been only one side for awhile now). Do I give it one more day and then start eating from the low sal list in Friendly Food? Was surprised to learn there that peppermint is really bad. Do you guys use regular toothpaste to clean your teeth?

I'm so nervous too eat anything new. I'm worried it will be starting all over, but I think I've got to. My energy is pretty bad. It's usually only dairy or soy that takes weeks to clear, right? I almost ate a sweet potato last night as we had company and somehow I'd forgotten to make myself rice (usually have it in the fridge at all times), but I didn't. Did make some rice porridge after they'd gone though. At least the friends were marveling at how 'a different baby' he seemed than when we last got together with them about a month or so ago :)


Offline EloysH

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #14 on: August 23, 2010, 12:49:32 pm »
Mostly 72 hrs for poos to clear, one reaction last 5 days though

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #15 on: August 23, 2010, 14:35:09 pm »
Hmmm... Shannon. I hadn't thought about this, but Emory's cheeks are not smooth :(  We went through phases of this with Lyle as well.

*hugs* I hope things look up for you soon. You sure are working hard.
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Offline Gypsymom

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #16 on: August 23, 2010, 16:50:03 pm »
Cheers, Sherry. S gets rough cheeks and/or full on bumpy eczema from two sources. Food I eat or direct skin contact with problem fabrics (I was everything in hypoallergenic stuff for the whole family). The latter goes away much quicker.

Perhaps our little ones will be extra-ordinary in some fantastic ways... maybe the work that usually goes into making digestive systems went to their creative brains!?


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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #17 on: August 23, 2010, 17:39:08 pm »
I also use hypoallergenic with most everything. But, as Jean said on a different post a lot of that stuff has high sals. so I wonder if that is what is doing it. I thought it was just from wiping his face so much from messy eating and spit up, etc.

Oh, also I do know he is sensitive to gluten and/or wheat. But, pain wise he has been free from this. So my doc said if he's pain free then not to worry about it. However, I have DRASTICLY cut down on my gluten intake and that did seem to make a difference on the poos, but I never thought about the cheeks.
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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #18 on: August 24, 2010, 05:04:50 am »
DH threatened to force me to eat a steak tonight at a golf clubhouse. I guess I'm getting rather weak and weepy? Anyways, we compromised, I bought some 'free-from' multivitamins, new acidophilus, and some bison meat. I'll try the latter tomorrow.

No more blood, but still have mucuous. Today was a better sleep day than the weekend so I'm still hoping that the sal levels are decreasing and he's not quite clear of it all yet. My BFF reminded me tonight that I can't have baby at 100% and mommy at 10%...


Offline sherry lynn

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #19 on: August 24, 2010, 17:39:05 pm »
So true. You do have to take care of yourself. Who know that would be the most difficult part of being a mother.
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Offline EloysH

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #20 on: August 24, 2010, 23:25:19 pm »
the doc told me yesterday that excess acid will cause some mucus to be excreted, it doesn't always have to be due to a food not agreeing.  I think that's what we are seeing in teh alst few weeks as it always coincied with a refluxy day.  Anyway, food challanges due to start, in a week, we will see! triple yay.

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #21 on: August 25, 2010, 03:04:55 am »
Had a very rough afternoon here (the new vitamins?? supposed to be safe) so I didn't try the bison afterall. Interesting about acid. SIL suggested hormones might be our problem as S gets teenage-like pimples (and I had m/s the whole pregnancy).

My hair is falling out like mad. Perhaps the anemia is worse than I thought...


Offline lizzyr

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #22 on: August 25, 2010, 14:28:58 pm »
Keep your chin up Gypsymom! Will have a think abou tother iron sources that may be ok for you. Sorry about the brief message but I'm meant to be working and just wanted to check in and see how you were doing. Thinking of you.

Offline EloysH

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #23 on: August 25, 2010, 14:35:39 pm »
hugs luv  :-*

 what country are you in?


my hair starting fallaing out at 4 months....  same for Ds1. Its normal, pretty darn sure.

