5 months old waking 3 times a night to feed + extra wakings

[sherry lynn]

Thanks Megan Do you do the solids one hour after BF? He is a wonderful solids eater. So I might have to play around with that a little.

Kirry - so are you sticking with the DF and then going to work on dropping that? Sometimes I really wise we would have persisted with the bottle feeding. I would have loved to do it the way you are. But, neither of my LO would take the BF for the dream feed. Well, and when I tried with Emory reflux was still bad so it ended in a nightmare. Every time I try to get him to take a bottle he acts like I'm trying to kill him, and then he behaves the same way for the next feeding. I think because I use a nipple shield, so he feels the plastic and just freaks oh well.

Resettling is a no go here.   Only the swing will work for that, and that's only about 50% of the time.

He will either resettle on his own, or not at all. Today though, DH and I talked about it and if he woke at the 40 min mark for the second nap we were going to try pu/pd, or pat/sh. He seems to respond better to pu/pd. But, we've never tried it much during the day.

Funny enough (must be the EASY minds thinking a like) I have been thinking about how I would like to do the transition. I actually called Lyle's school today to confirm starting and ending times as I was thinking about this.

Lyle is starting Pre-k next month. 5 days a week, 3 hours a day. Soooo..... Emory really is going to have to do the short AM long PM. I thought about it today and as long as I don't start getting EWs then I'm just not going to stress too too much about that super short A time. But, I like your idea of a min or two at a time. Oh, I also thought... if he is just going to keep taking 1h10m naps anyways then I'll push it out, if I can get a good PM nap. The PM naps have just been so hit or miss that I have been reluctant to mess with the morning one too much.
I know I can do asleep at 2h20m and still get a 1h10m nap so after a few days I'll work on that.

This will be Lyle's School routine  Mon-Fri 8-11.
It is 15 min away. So I figure we will leave no later than 7:40
Emory and I back home 8:15ish

Leave the house to pick him up 10:40 (so he will have to be up a tad before this)
Back home 11:20ish

So, I can't really every get a super long nap in the AM 7 days a week.
So I'll have to just push out the A time enough to keep EWs at bay.

With all the early bedtimes I think wake up might be creeping up a bit, but.... before that I had noticed that Emory seems to sit at a natural wake up time of about 7:20.
So, that already puts us at
Asleep 9:30ish.
And he'll already have to be back up at 10:35ish.
So, I'll either have to start waking him early, or just except an hour nap there.

What do you think?

Eloys - how are things going with the teething.
The second top tooth still hasn't popped through here.

[bug_blues70]

No, if I do it that close to her bottle, she won't take hardly anything. I have to wait at least two hours so I'm doing it about an hour before she goes down (her atime is about 3) but sometimes if we are out and about and I get home right before nap, I'll feed her first so that she won't be hungry for her nap. So sometimes it's up to 2:45 or so after her bottle.

[huntersmummyinoz]

sherry, with that timing with school runs, i'd be inclined to stick to a 9 to 9.30am nap window for first nap. it may naturally shorten a little earlier than you'd like but i cant see any other way around that. other thought for getting better second nap is to shorten his first one (eeek! - dont know if i'd be game enuf myself), longer second nap and then short catnap, so same total sleep in day as two good naps. and i'd use nothing but the swing for the third nap. may be hard to get him on that if he is already resisting 3rd nap regularly tho   this works for us when we have playgroup or outings on weekends (he actually often does a 2 hr nap for his second one instead so dont need the third). otherwise yeah, i'd go with 2hr20 second A time, 2hr21, 2hr22 etc etc. as you said if he is only going to have two naps in a day well you may as well work on pushing it out. maybe try something a bf top up before second nap (or split feed one side before and other after nap) or maybe give him a coconut yoghurt or something to hold him out and see if that helps him nap any longer. yes we are keeping df for now, will give it a couple of weeks and then start to drop it.

