Need advice for 20 month old with sleep issues

[uropachild]

Hi ladies! I used to requent these forums quite a bit when DD was a younger pup, but since she turned a year old and went onto one nap i haven't been back as much.

I just would like to find out if she is having the right amount of sleep for her age and if anyone has any suggestions about her routine. I will of course go and have a look about and read the FAQ's etc., but thought i should post in the meantime.

As i type she is screaming at me from her cot because today she thought that 30 minutes was enough of a nap. I have been going in and laying her back down without cuddling at increasing intervals for the past 40 minutes. The next time i go up i will just get her up, although i hate to "give in" like this. Last time i went up it was genuine crying with tears and everything rather than just shouting.

Here's what our day looks like at the moment:

6-6.15am ~ Wake and cry ~ I try going in and laying her down to get to at least 6.30, maybe 7am, but all she does is cry. She might have an additional 10 minutes sometimes, but can never be sure if this is her sleeping or just being quiet. If i push the issue and make her stay in her cot until 7am she pretty much just cries the whole time.

12.15 - 1pm ~ Nap ~ She usually goes down great, but wakes up early. Most days she has about 45 mins - 1 hour. 1.5 hours is really lucky and unusual and sometimes - like today- she wakes after 30 minutes.

7 - 7.15pm ~ In bed. She usually goes down okay, but often wakes up after a couple of hours. She usually wakes at some point in the night too and needs to be laid back down to sleep. Sometimes 2-3 times.


The reason i have left things this long was mainly because we just let ourselves get into a funk with it. She has woken in the night for months and months and previously we picked her up to cuddle her and lay her back down. We decided to stop this recently (last few days) and she is still waking.

I thought she was maybe waking early on a morning because of the light mornings, but i noticed the last couple of days that when i go in there at 6am it's still dark, so that can't be it!

We have a new baby making an appearance sometime in the next 4-5 weeks, so i could really do with getting this sorted out before then.

Thanks for reading!

[katie80]

Hi Sarah,
It sounds to me like she might be a little OT.  Is she getting any teeth?  The shorter naps and morning wakings crying are common traits for my DD when she's teething/slightly OT.

Have you tried doing an earlier nap at about 11:30 or 11:45 am instead?  Sometimes the slightly earlier time helps my DD sleep longer.  Also, her afternoon A time is quite long after a short nap, and is most likely contributing to the NWs and EWs.  You might try a bedtime of about 6:30 pm for a few days up to a week and see if that helps her sleep better at night.  And include meds if she is teething.

I don't think you are 'giving in' to her on the nap, TBH.  It's been a long, long time since I've been able to re-settle my DD and extend her naps, esp if she's OT; she just fights and fights it more.  Has she ever responded to you lengthening her nap?

Also, you mentioned that during NWs you used to go in to her and give her a cuddle and lay her back down, but now are not doing that.  What are you currently doing?  I don't think a quick cuddle and laying her back down will contribute to that as long as she falls back to sleep on her own.

[babybarr]

I also would do an earlier bedtime if she is only sleeping 45mins- 1hr

My DS is also a short napper and we have him in bed at around 5.5hrs A time. 

[uropachild]

Thanks so much for both of your help!

She has been getting her 4 canine teeth for a while now and her molars are not all through, so it is entirely possible that the disturbances are due to teething.

She is at nursery tomorrow, so i will see what kind of nap she had there and try to make her bedtime fit. Then if she wakes early on Thursday i can give her an early nap. She was in bed by 6.15pm tonight due to the short nap. She was ready too!!

When i would go in and cuddle her and lay her back down she would be far more likely to go back to sleep. In fact i would regularly extend her naps that way. I realise that it's nothing major to have to go in and cuddle her, in fact, it's quite cozy! I just thought it was too much of a prop and stopped her from learning how to go back to sleep on her own. Plus, i think that sometimes she would wake and cry for the cuddle. It's nice, but if she's still crying for cuddles in the middle of the night wen new baby is here, it's just making more work i think.

Instead of cuddling i am getting down to her level and gently but firmly saying to her that it's still nap time or still night time while stroking her hair and face. Then i just take her by holding her underarms/sides and laying her back down. Most times she squirms back up right away, but rather than let her get up i hold her down. That sounds awful doesn't it? Should i maybe not do that? I did think i shouldn't, but then i would be stood there for ages just laying her back down and down and down. Once she has settled i say my usual naptime/bedtime thing when i'm leaving her and i walk out.

Tonight she cried once a minute or two after i'd come out of her room. I went in and did the same as above only she didn't need holding. She was quiet after that.

I've read about the wi/wo method, so now i know about that i will use it instead of the kind of controlled crying type of thing i'd been doing before. She should be fine with it since she was used to being sleep trained when she was smaller and it's not like we've used the cc often since the cuddling used to work instead.

The OT does make sence. I read some of the sample routines on here and it does read like she's not getting enough hours of sleep in the day. It could be that she just doesn't need that much of course, but her behaviour etc. tells me it's OT.

Thanks again for your input.

[babybarr]

I wouldn't hold I would just do the wiwo and tell her to lay down.  You may have to go in lots but listen to her cry and decide if you think it's actually a I need you cry and if so go in tell to lay down then leave repeat as necessary.  TBH though I think if you can get some more sleep into her that'll probably help.

