Up all night!... on the hour every hour and running out of ideas, pls help!

[rachgosden]

Hello All,

Thanks for taking the time to read my post.. i am desperate for any help/advice/tips and support!!  I have a 19 week old daughter who has suffered really badly with reflux since she was born.  As a result of her waking every 60 - 90mins in pain (and so being fed to soothe her throat from burning) she has never learnt to settle herself to sleep.  Medication for reflux is now working (she is being weaned early also)and so it is time to tackle sleep!  I have only being trying baby whisperer techniques for a week and there have been some successes (she is now in her cot rather than my bed and is being fed only 1 or 2 times at night). But i am hitting a brick wall when it comes to sleep!! I am not sure what to do when she cries out for attention (not a hungry/pain/temperature cry) - how long do i ssh/pat, pupd, keep my hand on her for? Sometimes i am doing it for an hour and she gets more and more worked up. I can usually manage to get her settled in the early eve and then dream feed but after the dream feed i am often up on the hour, or sometimes half hr too.  Pls help!!!!!!  Alswo in day time if i dom't get her to sleep, at what point do i give up and move on with routine? (i could spend hours trying to get her to get a nap and then its dinner time!!) Massive thanks in advance for any hints + tips!!! x

[anna*]

((((hugs)))) and welcome to the boards

How old is your little one? What sort of routine are you aiming for?

[rachgosden]

Hello,  my little one is 19 weeks old. I am aiming for a routine that starts at 7am and allows naps in the morning and at lunch time (1.5 - 2hrs) and then a cat nap in the afternoon. The day finishes with a milk feed, bath, story and then bed by 7pm.  I also dream feed between 10 and 10.30pm.  At the moment she tends to cry for food around 2.30am/3.00am and then occassionally at 5am (usually if she has not had both sides at earlier feed - i'm breast feeding). She had one day where she did really well and napped between 9-11am, 12.30 - 2.30pm and 4-5pm but day time has been a disaster since and the night time always is!!).

[anna*]

So what sort of days are you having at the moment? How long is she awake before your start your wind-down for the first nap?

[rachgosden]

The morning is the best part of the day at the moment, she wakes at 7 (or i stop with ssh/pat at 7) and she has a milk feed and baby porridge for breakfast.  She then plays til about 8.45 and then i start the wind down with a story etc and she happily goes to sleep at 9.  She often wakes after 45 mins (which i assume is the end of her sleep cycle) and so i have to ssh/pat her but she tends to go back to sleep for without a fuss til about 10.45/11.00. 

She then gets up and has lunch between 11 and 11.30.  She usually shows signs of tiredness (blank stares/yawn/flailing legs) around 12.15 so i start the wind down again. Some days she sleeps well (for up to 2 hrs) at lunch time and some days its a nightmare and she won't go down at all.  I'm aware that only 1hr 15 awake time is not a lot - should i extend this? have been airing on side of caution not wanting her to become over tired and so fight sleep more.

Again she then gets up and has milk feed and dinner around 3.30.  Play time til around 4.45/5.00 when she shows signs of tiredness again and i put her down for a cat nap of about 45 mins (again, sometimes successfully and sometimes not).  She then has another milk feed, bath, story and in bed for 7pm.  She will often go down without too much of a fuss at 7, sometimes i have to ssh pat a few times. 

I aim to dream feed at 10.30 but sometimes she wakes at 10 (i tried changing df to 10pm but sometimes she would not take a good feed -maybe too asleep/not hungry???).  This is then usually where the fun starts!! On a good night i am up 10 times between midnight and 7am.  The most that she sleeps is 1hr 45-2hrs at a time - that is usually somewhere between 1.30 and 3.30am.  She is then up a lot after that. 5am is the worst time as she wakes with a high pitched squeal and if i don't get there quick enough it errupts in to a full cry and it can take a long time to settle her again. If i do get there in time i can usually ssh/pat her + replae her dummy and she will drift off again.... only to wake several minutes later. I have experimented with differing the length of time i keep my handon her back and it seems that no matter how long i keep it there (tried 5 mins to 20 mins) she wakes up with another squeal and e are back to square 1 again.  This continues until 7am when i get her up to try and start the day afresh!!

In summart, the day times are getting there and are wonderful in comparison to the nights, i am completely at a loss with night times!!!

Thank you so much for helping!!

[anna*]

Do you think the dummy is a problem? Do you think she's waking up when she loses it, and needs you to replug it?

[rachgosden]

Sorry for late reply, internet access went down.  I am not sure about the dummy as sometimes it is a problem and she wakes up when it falls out and other times she sleeps soundly without it.  We had an amazing night on 8th sept - she only woke 3 times after dream feed - 1.30am, 5.30 am and 6.30am.  The only thing i did that night that was different was to put her 'amber teething anklet' on.  I didn;t use it last night and i was up 7 times again so i am going to use it again tonight and see what happens...??!!

[anna*]

Interesting! Let us know how it goes.