[sherry lynn]

Yeah, I was thinking about cutting the first nap a little more, to see if I get a longer second nap. Reread part of GF this morning and, of course, that's what she recommends. I also keep thinking about the one little line in BWSAYP were she talks about most nine month olds being on a 45min morning nap.

So what is your routine looking like these days Kirry?

Megan - I think I might try moving out solids a little.

[huntersmummyinoz]

typical day here:
6.30am wake and meds
7am bottle
8am breaky
9.45 cracker and water
10 - 12 nap
12 bottle
1 lunch
3 to 4.15 nap (often only doing an hour here but i wake by 4.15 atm to preserve bedtime, was 4.30pm last week but he was taking a while to fall asleep)
4.15 bottle
5.30 dinner
6 snack (rice cake, rice stick or something with our dinner)
6.20 meds and upstairs for bath, massage, pjs etc
6.50 bottle, story
7pm in bed
10.15 df

sherry, if you are shortening the am nap then i'd keep offering it as early as you can get away with (ie. as early as you can without causing ew) so that you can fit a nap into that time before you have to pick up lyle for as long as possible. emory isnt much of a sleeper while out and about is he?

[sherry lynn]

Thanks Kirry    That routine looks really good.
Can you believe that that second nap is only an hour, already!!!!! Things were know where like this with Lyle and Hunter. (and Jarrah too, if you're still reading Elo

Nope, he's not a good napper out and about. I wish he was because then in a few months I could just do a nap in the car while running errands or something. He's like Lyle and takes FOREVER to fall asleep in the car, if he does.

We had a great day today. Only thing is he was was OT by bedtime. I did the same A time. The only thing I can think of is sleep begets sleep and having two slight extensions in A time today caused him to be a little more tired.

We had one waking already, but he put himself back to sleep. HURRAY!!!
I'm going to type the routine, mostly because I need to organize my notes for my journal anyways.

I had a thought. He's night sleep is really long, often. But, this is with NWings. So I guess that effects naps as well.

I saw somebody do this on the BC board, so I'll do it. They put the time the LO is in bed in ( ) then the time they fell asleep outside of them.

Bed last night: Bed 5:46
asleep 6:05ish  (seriously!!!!)

Eat 10:56
Cried out 2:00ish, put himself back to sleep. YEY!!
Cried out 4:26 Fed one side at 4:56am. He was not impressed with feeding on one side only. I sent DH in to do pat/sh 
Stir 6:36 (he always stirs here, sometimes he wakes for the day, especially if the feed was a long time ago. (that's why I fed one side at 5ish  )
7:37 wake for the day
E 8:00
Solids 9:00

[sherry lynn]

Hit tab and it posted, sorry

7:37 wake for the day
E 8:00   Solids 9:00
A  (2h7m, asleep @ A time of 2h15m)
S (9:44) 9:52-11:27

E 12ish   Solids 1ish
A (2h20m, 2h30ish)
S (1:47) 2:00ish - 3:37

E 3:40ish Solids 5:30ish
A
E 6:35
S (6:50) Very settled at 6:56, but I don't think he was a sleep until slightly after 7.
Cry out 7:56

So 2x1h35m naps today!!!!

I've been feeding at 3 hours A time after second nap and then putting into bed. I might start trying to have him in bed at 3 hours A time as the last few days this does seem to be too much as the other A times are extending, makes sense, he's more tired now.

[EloysH]

Hi 

Muddling through a bit here. Absolutely exhausted from Ew's and DH keeps going out to bucks nights, we have three weddings coming up - which is really stressing me out  as to how I will feed Kai and still attend etc.

 Second bottom tooth is one corner through, he is demanding breast feeds left right and centre and I'm letting him, he's very grouchy. He's eating a little more solids now. He is very very good at his finger foods but hopeless with feeding  mush off a spoon, he still wants to suck it off (and hold it all himself) and not open his mouth very much.

