Im getting very desperate!! near 20 mnths & we are still having the same issues!

[*Jo*]

Im ready to throw this child out the freaking window at the moment, we are back to nap refusals, short naps, EW's, in fact we never really lost them!

SHould i just accept 45min naps? if i do then the day is a bit of a mess as hes grumpy for most of it and I have to stretch him to 6pm/6.30pm bedtime, then he always wakes around 5am-ish and we ALWAYS have to do Wi/Wo every freaking morning to get him back to sleep, then he only ever sleeps 30mins if he does go back to sleep.

I know theres been alot going on in our house lately and I most certainly do not have the patience or the stamina for this right now, so what do i do?

Ive tried 5 hour A time, 5.5 hour A time, 6, and even up to 7 hours (trying him on set naps yet again) and we get 45 mins to 1 hour varying. last week he had an A time of 4 hours  one day and slept 1.5 hours in teh car! (DH told me this, i was overseas)
The only time that isnt an issue for sleep is bedtime.

How is it that I sleep trained him for the first year of his life and the second year of his life he throws it back in my face!

Today we decided enough of this crap, we are going to do set times, so he was up at 5.40am today (after Wi/Wo gave us another 10mins of sleep) and decided 12pm would be nap time, well weve been doing Wi/Wo for 20mins now......

Heres how yesterday went for an example

awake 5.15am, Wi/Wo for 15mins and he went back to sleep till 6.15am
nap 11.20am (in car as we were out) till 12.15am (he woke a couple of times and fell back asleep)
bedtime was 6.15pm
awake at 5.25am, Wi/Wo for 10mins and fell back to sleep till 5.40am
nap - now attempting, its now 12.15pm, in the middle of a screaming mess of Wi/Wo

[katie80]

((Hugs)), Jo!  I'm sorry you're still going through this.  I know it's super frustrating and tiring.  It sounds like he's OT to me.  Is he still getting teeth?  If DD is teething and she's OT, she'll cry for a long time during WIWO and it's terrible, frankly, so I usually have to throw my set times out the window, and follow an A time of around 5-5.5 hr, but really watch for her cues.  Does he show any sleepy cues?  How long have you been doing the set nap time, now?  It may take him a little while to get back into it.

I think you could try a couple things.  Since he's waking relatively early in the morning, maybe try a set nap time of 11:30 am instead of 12 pm.  Or, you could try a set A time, so to speak.  If you spent a few days really watching everything about his morning and when he seemed to be getting ready to sleep (even logging it for that matter), something might jump out at you.

TBH, and I know this is not really BWing, but I would probably not plan anything for a few days and do whatever I could to get him a little caught up.  In my case, that would be driving around for a short CN in the morning (15-20) min and then a longer one in the afternoon (at least an hour), so that DD makes it to bedtime not as OT.  After a few days of this (yes, I've done it before), she'll usually start to do longer nights and then nap better as well.  I know it's not ideal and probably doesn't work for all LOs, but it's helped us from getting overly frustrated in the past, because I *knew* she would sleep when I wanted her to at those certain times.   

[*Jo*]

Katie - weve tried that as well, doesnt seem to make much of a difference at the moment. I think he could be teething slightly, yesterday we gave pain meds and it didnt make any difference.

he finally fell asleep at 12.20 and slept till 1.15, we are most likely gonna do a 7pm bedtime, although hes grumpy as anything!

Dh wants to put him to bed early at 5.30pm, then wake him up at 7 for half an hour or so, to try and reset everything, im not sure though

[babybarr]

((hugs)) Jo I'm not surprised you have very little patience you have so much on your plate.  Is he STTN still? 

Is he happy to stay in his cot when he wakes from his nap? If so I'd leave him there for another 45mins so he's resting for 1.5hrs.  I've taken to doing this a little bit when DS wakes early.  He has been known (although not for a long time) to go back to sleep on occasions.

I wonder if you should just do the super bed regardless esp. if your DH is on board, then at least if Caleb wakes at 5.30am the following morning you'll have gotten 12hrs from him, then maybe he'll nap better etc...

