EASY tweak or 2-1 trans or OT/UT cycle, pls help!!

[jackman]

Sorry - I just realized the answer to my own question about A times for the rest of the day if DS falls asleep on way to preschool based on your answer to my question about short naps. I'm out of it due to cold and stressed because of this OT/UT cycle.

I guess what I should really ask is do I shorten the pm nap if we think that yesterday was too much DT sleep? If yes, by how much? Or do I let him sleep for 1.5hrs (hoping he does) due to EW? and if that is successful go 3-3.25hrs for A time to BT?

Thanks.

[jackman]

We had one heck of a day! DS fell asleep on way to preschool drop off, slept for 30 min. Took another nap nearly 3hrs later and I had to wake him after an hr so I could pick up DD. That was around 12:15pm. It is now 6pm and DS is still going. Complete refusal of any type of nap 3.5hrs after waking him at 12:15pm. Complete refusal of going to bed at 5:30pm. I am about to go mad and on the verge of just screaming as I know DS has to be sooooo OT.

His routine has been completely disrupted today and the worst part is I need to find a good routine that will ensure naps and easy BT now that DD is at preschool.

I'm bracing for a bad night...

[empowered mama]

hugs hun - I really know how frustrating it can be.  Hang in there!

A good solid nap is considered anywhere between 1.5 and 2 hrs.  It really is sounding to me like your LO is OT - perhaps has built up somehow over the past few days. 

For now, I would encourage to you to just let your LO sleep 2 good naps of 1.5 hrs to get him caught up and hopefully then we can tweak.  Especially if there are teeth in play - it is so hard to play with the routine during teething.  Maybe try to shoot for 3 hrs day sleep and see if he settles to bed easily.  If not, we'll take a look again at the routine and see where to adjust.

It will get better!

[jackman]

Just want to give an update from last night. Thanks empowered mama for easing my nerves!

DS woke at 5:30am and we had 2 NWs (obviously from the OT). I went to get him around 6am but he was still so tired and definitely crabby. His first nap was at 9:45am and was 1.5hrs (woke on his own). Second nap was at 2:10pm and he slept for 1hr20min (again woke on his own). DS seemed to get less grumpy as the day progressed, but I know he is still OT. BT was after 3hr40min A time but we stayed in his room starting around 3.5hr in case he would fall asleep. It seems that DS prefers a long A time to BT, but that is most likely due to a good solid second nap?

I will continue to allow DS to recover from the last few days of OT and will let you know how tomorrow goes. Still giving meds for the teeth altho nothing has popped thru.

Thanks.

[jackman]

DS STTN, but we were up at 4:50am. I APOP'd for 40 min, but once it was 5:30am DS was up for the day. He looks tired, but is playing with his toys and crawling around. Usually he is super cranky and just wants to be held until his first nap.

I'm a little worried today as I have to drop DD at preschool this morning. I'm certain DS will fall asleep as he did on Wednesday at 8am. I'm just not certain what I can do to ensure we don't have an outcome that was similar to Wednesdays - where DS will fall asleep for his 2nd nap at 11:15 and I will have to wake DS to pick up DD. Followed by a marathon A time until BT ending in OT.

I hope we can tweak somewhere soon so the EWs disappear and it will get easier to drop off DD at preschool.

Any suggestions at least for today? Thx.

[empowered mama]

That's a tough thing, to manage the naps and the preschool schedule.  Is there anyway you can push him until 9 at least?  Or does he fall asleep in the car?

You might also try to extend the 2nd A time and get him to wait until you get home from picking up DD to give the 2nd nap.  Still a long A time, but perhaps he might prefer a longer middle A to a longer last A?  Just a thought...

[jackman]

Update:
Ugh, yesterday was difficult but I managed to get DS to take 3 naps.
Nap #1 -  was at 8:10am on way to drop off DD at preschool. 30 min.
Nap #2 - I did as you suggested, kept DS up until after pick up of DD from preschool, but he was sooo tired after an A time of 4hrs, he fell asleep on way back around 12:30pm and slept for 40min.
I knew I needed to get DS down for another nap before BT as he would be so OT. So I targeted an A time of 3hrs after DS' last nap and he went down at 3:10pm (3hrs10min). I was planning to let DS sleep for an hour, but he woke on his own around 4:00pm.

For BT, I kept your A times that you suggested in mind as well as the rule of thumb for shortening and started the BT routine after an A time of 3hrs in case DS would fall asleep. He was asleep at 7:30, so A time was around 3.5hrs.

DS STTN but was up at 4:30am today and I let him be hoping he would self settle. 5am he screamed and I decided to try something just to see - I gave him a bottle, he drank it and went back to sleep at 5:30am and woke again at 6:50am. I know, this is a bad habit to introduce as I worked so hard to eliminate the night feedings, but I'm not sure what else to do as DS isn't getting enough sleep at night and he is so cranky in the mornings.

Thoughts?

[jackman]

P.S. Forgot to mention that this week, DS learned how to sit and pull himself up. I've been trying to let him practice as much as he can during his A time.

So could these EWs be due to milestones or I need to tweak his EASY?

[empowered mama]

Hmm....my guess for the EW would be OT vs. milestones, but it could play a small factor I suppose.  We personally have had EWs for the past 5 months and I always feed and back to sleep, otherwise we will start our day far too early.  You are right, that it might be a bad habit to introduce, but you must weigh your options - whether you want to start your day at that hour, sleep train through it, or just feed and back to sleep.  For us, the latter has been the best way we can cope with the rest of the day.