Just remember, withdrawls, withdrawls,  breathe.

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #24 on: August 25, 2010, 15:52:23 pm »
Just a quick note:

I started my elimination diet after E was diagnosed as failure to thrive and it took a full 3 weeks for her to stop losing weight and start gaining well. I travelled for a week after that and gain was only 2oz in a week. I'm completely back on it and it's taken a week but she's back to gaining well.

My Lactation Consultant told me 7-10 days for dairy out of your system, and then 7-10 out of your lo's. So 3 weeks makes sense then.

And yes, dairy is in everything. I looked at hot dogs the other day and found it as the SECOND ingredient! My friend informed me that salt and vinegar chips do too.

You do need to eat more, and believe me I know the fear that comes with that. Is your lo getting weighed? What are you eating on your rice? And have you tried changing your rice brand? I lost the link but I did read that anything in Canada with less than .5% of any ingredient can say free of it. Ie. less than .5% dairy - they don't even have to mention it! The other thing that stands out is your tea - is there colour added to it? Here caramel colour (which isn't always listed as an ingredient) is derived from dairy. I'll try to find that link because it was very helpful.

Here's another one that I use faithfully:

http://food-allergies.suite101.com/article.cfm/milk_ingredients_on_food_labels

Best of luck :)
Vicki - nursing student and proud mother to three refluxers in two years





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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #25 on: August 25, 2010, 17:56:09 pm »
Thanks, Vicki! Hugs for you too.

I'm in Canada (does that show on my sidebar?).

I already went through what I thought was the 'normal' postpartum hair loss about a month ago. So this is a surprise. However, when I picked S up this morning, there was a huge patch of hair on his sheet too so maybe my hormones are changing??

Wanted to share this (gross!) photo with y'all. Still slimy, but dare I believe it might be seeds???


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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #26 on: August 25, 2010, 19:15:11 pm »
I can't see your sidebar with my blackberry or anyone's avitars :(
If I recall correctly, you live out west - BC or Alberta? The Superstore has been a Godsend for food alternatives in their natural foods section.
Yay if it's seeds though! That should mean that things are working out of your and your lo's system :D. I found once that happened, it's normally easy to track if you have a flare up.
Re hair loss: my twins lost their hair twice well after they were on formula. (Within 2 days of each other both times too :o. ), and E has just lost her hair for the second time too around the same age and she is pretty well EBF (I don't count 2oz of formula for much). My mother told me that I also lost my hair twice around the same age, so genetics may be playing a large role in that. My hair is also falling out to the point I'm worried about balding lol, and it started right around the time I got my period back at 8 weeks. I'd say most likely hormonal too.
Isn't it funny when you get excited about a poo? :D
Vicki - nursing student and proud mother to three refluxers in two years





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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #27 on: August 30, 2010, 12:49:32 pm »
You do need to eat more, and believe me I know the fear that comes with that. Is your lo getting weighed? What are you eating on your rice? And have you tried changing your rice brand?

S got weighed last week and he's put on a pound in about six weeks, so about 75g per week I guess, which is not too bad. I'm not weighing myself but I think I'd guess I've lost about 6lbs in that same period.  I put sunflower oil on my rice and sea salt. I did try Ryza as well for rice milk but the health food staff have a lot more confidence in Rice Dream. Have used more than one brand of rice (not really on purpose) without much effect although have recently learned that basmati and jasmine rice are not allowed on the Fed up diet (I haven't been having those kinds though).

Moan, moan, moan. Doing the 5am feed and feeling so hungry and sad. I've been on this extreme ED since July 30 (a whole month!) and even further reduced based on suggestions to reduce salicyclates the last 10 days. He is good, but the poops are still mucuousy. I *really* want to BF longterm, but this is off the hook. I have not cheated even once (although did have a few small accidental dairy slipups) but I don't know how much longer I can handle this. I was going to try a plain peeled potato today but then S had a super fluxxy day for no reason I could tell so I didn't.

I am dreaming about food again. Sigh. But he is doing so well (despite not getting rid of the mucuous) that I can't give up.