He's EW again, but summer time just started so that fixes it over night    Still NW'ing 2 to 3 times. I am about to start reducing the minutes of all other feeds other than the dream feed.  He's been on chicken two days so I have some confidence to start reducing the night milk intake.

Good to read what you guys are doing so I know what I've got coming next 


 Kirry I admire how you are so organised wuith your routine and have tackled each issue one by one sucessfully. So only one night feed then? 

What is this cracker snack you have found?

Sherry: wonderful news about your great day, you are doing a fantastic job!  You'll get to where you want to be in no time 


Megan: I am doing that too... trying to have some sort of food before the nap (feed or solids)  IN the past few days I put him down without a feed or solids close to nap time and he only did 45 mins naps.  This happened twice.

[sherry lynn]

Today is horrid, horrid, horrid.

He woke at 1:30ish for a feed. Took a good feed.
Woke at 4:45. I was going to feed but I had to use the restroom so I asked DH to go in, and he actually got him back to seelp.
Well he woke at 5:45   So DH tried it again and Emory lost his mind, so DH came to get me, but then Emory got quite and looked like he was going to go to sleep.
Oh well....
Both boys are having a very very rough day.
First nap fine here. But second A time he was grouchy, but I kept him up. Then he was screaming and screaming. I ended up putting him in the swing because I was trying to get Lyle down as well.
Guess the new A time was just too much today.
Not expecting a good second nap. But, I'll up the A time and see if I can get a catnap out of him.

Eloys I Hope that tooth comes through quickly for you.

How are you going about feeding the chicken?

[huntersmummyinoz]

hugs girls, hope you get some better nights very soon, those PITA teeth!

elo, cracker is just a rice cake (unfortunately not something exciting i'm wondering what i could make with pears, gluten free flours and maybe quinoa flakes instead of oats... i'm such a recipe person tho so will take a LOT of trial and error.

sherry, some good naps on that day you posted. i'm sure you are aware of this, but just watch out for too many early bedtimes in a row as you dont want to reset his morning wake up time k has been eating chicken steamed, then puree with a little water. have just progressed to small chopped pieces last night and he LOVED it.

well  we have been on one night feed for a week (only wish that meant one nw...) BUT both my boys STTN last night til 7.15am too bad i was up twice tho and awake from 6am

thinking of you both

[EloysH]

thinking of you too Sherry and all of Emorys teeth and the poor darling up every hour! You weren't to know that he was teething!  Heck I didn't see Kais first tooth until the whole surface was through... whilst the poor thing was miserable for days!

[sherry lynn]

Thanks Elo
We have 7 now. So we should be good for awhile as soon as the 8th comes through.

[EloysH]

well I tired to cut down the minutes that he feeds at the first feed (11pm) and it backfired so badly!  He woke and cried on and off for 1 hr 40 mins, we kept going in and getting him back to sleep, then he would wake a second later crying again.  He was defo quite unsettled, I am wondering if the kaffir lime leaf is still causing trouble - he ate one two days ago (he's intolerant to them)  or whether it was the teeth - but both surfaces are fully through. We gave meds anyway but it made no difference.

[huntersmummyinoz]

when does he typically feed at night now?

[EloysH]

so typically hes feeding between 11-12pm for a feed lasting about 7 mins and then waking about  4:00 - 4:30am for a very big long feed lasting about 15-20 mins, the last 10 mins would be slow comfort sucking to fall back asleep.  I usually let him do that as I am so tried I don't want to hear him cry!

   During the day his feeds are about 5 mins of very fast efficient swallowing.

Every few nights we get an additional waking somewhere between those two feeds.  He wakes around 6-6:30am.

I have a theory that he he is getting too much day sleep and thus having long NW's cause he has a sleep debt. He averages about 3 .5 hours day sleep in total so I have started trying to cut his naps to 2 x 1.5 hours.  Yesterday he did 1 x 2 hour nap then 1 x 45 mins, but still had the long NW'ing. 

Going to try again tonight and see what happens, and keep limiting those day sleeps and see where we get in a few days.