[*Becky*]

Hugs Jo - goodness you must be exhausted!
It does really sound like OT to me. My suggestion would be what katie said - 2 naps. A short one in the car and a longer one later in his cot but if he really will not do it then I would bring that nap forward to more like 11am for a bit and adjust bedtime.
I would also give meds before every sleep for now. If he short naps and will not re settle then like Laura said try to keep him in his room for some quiet time. Henry is not one for lying in his cot once he is awake but there are many days when I just sit in his room with him with low light and we just look at a book or have a cuddle with his toys.
bx

[*Jo*]

thanks everyone. Caleb is not one of those kids that plays by himself in his room when he wakes up, once hes up thats it..... so imagine my surprise this morning when he chatted to himself for half an hour!!!

Last night I tried the lamp on a timer thing, I explained it to him and we even practised a couple of times "what happens when the light is off? we very quietly stay in bed" and then "and when the light turns on?" i would turn it on "We jump up and say GOOD MORNING!" we did this a few times and he got very excited when the lamp would be on. So we set it for 7am because he went to bed at 7pm last night. we tried to get another nap into him yesterday in teh car but he just wouldnt have it but he lasted well until 7pm. (we were out looking at houses so we had no choice but to have this bedtime last night)

He moaned off and on throughout the night, which is unusual for him, then woke at 5.22am! I did Wi/Wo for 8 mins and he went back to sleep. he woke up again at 5.45am and we just left him for a bit, he wasnt overly crying, then it went quiet till 6am and this is where he was either chatting to himself or just quietly shuffling in his bed for the next half an hour before he started to cry out which is when I told DH to go in and turn on the lamp and make a big deal about how its now time to get up because the lamp is on and he did that.
So we made it to 6.30am!

as for naptime, ive tried 11am and we still got a 45min nap so the rest of the day was an absolute disaster! I think he works better if naptime is later and even if he still short naps he can handle the shorter afternoon better than a longer afternoon. last week he was doing 12 hour nights and still only napping 45mins so weve been stuck in this early morning stuff for ages

Do you think I should do the lamp thing for naptimes as well? so if we are going to have naptime at, say 12.30 and we aim for a maximum of 1.5 hours we set the timer for 2pm?

I will give meds before naptime as well.

[Tweakster]

I would try the lamp at nap as well.  I don't see how it can hurt?  Unless someone has a good argument :-)

Jo I tend to think a bit different from these guys and I don't think he's that OT.  Yes he's a little short on sleep in 24 hours but he is having long nights with an early bedtime so I kind of think he's doing ok.  I would never go back to 2 naps at this stage, unless he's clearly ill.  The nap isn't brilliant but it's not affecting his nights that much.  So I tend to agree with your DH and just do set times and say this is it.  This is naptime, this is bedtime, period.  You can lead a horse to water hey but the drinking isn't something we control!  But we can control when we offer the sleep.  And you are offering the sleep at reasonable, age-appropriate times so I think he kind of needs to fall in line.  Stay consistent, whatever you decide, because the inconsistency will be the downfall.

It sounds like the light in the morning may help you get the day pushed out though!

[katie80]

Yep, we all have a little different situation, and that's why BW is so great, because you do what works for your kiddo.  If you've tried the earlier nap time, but you think the later works better than stay with it.  Lord knows, we've had several 45 min-1 hr naps in this house, but as long as DD's not teething, she handles it 'ok'. 

I completely agree with Wendy on staying consistent; it's going to be best for all of you, really!  As I read back, you mentioned that yesterday (or the day before) was the first day going back to a set time.  I really think at this age, it can take a little while for them to settle into that, so if that's what you decide, just hang tight and stick with it! 

[*Becky*]

Yep, we all have a little different situation, and that's why BW is so great, because you do what works for your kiddo.

absolutely katie

[*Jo*]

well we had no issues going down for a nap today, he was asleep by 12.20 (i put him in his cot at 12.15) and he woke up at 1.20pm, so too early for the light to go off but we quickly switched it on and said "its time to get up now that the light is on" becuase I dont expect him to "get it" just yet and Im trying to get him to make the connection. i know he wont extend his naps so will just keep doing it this way for a bit.

realistically if I keep it at 1 hour for the naps and 12 hours at night (if we can keep getting that amount) do you think its a good routine? I dotn know many people who have their LO's on an hour nap during the day. He does still seem a bit cranky afterwards, so perhaps he does need a longer nap, he just doesnt have the ability to handle things as well after his nap so i guess hes telling me he needs more daysleep.