[rachgosden]

I put the anklet on her last night and was up a lot, she took a few times to settle but when she did she would sleep for about 2 hours and then wake and take a few attempts to get her to settle again... however, when i woke up this morning and took her out of her grobag the anklet was not on her ankle and so she must have wriggled it off in the night!  I am going to test it again tonight and see how it goes! will keep you posted!

[rachgosden]

the anklet test proved interesting, i was up 6 times after dream feed which is a few less than normal (average is still 10) but she also settled after feed at 4.10am and didn't wake up til 7 am which is unheard of!!! She is usually up a lot between 5am and 7 am.  Last night i used the anklet again and was up 5 times. Still not sure if the anklet is actually making a difference or if it is just coincidence but i daren't try a night without it yet just in case!!

I am however getting myself a bit confused and wondered if i could clarify some points about the technique...

1)  It seems that i have a more successful night if i df at 10/10.30 and then feed again at 1.30 and again at 4.30 - but this does not follow the 4 hour easy (she manages this in the day time feeding at 7.30am, 11.30am and 3.30pm)...should i persist with just the one feed over night in the hope that it'll calm down?  (If i feed once i am up 9+ times, if i feed twice i tend to be up less than 6 times)

2) At bedtime, i bf around 6pm, followed by a bath and a story and then i say that its night time, give her a kiss and put her in the cot with her muslin cloth (she has taken to snuggling with this) and a dummy (tried it without but she screams).  Sometimes she settles immediately, but most times she will cry after a few minutes and i leave her for a minute to see if she will settle herself (she's only done this once!) and then i go in, replace dummy if it has fallen out and put my hand on her back (she sleeps on her side with a sleep positioner as she has never taken to sleeping on her back due to reflux).  I keep my hand there until her eyes are almost, or sometimes, fully closed, gently release the pressure on her back and exit the room.....most of the time she settles immediately...........

-is this the correct was of doing things?

-also, should i try to wean her off the dummy... if so, what is the best way of doing this?



She then wakes up 45 minutes later, like clock work!! I again leave her minute but the cry usually escalates and so i go back in and ssh/pat and repeat the hand on back.  I only stay a few minutes... should i be staying longer? if so, how long??  She sometimes wakes up after 10 minutes (again like clock work)...and sometimes 10 minutes after that before settling again..... would this change if i held my hand on her longer?

3) Lastly,  by ssh/patting and having my hand on her, how will she learn to self settle? won't she just learn to depend on me putting my hand on her back???

Sorry for so many questions, i am having a crisis of confidence and want to make sure that i'm doing it properly!!!!!

Thank you!!!!!

PS/ i am pretty sure she is teething at the moment so this may be disturbing her sleep further??

[anna*]

Yes, teething will disturb sleep - give pain meds if you think she's uncomfortable.

Do you think the dummy is a problem? When she wakes at night, how do you settle her back to sleep?

With shush-pat, you need to stop shush-patting before she is asleep. As soon as she is calm, slow the patting, quiet the shush-ing, gently remove your hand. You are aiming for her to fall asleep without you touching her otherwise yes, the shush-pat can become a prop.

How are her daytime naps, what is her routine?

[rachgosden]

that makes more sense about the ssh/pat. I will make sure i don't keep my hand there.

I think that the dummy may be a problem.  She is always put to bed with it and when she wakes over night she is settled with it again.  The majority of the time she doesn't wake up when the dummy initially falls out, however on the occassions that she does wake after 10 mins that could be happening? As it is not the norm for this to happen i am reluctant/hesitant to try and settle her without it but that may be me trying to take the easy route!...when removing the dummy i assume that you just do the technique as normal and eventually she will get used to not having it??

Her E.A.S.Y is:

7.00 awake

7.15 bf

7.30 breakfast (baby porridge)

8.45 wind down with a story

9.00 in cot for nap time

11.00 awake

11.15 bf

11.30 lunch (puree)

12.45 wind down with a story (sometimes start wind down and sleep at 12.15 if she is showing signs of tiredness - I expect thats because she doesn't get enough sleep at night!)

1.00 in cot for nap

3.00 awake

3.15 bf

3.30 dinner (puree)

4.45 wind down

5.00 cot for a nap

6.00 bf

6.15 bath

6.45 story

7.00 in cot for sleep time

10.00/10.30 df (sometimes she wakes for this at 9.30, seems to depend on how she has taken to the puree in the day - early days of weaning!)


Most of the time she goes down very well for day time naps, but still stirs after 45 minutes and I need to ssh/pat. I keep ssh/patting until the 2 hours has run out.

[anna*]

The fact that she can stay asleep after losing the dummy isn't really relevant - it's whether she can get BACK to sleep without it! Does she lose the dummy for her naps and get a replug when you start shush-patting?

When you remove the dummy you use shush-pat and PUPD if necessary. It is a horrible few days but then it is done.

[rachgosden]

sounds like that is what is happening. I had thought that she was ok with the dummy because she can sometimes sleep for several hours at a time (and therefore hit the period of light sleep and manage to stay asleep rather than wake up as she has no dummy...) but what you're saying makes sense... i will give it a go and see what  happens.  Thanks again for your help"

[rachgosden]

she does lose dummy at naps and when she wakes up after 45 mins i replug....