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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #28 on: August 30, 2010, 20:53:49 pm »
Don't give up Shannon!  You are going to be adding new foods soon and then everytyhing will look better!   jujst keep adding the new foods!    I too am spooo daunted about being on this diet long term.  But feeling better now that I know he culd handle some high sals for a day or too without becoming a "crazy baby".     Just get as many "lows" into your diet as you can and fast  :P

The poo looks great!  ;D  I love the seeds,  however is the jelly bits mucus, or is it just the normal stuff?   I truly can't tell from the photo.

I have no written info on mucus poo for your Dr by the way.

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #29 on: September 01, 2010, 04:19:41 am »
You are going to be adding new foods soon and then everytyhing will look better!
Sigh. It sure doesn't feel like it. Last night I tried a plain, peeled russet potato. Today I got 3 icky poops between 5am and 11am. Morning nap was okay, but then he woke from his pm nap only an hour into it, screaming. I could not even console him, let alone resettle although he seemed not too bad when I took him out into the living room and then he sat in the swing. Over the course of the afternoon and eve, his eczema began to flare. It's not too bad and even though he has been squirmy/gassy this eve (had to break down and comfort feed) I think the reaction is winding down. Allergic to potato seems so unlikely... and the worst part is, I confounded my own results! Yesterday at noon I was running low on rice so I beefed up what I had by putting it in a rice wrap - I thought it would be safe since tapioca flour was the only other unusual ingredient. When I went back to double check the label, I discovered it was made in a facility that also uses tree nuts. It is so hard to believe that such tiny amounts, further diluted in the breastmilk can make a difference!!

Anyways, I guess we could take a poll: was it the potato, the tapioca, or the trace nuts?

I guess I'll roll back to my mini list for a few days and then re-trial the potato. Or maybe I should try something else. I bought some quinoa and some puffed millet today at the health foods shop. Also found some protein powder made from rice protein exclusively so I'd like to start making shakes with that (and rice milk).

The poo looks great!  Grin  I love the seeds,  however is the jelly bits mucus, or is it just the normal stuff?   I truly can't tell from the photo.
It is mucous, unfortunately. I haven't had another nice diaper like it in almost a week though - ruddy trials! My BFF is reading me the riot act about my ridiculously small number of foods. But I just want a happy, healthy babe (but he's my second and last and I don't want to give up BFing!).

Vicki, you are right about Superstore's natural foods section - very well stocked and much cheaper than the health boutiques. I'm an hour away from one but can't manage to go very often so am paying higher prices. If only my diet were broader, I could take advantage of some of their nice alternative foods. I do buy the rice pasta which is such a different texture from the rice noodles (Asian). Are you cooking separate meals for the girls?


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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #30 on: September 01, 2010, 23:10:06 pm »
Aw, (((hugs))), so sorry about the reaction.

I would suggest leaving the potato alone for now (I'm voting pot for the reaction, sorry).  But definitely try the quinoa.  Such a great food and would be wonderful for you to add.  I so wish you could have a huge steak.  My Gwynnie was intolerant/allergic to so so many foods, but I could eat steak and it helped so so much.  I know there are slight correlations for milk allergy/beef allergy, but you have to be able to function.  Would be such a huge plus for you!

Keep on hanging in there, and I am sending lots of hugs and vibes your way for some positive results to come your way soon!
    :-*

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #31 on: September 02, 2010, 05:33:52 am »
Shannon I try to cook the same meals, but my opart modified. I would lose my mind becoming a short order cook. Our meals are predictably simplw though - meat, potato and veggies. The more basic the food, the easier it is to accomodate my diet, dh's tastes and toddler food jags. I also started making bread from scratch and substitute real milk with almond milk. I was getting pretty crabby without carbs lol.

