More Nap Questions - EASY needs some work

[Noriko378]

Hello,

  I'm back again because I need some help with tweaking the EASY routine for my son. He is now 25 weeks old and for the last 2-3 weeks, we were getting naps between 1.5-2 hrs at a time (3 naps per day, 2 long ones and a 30 minute CN) but for the last week or so, we're back to 35-40 minute naps again! Just when I thought I can rest easy for a bit *sigh* Anyways, a couple of things to note, we've completely gotten rid of his pacifier so he goes to sleep now with a lovey. He also goes to sleep independently where as before, he needed to be rocked until he was VERY sleepy before we could put him down. Here is the EASY routine for today.

previous bedtime: 9:00 p.m. (I know this is a later than normal bedtime but it's what works for my son)

A: 7:30 a.m. (feed)
S: 8:00 a.m.

A: 9:05
E: 10:30
S: 11:35 (W/D started at 11:00, in bed by 11:10 - took him 25 minutes to go to sleep and tired cues did not appear until 11:25)

A: 12:07 (30 minute nap so I'm not sure if this was OT or UT because when he woke, he was happy and stayed in his crib playing for about an hr)
E: 1:45
S: 2:45 (W/D started at 2:15, in bed by 2:30, first sleepy sign did not appear until 2:40)

A: 4:45 (total sleep time is not 2 hrs, instead, 2 naps of 40 minutes in length - extended nap at 40 minute mark)
E: 6:30
S: 7:15

A: 7:45 (bath, massage, bottle, sing songs)
In bed by: 9:00 but did not fall asleep until 9:30 (he was pretty upset so I'm guessing he was WAY OT by this time.

Other note: LO started STTN about a month ago and averages about 11.5 hrs per night with usually a brief waking for a feed in the morning) Here are my questions:

1) should I shorten his A time in the morning to 2 hr 15? or 2 hrs? Seems that I'm in a UT/OT rut right now....need some opinions on what to do. I would like to work on getting the morning nap sorted out because that's determines how the rest of his days go.

2) Also, is it just me or are tired signs harder to read the older your baby gets?? My son remains happy and giggly even when I know he should be tired already so it's a struggle for me to figure out the right time to put him down. 

3) What does it mean when it takes them a long time to fall asleep? Is it normally because they are not tired enough or they are already OT?

Thanks again!!!!

[Noriko378]

Should I be moving this thread to the EASY forum instead? If so, please let me know. I've been trying out different A times for the LO for the last 2 days and I'm getting very mixed results. I would appreciate if someone could take a look at this and let me know what the heck I'm doing wrong here! 

Aug 31

A: 7:00 (fed and went back to sleep at 7:20)
S: 7:10

A: 8:30 (up for the day)
E: 10:30 (veggie, cereal and bottle)
S: 10:55 (w/d 10:30, in bed by 10:35)

A: 11:26 (woke up happy, tried extending, no luck)
E: 1:00 (half his normal bottle)
S: 1:50 (w/d 1:20, in bed 1:35)
A: 2:26 (no crying but still rubbing eyes and ears, left him to resettle)
S: 2:55

A: 3:55 (one hour nap..wohoo!!!!!  )
E: 5:00
S: 6:10 (w/d 6:00)
A: 6:45 (woke up again after 30 mins)
S: 7:00 (resettled)

A: 7:45 (bath, massage, bottle, sing songs)
In bed by 9:00, fell sleep by 9:20

Sept. 1

Today was a little wonky because I was out running errands while DH took care of the LO.

A: 6:30 (feed)
S: 7:00

A: 9:50 (I know!!! He woke up really late today - which he seems to always do whenever daddy is home)
E: 10:30
S: 11:50

A: 12:20 (30 minute nap)
S: 12:40 (resettled)

A: 1:20 (additional 40 minute)
E: 2:30
S: 3:37

A: 4:07 (another 30 minute nap - could not extend so I got him up)
E: 5:45
S: 6:10

A: 6:10 (another 30 minute nap)
S: 6:50 (resettled)

A: 7:30 (bath, massage, bottle and sing songs)
In bed by 8:50, fell asleep at 9:00


So where do I go from here? Do I try to reduce the 1st A time to see if I can get a longer nap or should I extend? I am so confused right now and just need a little bit of guidance. Please.....

[Yazzie]

Hey there Mirabel, I think this is routine related to so will ask one of the nap mods to move it to EASY.

You seem to have done a great job with regards to sleep training, well done mummy

So, your lo is about 5.5 months old now, and u look to be on a 4hr EASY, with one meal of solids per day, right?

Taking a long time to go to sleep could be either OT or UT and it really is true that as they get older, their tired signs become alot more difficult to read

Why not try 2.5 hrs for the first A of the day and see how the day goes?..if he takes 20 mins to go to sleep, take that into account of course.