I'm sure it's really tough to manage those naps around your DD's schedule - if you continue to have a hard time, I can get some more eyes on here to see if there are suggestions to get around that.

[jackman]

Hi empowered mama
Just wanted to give you an update. We still have our EWs and times range from 4-5:30am. I have decided to offer the bottle and hope that DS will fall back to sleep for a bit longer to make our days a bit more manageable. Half of the time it works and those days that it doesn't, we start our day. UGH!

I have been following your suggested A times to help manage OT and the last few days, DS has been settling easier for BT. We went to the doc on Monday for DS' 9mo check up and he is getting his top left tooth and it is pushing thru. I'm hoping once it breaks that the EWs stop or do you think that my DS is just used to sleeping 10hrs at night and 2-2.5hrs during the day? Meaning, will I eventually have to push out the day later and later so that it becomes more reasonable? The last few days our EASY has been this:

4:30am-5:30am Wake up, give bottle and hope he falls back to sleep
7:00am Breakfast
9:00am Bottle
9:30am Nap #1 (usually 1.5hrs)
11:30pm Lunch
1:30pm Bottle
2:20pm Nap #2 (usually 1hr, either I wake him or he wakes himself)
4:30pm Dinner
6:00 Bedtime routine bath, teeth meds and bottle
6:40-6:45pm Falls asleep

The last couple of nights we have had no NWs just some restlessness and phantom cries. However this evening, 15 min after BT DS cried out for me and he settled quickly after letting him know that all was ok and it was night night time. DS continued to mantra cry for 10 min and fell back to sleep on his own. I'm wondering if his NW was caused by him waking 40 min into his naps today? Both naps were this way, but I was able to extend (1.5hrs for nap #1 and 1hr for nap #2). Also, what could have been the reason for DS to wake 40min after a nap? UT? I have a hard time believing UT since nap #1 was 4hrs after WU. Or could it have been that DS was OT? Sorry for the questions again, still trying to figure things out.

Overall, do you still think it is teeth and OT? If yes, is there anything I can do so stop the OT madness? OR do you think our EASY eventually will need to be pushed out?

TIA

[empowered mama]

Hi Jackman,

Honestly, the routine looks pretty good so my best guess here would be teething.  Often it can disrupt naps, NWs and EWs.  Have you been medicating at all?

I'm going to see if we can get some more eyes on your routine, just in case there may be something we can tweak.  You are doing a great job though, so hang in there!

[Jiinx]

hi there Jackman,
 Forgive me, I haven't read the entire thread but I really do think it's teething related just based on the fact that he's getting them! Have you tried dream medicating? teeth do move more for babies at night. I've also had a baby that waked up early due to teething...

I think his A times and naps are appropriate for his age.

Have you taken a look at this thread?
http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=95670.0

When my lo was ready for increase in A she would: 1) wake up early and be singing bc she was really ready to start the day; and 2) wake up early from her naps - so her first one would get shorter and be around 1 hour and 10 minutes..and her second A time would get very very long and wake up early from the naps...

Are these his first teeth?

[jackman]

Hi Empowered Mama and Jiinx,
Thank you for taking a look at our latest EASY. I just wish these darn teeth would show themselves!! This will be DS' third tooth and I truly don't remember his first two causing so much trouble. I guess DS is going thru so many changes at once, perhaps they are all contributing to the EWs (which have been around for nearly a month). It just gets tiring.

I have read the link you provided about sleep going wonky at 10-11 months and in the beginning I was wondering if DS was ready for the 2-1 trans or at least starting, but he is just so young. There are some nights where he will be awake for 2-3hrs, which made me think he was ready for more A time or cutting back on amount of DT sleep. Perhaps it was just OT?

I have a very hard time curbing the OT and it seems that every 3rd night we have NWs with the EW. DS gets caught up on sleep and then he'll STTN for 2 nights, but with EW. Empowered mama has helped me the last week to shoot for the right A times, but I'm still trying to get it right.

Yesterday was NWs (2-3, I'm assuming he was OT from the 2 previous EWs and I had to extend both naps at the 40 min mark) with an EW at 4:30am. By 5:30am, DS fell back to sleep after lengthy PD session (he is learning to pull himself up in his crib). He then woke at 7am and I just tweaked our routine a bit, but for the most part his naps were around the same times as if we started our day at 5:30am. DS woke after 30 min during nap#1 (A time was 2hr50min)- I was able to extend and he woke after 1hr25min. Nap #2 he went down at 2:15pm (A time of 3hrs) and is still asleep. I'm afraid to let DS sleep 3hrs in a day as when I have done this in the past, we have the playfest at night. So this is my dilemma and I think what causes OT as I cap the afternoon nap to 1 hr. Then I shoot for a BT at least 3hrs after second nap, but DS doesn't always go for it which just make him more OT by the time he finally falls asleep.

I guess I will roll with it and see how things go for a couple of more days. Just hope we get over this hump soon. Thanks again.

[empowered mama]

Jackman, have you tried the short AM/long PM routine?  Not sure if it will be of any help, but it could be worth a shot to try something new??

[jackman]

Hi Empowered Mama
Yes I have tried the short am (1hr nap) and long pm (woke him after 1.5hrs). Doesn't seem to make a difference with the EWs. But perhaps I should give it a try again and stick with it for a week to see if it makes a difference?

I feel like I have tried just about everything. Perhaps you and Jiinx are right and I just need to see about these teeth breaking thru?