So sorry to hear about the reraction. E can no longer have any formula as she's sensitive to one of 3 common ingredients that exist in all formulas - even elemental ones. I'm at the point with her weight loss thayt I would happily put her on a bottle if she would just stop losing weight and grow, so I feel your frustration with your lo's reaction. Re potato - perhaps the starch in it? Best of luck :)
Vicki - nursing student and proud mother to three refluxers in two years





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Offline EloysH

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #32 on: September 02, 2010, 10:23:44 am »
Shannon that's so cr*p for you guys!  I am so annoyed for you about the potato - if it was the potato.  If it was the nut traces then you would be dealing with a VERY severe nut allergy right? 

 What type of potato was it? Not all potatoes are equal  :P Pink ones have moderate sals.  It didn;t have any hints of green or little buds coming off?

I would be looking at the chemicals in the rice wrap ie. any numbers - preservative 220 or 280?  They are very well known to cause problems.  If you bub is sensitive to sals and amines they will prob  be sensitivie to additives and preservatives.    In this RPAH elimination diet there is a specific food challenge for preservative 200 and one for 280, as they are a very "common" problem area.   


I doubt the tapioca flour that;s totally gluten free.   

Did you ge the booklet yet?  I sent it about a week ago now.

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #33 on: September 03, 2010, 05:21:18 am »
Vicky, that is so not fair! You are working so hard on this. I was eating almond butter on rice cakes but it seemed iffy so I ditched all nuts. I think Marsha was saying that J sometimes feeds better when he's hungrier - maybe going longer between feeds would allow them to be bigger, more hindmilk??

What type of potato was it? Not all potatoes are equal  Tongue Pink ones have moderate sals.  It didn;t have any hints of green or little buds coming off?

Brown baking potato (russet I think). I baked it with the peel on and then peeled it thickly and only ate the white flesh.

I would be looking at the chemicals in the rice wrap ie. any numbers - preservative 220 or 280?  They are very well known to cause problems.  If you bub is sensitive to sals and amines they will prob  be sensitivie to additives and preservatives.    In this RPAH elimination diet there is a specific food challenge for preservative 200 and one for 280, as they are a very "common" problem area.
They've got organic molasses, could that be it? The only other ingredient is xanthan cellulose. Is that a preservative? They're supposed to be for restricted diets.

Did you ge the booklet yet?  I sent it about a week ago now.
Nope. I checked twice today though 'cause I thought it could be soon too :)


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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #34 on: September 03, 2010, 11:32:03 am »
Xanthan gum is typically corn derived, not completely certain about xanthan cell use though....

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #35 on: September 06, 2010, 13:18:02 pm »
Have had a unsettled couple of days for no apparent reason (I'm thinking teething maybe?). Or the Vitamin D drops which are lanolin sourced?? I'm so sketch at giving them consistently.

Anyways, yesterday was our first really good day in a few so I decided to throw caution to the wind last night and trial oatmeal. I should have done the quinoa, but it takes longer to make and I only had a small window to eat before getting both boys bath/bed routine on the run. I know you said that one ended up being a problem for you Tari, but as you pointed out it would be good for my milk supply if he could handle it. At least in my case, we'll know definitively.

I can't imagine how good it would be nutritionally to get beef back so I think I'm going to have to try it and see. I don't think there is only super fresh source of organic stuff around here though. It will probably be vacuum packed and frozen, but I can always try it again later if a better source becomes available.

S has been giving me the most enchanting looks and smiles lately -- feels like "thank you, Mommy" :)


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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #36 on: September 06, 2010, 23:26:20 pm »
Keeping fingers crossed the oatmeal is ok!  Are you using the steel cut Irish oatmeal?  If you could add that and beef back that would be SO wonderful.

Awww, very sweet about your LO.   ;D

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #37 on: September 06, 2010, 23:58:33 pm »
good luck with the oatmeal  :)

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #38 on: September 09, 2010, 11:31:07 am »
Keeping fingers crossed the oatmeal is ok!  Are you using the steel cut Irish oatmeal?  If you could add that and beef back that would be SO wonderful.

Awww, very sweet about your LO.   ;D

No, just rolled oats (not instant). Are the Irish better? Unfortunately I am not sure if oatmeal is ok. I got one massive blowout poo after I ate it but it looked pretty normal for us (bright yellow, slimy, a few seeds) but he seemed much gassier and naps the day after were lousy so I didn't eat it a second time in case it was connected. My plan was to wait a couple of days and then try it again, but the last few days have been exhausting and frustrating... my supply has dropped (and perhaps his need is increasing too at just the wrong time - I thought it was a growth spurt, but it seems like my boobs are not responding). I can't believe I haven't added a single food in weeks  :-\ What should I do now? Oatmeal again? Try the beef (can only get frozen if I want organic)? Some other supply-boosting food? I was thinking that the idea of Tolerex is pretty hard to accept (plus so far nowhere orders it) so maybe I should bite the bullet and do RPAH low seriously (no book yet!) but since he already failed the potato (we think) and that was supposed to be low, I'm super nervous.

My nerves are shot. And now my inlaws are here and they don't have a clue (MIL FF all 3 of her boys) and they know S has 'a few allergies' but I'm not sure I can handle this situation!!

S just took all of the first side (with plenty of grabbing and wriggling) of what felt like a reasonably full boob and now he's getting dozy after a big chunk of the second side. Haven't had such a long NF in quite some time. I need more milk, in the daytime!!  :'(


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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #39 on: September 09, 2010, 11:56:05 am »
Shannon, hugs!  I hear you, this is getting really tough!  I think you really really need more foods for your sanity/stress/supply since they are all linked. He's probably just putting on some good amounts of weight and drinking you dry  :) Remember naps are always lousy during a growth spurt, they are more interesting in waking to eat.   

Here's an idea: forge ahead and keep eating one food for consecutive days,  without stopping that food until you are 100% sure that it is a reaction.  If you stop after only one day of the food you can never be too sure, and remember that our bubs have off days anyway, you need to look for patterns of consecutuve bad days, with all symptoms amplified to be sure that it is a food intolerance reaction. 

What is it other than bad naps and his frequent feeding that is holding you off from adding a new food? Is he mega relfuxy of just off?  If he is just a "bit off" I would forge ahead.

I am nervous about oatmeal for you because of the small gluten content.   To be honest I would try potato again and keep  going for a few days on it. Otherwise you willbe forever scared of potato.  You said there were other factors that could have caused the reaction. Or else Quinoa grain, or else lamb or veal.

Going on a "low" diet is a good idea, you will add at least 20 foods all at once that way. 

hugs hugs hang in there....  :)

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #40 on: September 12, 2010, 05:26:13 am »
Here's an idea: forge ahead and keep eating one food for consecutive days,  without stopping that food until you are 100% sure that it is a reaction.  If you stop after only one day of the food you can never be too sure, and remember that our bubs have off days anyway, you need to look for patterns of consecutuve bad days, with all symptoms amplified to be sure that it is a food intolerance reaction.
Right now I am trying his Vitamin D drops (given to him directly). I've been so inconsistent with them, so wanted to do a few days in a row. They are sourced from lanolin and I remember that using the cream on my nipples seemed to make them worse not better with J. Anyways, gave the drops yesterday and all naps were rubbish and we had some screaming, but once again my "lab" is contaminated because MIL gave a bottle of milk that was quite old. I couldn't remember when I pumped one part of two (the latter was fresh) but it was over a week ago. Oops. I may have been after the potato for all I know right now.

He was really bad again today and now I'm wondering if it was the basmati rice. I have not had that type before and I read somewhere that basmati and jasmine rice are not allowed on RPAH. I feel like I am splitting hairs and yet everything seems to matter!!

No book here yet. I am seeing a dietician that specializes in food hypersensitivities next Friday. I am asking if she is familiar with Failsafe/RPAH but I don't know yet. If she wants to supervise some other type of diet, I may have to do that as I need to do something *sustainable*!! I did give the vitamins again today.

Bad days for us are more fluxxy, screaming, gas, refusal to sleep or light/disturbed sleep, eczema/itching, mucusy diapers with frequent diarrhea, comfort feeding/scratching me/biting.