[katie80]

I agree with Laura; more sleep will probably help.  But, the teeth are probably part of the problem too.  My DD is finishing canines and cutting two molars and it does throw things off.  Have you tried meds before nap and/or bed time?

I also agee with not holding her down.  Either go with WIWO and tell her to lie down with your sleep phrase, or stand by her as you've been doing but just use your words and periodically, in a monotone voice, tell her to lie down.  It may take awhile the first few times, but it should get shorter rather quickly I would think.

[uropachild]

Thanks again.

Last night she was in bed by 6.15pm like i said. She woke once almost immediately afterwards and i went in and laid her down. Then she woke again at 10pm three times, which is pretty usual for her. DH went in and laid her down the first couple of times and i went in the third time. Because i'd had her out of the cot to check her nappy though and because i was on my way out the door to go to the hospital and mum was here i gave her a cuddle before i put her down. She didn't wake again after that.

Then this morning she woke me at 6.45am!!! That's the latest it's been in ages!! Now i just have to see what time she's slept while at nursery today and work her bedtime around that when she gets home.

So a question about the wi/wo - when you say i should tell her to lay down do you mean that i shouldn't be touching her really. I mean, shouldn't be laying her down myself? Should i just tell her to lay down?

[babybarr]

Just tell her to lay down rather than touch her, if she appears to be "stuck" standing the I would say it's ok to lay her down, but I think give her the opportunity to do it for herself.

[katie80]

Nice wake up!  That's good news!

Yes, just tell her to lie down.  You could pat the mattress and show her what you want her to do, but have her do it herself. 

[uropachild]

Okay dokay, thanks girls.

Yesterday she had an hour and a half nap at nursery, but it was quite late and she didn't wake up until 2.30pm. We put her in bed by just after 7pm, which i know isn't 5 hours of A time, but figured she would be pretty tired. She went off to sleep okay, but woke up once or twice in the early hours. I went in to her and laid her back down again (it was before i'd read your clarifications, but know where i'm at now).

This morning she was awake just before 6am. I went in and laid her back down again around 6 or 7 times over the course of the hour and finally got her up for the day just before 7am, but she's had negligable amounts of sleep in that hour.

So, my plan today is to have my mum give her lunch at 11am and get her into her cot for a nap at 11.30. I'm at the midwife at 10.30, so mum will have to do this for me. She was chewing on her fingers this morning, so i'll ask mum to give her some Calpol before her nap aswell.

When you think they're teething do you medicate before every nap and bedtime? Is this okay? I get a bit worried about over-medicating and my DH is even more hesitatant to give anything.

Thanks again for your continued help with this.

[uropachild]

I've just ordered a timer for her bedroom lamp. I figured it was worth a shot, especially with the clocks going back soon. The support thread was pretty encouraging about them.

[uropachild]

Sorry to keep bumping my own thread, it just helps me to keep a record to refer to so i can keep track of any progress.

She had lunch at 11am and went to bed at 11.40. That was ten minutes later than i'd planned but she was a bit excited with having nana round so took a bit to calm down. It's been almost an hour now, so fingers crossed.

ETA: Her nap lasted 1 hour 10 minutes, so not really long enough. She's clearly morngy this afternoon as well. It's a right chuffing task just trying to prepare tea she's so whiney and clingy.

Bedtime will be at 6.20pm, making 5.5 hours of A time. The only reason i'm even keeping her up that long is because dinner won't be ready until 5.15 since that's when DH gets home. If i can get her in sooner, i will.

[katie80]

It really does sound like the teeth are bothering her.  We've had several days so similar!  I'm sure this is too late, and I totally understand your time restrictions, but if you could get an earlier bedtime (say 6ish), I'd try it. 

In terms of the teeth, I give Tylenol (acetaminophen) before nap and Motirn (ibuprofen) before bed.  If it seems like they're really bothering DD, I'll do this for up to 5-7 days straight and then take a few days off.  I've been assured this is safe dosing, as I'm giving only one dose of each per day.  I'm like you and struggle with it as I don't want to over-medicate, but I also feel DD needs some relief as I know they are hurting her.  It's a tough balance; you need to do what you're comfortable with!

[babybarr]

I like Katie's approach to the meds.  Def worth doing that for a good few days.

However - you said she slept from just after 7pm - 6am (I know she woke briefly) but that's a pretty good night.  TBH I think at 20mths really the max you'd get at night is 11.5hrs and if she's settling well then you're def on the right track.

[uropachild]

Well last night was a bit kaput. She went to bed lovely at 6.30, but woke at 11pm to throw up. Then we were up for the next hour or two with her barfing every 20-30 minutes. Poor baby!

On the bright side it must have tired her out so much because she woke us at 7.10am!!

This does mean that she can nap at a later time of 12.10, which is progress. If all goes well and she has an hour and a half ::hoping:: then bedtime will be at 7.10 and we will definitely be getting there!!

Eventually i would like to have her going to bed at 7.30pm and waking at 7am. I know this is a lot of sleep in the night, but i really don't think she will ever get up to napping for two hours in the day, so with her reduced daytime sleep it should be about right.

Then new baby will be here before we know it and REALLY upset the apple cart!!! :lol: