EASY tweak or 2-1 trans or OT/UT cycle, pls help!!

[jackman]

Hi Sarah
Thanks for replying. I did think we were teething for some time too. In fact right before he got his chest cold I thought I had saw some white spots on the top way in the back. I thought it was his first year's molars, but nothing popped out. Maybe those things take a long time as well similar to the top four teeth? Oh gosh I hope not.

Anyway, morning wake ups are so hit and miss these days. If he has had a fitfull night then he is really cranky. If I extend his second A time, what do you suggest? Right now it ranges anywhere from 3hrs30min to 3hrs50min. Do I push DS to 4hrs and see what it gets us? Do I still limit his 2nd nap to 45min if the first nap is 1.5hrs? I suppose I don't really object to the late BT, just seems to be a long day. And as long as DS sleeps 11.5hrs a night too, but we don't always get that.

[huntersmummyinoz]

m@rking, will try and pop over to help as requested when i have more time this weekend (2-1 dramas + teeth here = no fun for anyone!!) 

[Jiinx]

Hi there, maybe next extend the second A and keep bedtime the same?

How was last night?

[jackman]

Hi Sarah
Well yesterday was a bit unusual. I let DS sleep as long as he wanted for his first nap and it ended up being 2.5hrs. I truly contemplated only doing 1 nap and a really early BT, but after an afternoon at the Children's Museum with his sister, DS fell asleep on the way home. I only let him sleep 30min for his second nap as he was already at 3hrs total DT sleep. Since DS usually likes 3hrs40min or so for his last A time, I decided to shoot for 3hrs until BT after the 30 min nap, but he went nearly 4hrs. So again we had a 14hr day and this is the kicker - he STTN! Didn't hear a peep from him until 6am which is an EW since it was less than 10hrs sleep. I ended up giving him some meds last night just to see if his teeth were an issue and now I'm starting to wonder as we didn't hear any phantom cries.

I would love to keep BT the same, just wish I knew what that time is because it has been all over the place. In the past it was 6:45-7:00pm and lately it's been between 7-8.

What do you think would be best for today?
- do like I did yesterday? Let DS sleep as long as he would like for his am nap. Stretch the second A and then cap the pm nap to 30 min? BT would be nearly 4hrs after pm nap.
- or keep am nap to 1.5hrs. Stretch the second A time and cap pm nap to 45min like the past? Last A is still nearly 4hrs.
- keep am nap to 1.5hrs. Stretch second A time and cap pm nap to 30min. Maybe then last A would be 3-3.5hrs?

One last q - once we do move to 1 nap, how long can you let your lo sleep to avoid robbing from night sleep? Since I know DS should only sleep a total of 2-2hrs10min during the day to avoid NWs (although last night disproves my theory), is it the same when we move to 1 nap or can you let them sleep longer since it is the only nap and their A times are longer than usual?

[Jiinx]

Hi there!
 Yay for the great night! that's fantastic.

Well yesterday was a bit unusual. I let DS sleep as long as he wanted for his first nap and it ended up being 2.5hrs. I

Hmm I'm wondering if he's gotten in a UT/OT loop? Perhaps he tacked on the sleep that he missed from his night to his day? regardless, that's a great nap. How is his night going? Did he go to sleep okay? Sorry i didn't respond earlier..my dd is throwing me for a loop..

I'm not sure what to suggest as this was the first day and I don't know what the night will bring. Your second and third option would be what I would do. 3 hours is a typical amount of sleep at this age, but if he's able to handle 4 hours then I would start so suspect it's starting to get less.

When they move to one nap, it's usually the same amount of sleep that they need. My lo, on some days, got 3 hours and I still did the same bedtime. It's about the same as they did when they were younger just combined now...anything more 3 hours would start to rob them of their night sleep.

[huntersmummyinoz]

hi hun, have finally had a quick look. i'm wondering if you am nap is too early causing ew. when the am nap is the short one it isnt such an issue but to keep ew at bay with a long am/short pm nap, then that first A time must be long enuf, often the longest one of the day. if it was me... i would add 10/15mins first A time, let him sleep up to 2hrs, and then a 30min catnap that afternoon. if he is still lasting 4hrs on a 30min catnap then i would cut it to 20 mins to try and keep an earlier bedtime/closer to 11hrs night sleep. once the catnap is less than one full sleep cycle (ie. less than 45mins) then theory is they should be tired earlier than usual A times. K is sometimes doing just 2hrs A time after a 20 min catnap atm.

my other reason for pushing first A time out is that he is closer to 12mths now and he needs to be able to handle a long A time first up to get to one nap.

ps. i thought i'd answer your Qs here rather than pm so advice is all in one spot for you

[jackman]

Thank you for the replies ladies!

Sarah - I have been reading your post about your DD. Sorry that she is giving you a hard time after your trip to Hawaii. Since I knew you were having probs, I sent a PM to Kirry for her ideas as well.  Hope you don't mind. I think you might be right that DS is caught in an OT/UT loop. He is always so prone to those. We've been dealing with them since he was little. I stretched his second A time yesterday to 4hrs and capped his pm nap to 45min. He went to bed after 3hrs15min, so it helped with BT, but I think it should have been shorter as we had loads of NWs (OT). I was at DD's school last night so DH missed DS' sleepy cues. DS only lasted 3hrs this morn and I think I'll just let him sleep as long as he wants for both naps today to catch up. However how do we get out of this loop? It seems whenever I try to cap naps, after a few days DS enters into the OT/UT loop. Ideas anyone?

Kirry - I will definitely try your strategy once I can get DS out of our OT/UT mess. Thanks so much. 

[Jiinx]

Hum..well I've been learning a bit with my lo ..I was trying to catch her up, but she ended up getting mad bc she wasn't ready for sleep.

the best bet as they get older is to stay on track as much as possible. I would agree with pp, and just increase his first A...see what that results in and work from there. How was the rest of his day? Sometimes, they like to tack on sleep from their night to their naps..and putting them to sleep earlier on days they wake up early can help combat OT. Is that what happened with Jack? If he gets more sleep during this nap, chances are he may need a bit more A.

[jackman]

Thanks for the tip Sarah. Jack woke after 1hr20min this morning. We did an A time of 4hrs10min and I woke him after 45min. Hoping to get him to bed and asleep by 7, so his last A time will be 2hrs45min. He is definitely cranky when I wake him from the second nap.

I'll let you know how night sleep goes. FX for a good night.

[huntersmummyinoz]

1hr20 naps are tricky, can be OT or UT. how does he wake after this nap? (crying, cranky, happy, babbling) does he handle the following A time really well and happy or act tired, cranky, fall apart?

[jackman]

Kirry - I think the 1hr20min naps are UT as he wakes pretty happy and can handle the long A time until his second nap. So today I went for nearly 4hrs for J's first A time and I'll let him sleep as long as he wants. Then follow with a short pm nap with short A time to BT. I know you do set BT, how does that work? Does your lo ever fight BT? Or when you say set BT, you put lo in his cot at a certain time or is set BT when lo falls asleep?

So yesterday ended with 3hr A time and we had a few NWs. I think OT still, but each NW took very little for him to resettle. No EWs. Hopefully naps go well today with the longer first A time and a short pm nap.

[Jiinx]

It sound like UT, Oanh.

I think you're on the right track. I had similar first naps as you..just did a long second A, followed by 35-40 minute nap and then 3.5 hours before bed. However, 3.5 is long for some babies..mine can handle it.

The fact that Jack settled right away sounds very promising. Maybe give it a couple of days with the new routine? Where do you think he's getting OT from?

When I would put my lo down when she was younger and she wasn't ready..she would just tumble around and get comfortable, talk etc. for 10-20 minutes until she was ready for sleep.

[jackman]

Hi Sarah,
Hope you are doing well and your lo is getting back on track. Jack's first nap ended up being 1hr30min after 4hr A time, so I think this is where we should be to avoid a UT nap? He went 3h30min before his second nap and I woke him after 45 min. Once again, CRANKY!! I don't think J could handle 3hr30min after a short nap and longer A's, but he has surprised me in the past.

J is a pretty good independent sleeper since I weaned him from his nightfeedings. He basically does the same as your lo, rolls around for 10-20min in his cot if he isn't ready for sleeping. I'll stick with this for a few days and hope that the NWs settle. If not, I'll be back! Hope that is ok.

Thanks. 

[Jiinx]

of course it is.. We're here to help. I know how frustrating it can be.

Okay, so if he was cranky..then a short A time to bed may be the best bet and see how he does at night. Do you think he needs a 1.5 hour nap and a 1 hour nap? You mentioned if he gets more than 2 hours and 15 minutes, he has a lot of NWs?

My lo is trucking along..a few bumps along the way but better than a week ago Thank you for asking.

[jackman]

In the past, if J sleeps more than 2-2:15 during the day we'll get long NWs. But now that we are doing longer A times, maybe not? Should I just stick with this for a few days and see? If I still get OT NWs, then let him sleep an hour?

I've just put him in his cot, so FX'd that he'll drift off soon (might end up being 3hrs A time).