Maybe I should trial one other low food? I'd feel a lot better about adding a whole pile of them if S had convinced me of the safety of any food. Sigh.


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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #41 on: September 16, 2010, 04:56:46 am »
He was really bad again today and now I'm wondering if it was the basmati rice. I have not had that type before and I read somewhere that basmati and jasmine rice are not allowed on RPAH. I feel like I am splitting hairs and yet everything seems to matter!!

No book here yet. I am seeing a dietician that specializes in food hypersensitivities next Friday. I am asking if she is familiar with Failsafe/RPAH but I don't know yet. If she wants to supervise some other type of diet, I may have to do that as I need to do something *sustainable*!! I did give the vitamins again today.

Things are going well right now, but only because we are still at baseline. I decided not to try any other foods until after I've seen this lady (and take a peek at the handbook - thanks, Elo!!). I did stop giving him the vitamins (as well as the basmati rice) and he did improve and had great naps, etc. Do you know from your diet if the type of rice is an issue?


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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #42 on: September 17, 2010, 10:23:24 am »
Hi Shannon,

In the booklet on page 60 is the food chemical chart for gluten free grains and flours.  Basmati is listed as moderate for salicylates, so that could be your problem. Your aren't allowed to eat basmati on a "low" diet.  If he is sensitive to the  basmati it suggests that he is very sensitivie to salicyates.  

I have just received the "tolerance threshold" testing guidelines - for testing the amount of a group that you can tolerate. (I can send you a copy). This is to be done after you have have failed a food challenge and determined that LO is sensitive to that group.  In your case, it could be the basmati.  I could send you these guidlines, bascically if you react to moderate salicylates, then you are considered "very sensitive" and when tolerance testing it is suggested to try only 1 teaspoon every 3 days of a moderate salicylate food.  If there are no adverse affects after two weeks them move to the next level.  If you get a DEFINITE reaction go back to the previous level for a few more weeks.  

Rice that is considered "low' is white and brown short, mediums, long grain and arborio.  I would be REALLY interesting to see if LO can tolerate these - the more things that you he can handle for the "low" foods will hopefully give you confidence to move forward with more "low" foods.

I'll write about it on my thread too.  It says
 "most sensitive people are able to tolerate any amount of low salicylate foods,, and 1 serve daily of moderate salicylate foods, 1/10 of a serve of high sal foods and VERY HIGH sal foods are tolerated rarely.  The level of tolerance can vary over time"
« Last Edit: September 17, 2010, 10:57:18 am by EloysH »

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #43 on: November 30, 2010, 16:06:26 pm »
i've been reading this thread with interest as i'm on an ED and am slowly adding food back in (fish last night), my son has eczema and according to a skin test we did last week, he is severely allergic to egg and a bit to peanut.

how did things go for OP? :)
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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #44 on: December 17, 2010, 04:44:42 am »
Rice that is considered "low' is white and brown short, mediums, long grain and arborio.  I would be REALLY interesting to see if LO can tolerate these - the more things that you he can handle for the "low" foods will hopefully give you confidence to move forward with more "low" foods.

We have made some progress. No where near where I'd hoped we'd be by this point, but it's a start. The dietician is telling me to focus now only on adding foods to S's diet, but shouldn't I be trying something through the milk first, rather than just jumping right into carrots!?


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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #45 on: December 17, 2010, 13:23:24 pm »
That's what I would think. ??? Wonder what the rationale would have been for that?
Vicki - nursing student and proud mother to three refluxers in two years





Remembering my sleeping angels: 17 Jan 06, 30 Jul 09

Offline EloysH

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Re: Losing hope - can't get rid of mucous poops - should I add food anyways?
« Reply #46 on: December 17, 2010, 23:54:09 pm »
ok my dieticians recommend doing the milk first for anything that is a potential problem because its a fabulous filter.  FOr us that means for all "low" chemical foods for him - go for it.

For anything else, through my milk first.

We are not making as much progress as I would like at the moment either.  Will update my thread soon  :)