Wendy you are right, consistancy is key, especially for my spirited boy. guess I just have to keep at it huh?

[babybarr]

I think if he keeps up the long nights then I'd try not to worry. I def think the light for naps is worth a shot - I know the gro clock says it can be used for naps.

[Tweakster]

I dotn know many people who have their LO's on an hour nap during the day.

Yeah but those people aren't necessarily getting longer nights.  They may be getting 10.5-11.5 hr nights.  12 hours is brilliant.  So yeah, 13 hours in a 24 hr period is smack dab where he should be.  Most sleep experts say 12-14 hrs total at this age, and they say a nap between 1.5-2 hrs.  So he's giving you 1 hr and a longer night. 

I think if you are consistent that the nap might naturally elongate.  He probably does need more day sleep, but he's also saying 'I don't have the drive for more with a really long night guys!'.  This is the exact balance we are trying to find at the moment and it's really tough.  Except we run into the opposite problem - long nap and short nights.

[*Becky*]

yes i agree. 12 hours is an amazing night. We usually get a nap of about 1.5 but he only does 11 hours and he manages. I think 13 hours in total is great!
I would only worry if he is cranky on the hour nap and then I guess if he will not lengthen it you may have to wake him after 11.5 night and see if it helps the nap. It may, it may not.
bx

[*Jo*]

He doesnt always do 12 hours, its just that when he does, he still only does 45mins - 1 hour in teh day, so i dont worry too much about it when that happens.

last night he really only did about 10.5-11 hours and then the one hour today. Im hoping once he gets to a 7am wakeup we can try and cut the nights a bit shorter to see if that helps the nap cos I think he really just needs that 30mins more daysleep to help him last.

Did i mention that last week while i was overseas Caleb did a couple of days where he did 13 hour nights and still a one hour nap??!!!

[*Jo*]

well so much for being consistant! today we went to the mall while DH had an appointment. I figured we would be fine because DH would be back just before naptime and we would go home and do the nap there, well can you imagine my surprise while walking around the mall at 11.10am to find Caleb was asleep in the stroller??!!??!! this NEVER happens, he looked so darn uncomfortable, its not the kind you fall asleep in, its just a pusher, the other one we have you can recline back etc and its comfy for sleeping in, this is just a cheap lightweight one we use around the malls. So instead of our agreed set nap time of 12.30 we had a 45min nap in the stroller! he mustve had a sore neck though cos his head was cranked over.

But heres the thing, it was WONDERFUL!!!! I was able to go into shops and browse, I took my time doing the groceries, I bought myself a smoothie and didnt have to share it with him, he just slept, through everything, there was loud noises ,people yelling, loud bangings going on that i was sure would wake him, but he slept through it all! It was so nice to finally be one of those parents that walks around a mall, has a kid that just falls asleep  and doesnt worry about it, of course at first I was trying to work out the rest of the day, how would it affect his nightsleep etc and then I thought "stop obsessing and just enjoy it woman!" and I did! and when he woke up we had lunch together at the mall and we got a quick catnap in the car that afternoon as we went to drop some stuff off. now im really hoping this doesnt affect things but oh well, whats done is done!

the thing thats really bothering me is these early wakings, again this morning he woke at 5.10am and was awake off and on until 6.25am until we finally got him up. I did do Wi/Wo at some stage (I cant remember when though, i was so tired)
so hes sleeping right through but its anytime after 5am that he wakes up and is restless for the rest of the morning. Im wondering why this is??
so this is how today went:
awake (?) couldve been anytime from 5.10am - 6.30am when we got him up, he would go quiet adn then every 5/8mins he would cry out
nap in stroller - 11.15-11.55am
catnap in car - 4.15-4.35pm
bed 7.25pm

what do you think of that? so there are two things going on here, the early wakings from 5am onwards and the 45-60min naps
what am I missing??