[Noriko378]

Thank you for your suggestion, Yasmine! I'll try putting him down tomorrow after 2.15 (giving him 15 additional minutes to fall asleep) and we'll see how it goes. I have a feeling that he will still wake at 30 minutes but if he can resettle, than that is ok with me. It seems that lowering his A time is not making much of a difference because that's what I ended up trying today. I'll post our EASY below and maybe you can take a peek at it.

Sept 2
A: 6:50
E: 7:00
S: 7:20

A: 8:00 (resettled)
S: 8:10

A: 8:55 (up for the day)
E: 10:15 (veggie, cereal, bottle)
S: 11:17 (w/d 10:45, in bed by 10:55)

A: 11:49 (30 minute nap; woke up happy, did not resettle)
E: 1:20
S: 2:15 (w/d 2:00, in bed 2:05)

A: 2:45 (30 minute nap; resettled)
S: 3:15
A: 3:30 (loud truck went by - we live next to a busy street- grrrr.... )
S: 3:45

A: 4:20 (35 minute nap)
E: 5:20
S: 7:15 (A time was rather long because I was waiting for LO to give me tired cues - he never did until I took him to his darkened room so for sure this is OT)

A: 7:45 (bath, massage, bottle, sing songs)
In bed by 8:50, fell sleep by 9:10

[Yazzie]

Their cues become really mixed up as I get older, now don't they!

I think that up-ing the A time of that first part of the day would make a difference, how did things go?

[Noriko378]

Yes, they certainly do! Just when I thought I got the hang of it, the LO decides to change his tune again. LOL way to keep mama guessing...

Today, we had some success for nap #1. I put him down at 2.5 hrs and it took him another 15 minutes to sleep so 2.45hr in total and he slept for 1.5 hrs!!! and through a major thunderstorm too! I just put him down for nap #2 but I'm afraid this may be a little OT. He got the hiccups just when we were doing our w/d and it took me 15 additional minutes to get rid of it!

Here is our EASY for now...(will update as the day goes on)

A: 7:15
E: 7:20
S: 7:40

A: 8:30 (awake for the day)
E: 10:20
S: 11:15 (w/d 10:50, in bed 11:00)

A: 12:45 (1.5 hrs WOOHOO!!!!  )
E: 2:20
S: 3:38 (w/d 3:00, in bed 3:20)

**Update: Here is the EASY for the 2nd nap.

A: 4:10 (30 minute nap)
S: 4:22 (resettled)

A: 5:13 (woke crying - can I assume OT? He was still rubbing his eyes and yawning a lot) - could not resettle
E: 6:20
S: 7:20 (w/d - 7:00, in bed by 7:10 - fussed a lot -fighting CN) maybe not long enough A time?

- I think I should reduce the 2nd A time to 2:45 because total A time b4 second nap was 2.55 hr, what do you think?
- Also, if I get a fragmented nap, do I reduce the next A time as well? I tried to put LO down for his CN after 2 hrs A time and he was fighting it. I'm not sure if it is because he was already OT or
  he was UT.

**UPDATED

A: 7:56 (bath, massage, bottle, sing songs)
In bed by 9:00, asleep by 9:07

[Yazzie]

Curious to hear the updates

[Noriko378]

Well, today started off not so great. Nap # 1 was only 30 minutes long so I'm not sure if it was OT or UT. Here is our EASY so far:

A: 7:30
E: 7:40
S: 8:20
A: 8:50 (was going to get him but by the time I got to his room, he went back to sleep!   )
S: 9:00

A: 9:30 (awake for the day)
E: 11:25
S: 12:20 (w/d: 11:50, in bed 12:00, total A time: 2hr 50)

A: 12:52 (woke up happy and hyper! but still rubbing eyes, left to see if he would resettle- after 30 minutes, got him up)
E: 2:20 (half bottle only)
S: 3:17 (w/d: 2:50, in bed 3:00, total A time: 2 hr 25)

**updated
A: 4:47 (1.5 hr nap)
E: 6:20
S: 7:15 (w/d 7:00, in bed by 7:05, total A time: 2 hr 30)

A: 7:58 (bath, massage, bottle, sing songs)
in bed by 8:55, fell asleep 9:07

1) was the total A time in the morning too long? LO was not showing any tired signs until I started w/d - should I try 2.5 instead?
2) how much should I cut the next A time if I only get a 30 minute nap? 30 minutes?
3) I noticed that LO does not usually show tired signs until I start the w/d process. Could he be showing what I perceive as his tired cues out of habit instead? He usually just rubs his eyes first then to tell me he wants to be placed on the crib, he starts arching against me.

[Yazzie]

I agree that the first A was too long for him, 2.5 hrs may be more appropriate , especially that he gave you a long nap following it yesterday, however in case you get a 30 mins nap, I'd be aiming for an A time of around 2 hrs max, including wind down, and try to follow his cues for this. That said, cues can sometime be misleading as they get older, especially that some of the sleep cues may actually be boredom.

[Noriko378]

I'll aim for 2.5 max tomorrow for his A time and see. I was a little confused because the other day, he seemed to have been able to handle 2 hr 45 without any problem (I got a 1.5 hr nap at that time). But for today's 2nd nap, I kept his A time close to 2.5 and he slept for another 1.5 hr, so I'm not sure if it's his natural A time or is it because he was tired from this morning's 30 minute nap. I'll give it a go and we can take it from there.

BTW, if I haven't said it enough, thank you for all of your help Yasmine!. It's nice to know that I can go on this board and get some advice from some well seasoned moms!!!! 

[Noriko378]

Well, yesterday was a bit of a mess. Between 1 hr naps, 30 minute naps and a long late nap, the day was way off. Hoping that today is a little bit better. Here is yesterday's EASY:

A: 6:30
E: 6:45
S: 7:20

A: 9:15 (awake for the day)
E: 10:45
S: 11:47 (w/d: 11:15, in bed 11:25, total A time: 2hr 32)

A:12:47 (woke up and was still rubbing eyes, left to see if he would resettle- after 30 minutes, got him up)
E: 2:15 (half bottle only)
S: 3:00 (w/d: 2:30, in bed 2:45, total A time: 2 hr 15)

A: 3:30 (woke up crying)
E: 5:15
S: 5:40 (w/d 5:15, in bed by 5:20, total A time: 2 hr 10)

A: 8:20 (bath, massage, bottle, sing songs)
in bed by 9:35, fell asleep 9:50

I didn't have the heart to wake him up from his last night because he was so OT from the day. Today he woke up at 9:15 so we're going to work on getting him back to bed by 9 tonight.

[Yazzie]

Hey there hun, we're all there for one another, they do say it takes a village to raise a child, it now takes a forum

So, I think the first nap may have been UT, the point is that after short naps, you need to cap the following A by 30 mins, maybe more, depending on the lo's cues.

How did today go?

[Noriko378]

Hi Yasmine! LOVE the new avatar!! Soooo cute!!!

So today went a bit better but I'm still a little confused about a couple of things. First things, first..here is our EASY:

A: 7:00
E: 7:10
S: 7:45

A: 9:15 (awake for the day)
E: 10:45
S: 11:52 (w/d: 11:25, in bed 11:30, total A time: 2hr 37)

A: 1:15 (1 hr and 23 minute nap) - what the heck does that mean?!?!?! 
E: 2:35 (half bottle only)
S: 3:56 (w/d: 3:15, in bed 3:35, total A time: 2 hr 41)

A: 4:56 (woke up crying because he was startled by the dogs barking)
S: 5:20 (resettled)

A: 6:15 (bath, massage, bottle, sing songs)
E: 7:20
in bed by 8:00, fell asleep 9:23

So as you can see from the last bit, I tried to put him to bed early because I thought if I waited to give him his catnap, that his BT might get too late. Well, it took him an hour and a half to fall asleep!!!! Thank goodness there was no crying but his last A time was 3.5 hrs! I have no idea what happened there. I was expecting a lot of crying because I thought he would be massively OT but
he stayed in his crib and just played with his lovey until he fell asleep. I have no idea what to make out from this. Any ideas?

[Yazzie]

I think you did the right thing by skipping the catnap,  however looks like he wasn't tired enough before bedtime, as he was up @ 05.20, I'm guessing you had a good night, right?

I would go for 02.45 A time, looks like this is the magic number. You're doing a great job

[Noriko378]

Thanks for replying. When you mentioned to give him an A time of 2 hr 45..did you mean to apply that to ALL A times? or just the 1st? I'm still debating if 2.5 hrs is the way to go or not. I put him down for his 1st nap this morning with 2.5 hr A time and he woke up in 40 minutes and is playing in his crib (although he is rubbing his eyes)

Here is the EASY for today:

A 7:00
E 7:10
S 7:30

A 8:25
S 9:00

A 9:45 (awake for the day)
E 11:20
S 12:17 (w/d: 11:45, in bed 12:00, total A time: 2 hr 27)

A 12:56
E 2:20
S 3:12 (w/d: 2:35, in bed 3:00, total A time: 2 hr 20)

A 4:30 (1.5 hr nap)
E 6:00
S 7:00 (w/d 6:40, in bed 6:50, total A time: 2 hr 30)

A 7:30 (bath, massage, bottle, sing songs)
in bed by 8:35, asleep by 8:50