Teeth brushing - we are dong the pin him down and force it method.....

[Mashi]

I spent 5 hours last night going through the forum for teeth brushing threads and can't find any tips that we have not tried that actually work.  Hoping maybe someone has some new ones lately

For about the past 6-8 weeks or so (ha! just like every other issue we are dealing with!!!) DS is refusing to have his teeth brushed. At first we were letting him do it to at least get it "done" but his teeth were not getting cleaned at all doing it his way so we have had to take over the job. We offer to let him do it first and then us do it second but he's against it.  As soon as the word "mouth" or "teeth" or "toothbrush" is uttered he screams his head off and runs somewhere to hide. He clamps his mouth shut, bites is hands, pushes, thrashes, scratches at us, pounds the walls, throws things around the room, etc.  It has been a good month or so of pinning him down, holding his arms by the wrists so he can't slap me and taking advantage of fact that because he is screaming his head off and crying his eyes out it means his mouth is open and scrubbing them while he literally FREAKS out.

I agree with the idea of "pick your battles" but for me this is basic hygiene and teeth must be brushed three times a day. It is 100% non-negotiable.  But this battle three times a day, 30 minutes each time, has gone beyond stupid.  I get so riled up that today after going through it all I have yelled at him, told him I have had it with this teeth brushing BS and stuck him in his cot crying his eyes out and pulled his bedroom door closed. We were supposed to meet friends 30 minutes ago but it took me nearly AN HOUR to brush his teeth so we are still at home. 

I can't keep going through this, for me OR him, but teeth need to be brushed. I need BTDT support!!!

PS - stickers, rewards, timers, distraction, two toothbrushes, him doing mine -- done it all.  Some of them worked for a day, some of them for a couple of days, and one of them got me a bloody nose. 

Please, I need survival tactics!

[squeakersmum]

Oh poor you.  Must be a truly harrowing experience for you both.

OK - when he does it himself does he put the brush in his mouth and chew at all?

Just thinking what works for us (although we had some refusal, never as bad as you have).  Here the key is independence so when DH brushes his own teeth in the morning he puts the tiniest smear of toothpaste on DSs toothbrush and lets him get on with it (he generally gets given a bit of shaving foam to smear all over the bathroom too ) so he is just like daddy.  Then after breakfast and DH has left for work I take him to get him dressed and we brush our teeth so I have my brush, I put paste on his and have 'my turn' to brush his teeth.  I do it first and then he gets his turn while I brush mine.

In the evening DH does bath time and usually gives him his brush while he's getting him dressed and I do bed time and again brush my teeth at the same time as we do his.

So he gets them brushed twice a day properly but I've only ever brushed mine morning and night.

Maybe let him do it totally himself for a few days to try and get over the negative association?
Ben knows that he gets to have a go after I have had my turn when we do it and likes putting the brush under the water and turning the taps on and off etc so I think he puts up with me insisting I have a go in order to get to the good bit!

[clazzat]

My dentist friend told me that at this age it is more about making it part of the routine and getting flouride into their mouths than scrubbing their teeth, so we give the girls their toothbrushes with toothpaste on to chew for a bit, and then we do a quick brush once they have finished, but I never force it if they are resisting - so they "clean" their teeth twice a day, but I generally only brush them once a day for them.  Perhaps if you could explain to mini-Mashi that he gets to clean them in the morning and at lunchtime but Mummy has to do it at night he might resist a bit less?

[clazzat]

Another thing which I have just thought of - could he chose a really special toothbrush that you use to brush his teeth?  So he uses a boring one when it is his turn, but if he lets you do it, it can be a really fun toothbrush.

[KathrynK]

Mashi- have you tried an electric toothbrush? Sophie loved her "buzzy brush" at this age xx

[emz1907]

Listening in for tips as we have similar problems. Im so concious that ds doesn't get a good scrub on his teeth and only allows me minimal time to do it for him before freaking out so it's good to read that it's the flouride that's important and not just the scrubbing. We sort of get by these days by a few tricks, I tell him we have to get all the pasta/banana/cheese or whatever he's had to eat off his teeth (this is just for bedtime brushes really) and he seems keen then like he must imagine his teeth are covered in food and starts naming food he's eaten that day. He has special ben10 toothpaste which is green gel and I make a big deal of 'oooh it's time to put special ben10 slime on our teeth yay' LOL. Luckily he also saw an episode of Special Agent Oso where he helped a girl brush her teeth and I'll remind him to 'do it like Oso says and make circles'. He does tend to chew more than brush though, if he does happen to let me have a brush and opens his mouth well I make a massive fuss of how well he had done.

[Mashi]

We have tried all of those things - him getting a turn, then me taking my turn...that worked 6 months ago with no problems and there were no fights, but he's decided that's just not fun anymore. He might understand the things I tell him about getting his teeth cleaned, letting me have a turn, etc but he doesn't care!! 

When he was younger we took the approach that he could chew on the brush and that was enough, but now that he's eating an "adult" diet (Ha, when he eats that is!!!), it's not good enough as there is food stuck in the surfaces and the gums and it does need a decent brush to get them out especially his back molars...his lower teeth are a bit gappy and food gets caught between them - my sister (a dentist) and our dentist are both strongly encouraging me to start flossing as that is also important at a young age, which I can't imagine attempting, I'll probably lose a finger!!

Mashi- have you tried an electric toothbrush? Sophie loved her "buzzy brush" at this age xx

That is one thing I meant to ask - if anyone has had any luck with an electric at this age or if it's too young. He will either like it or it will terrify him - they are expensive here (80 ish Euros, but all three of us would use it) - so I don't want to spend that kind of money if it's not going to make anything any easier for him!  How old was Sophie when she was okay with using an electric one?

Emma we saw that Oso episode as well, DS totally freaked and turned it off

ARGHHHHH life was great until the day he turned 2 and it is like something totally clicked in him and he's Mr Difficult now!!!!!

[emz1907]

You've probably thought of this too but what about finding a little book about brushing teeth or maybe other shows have teeth brushing in them? I've seen a few clips of kids brushing their teeth on programmes but can't for the life of me think of them now, but may help him see other kids doing it so he doesn't feel singled out? Thing is in his head it's built up into this massive deal and he must get anxious of the drama that's about to play out as soon as you mention it to him, Im trying to think of ways to be more casual about it without stepping back too much and allowing him to not brush kwim? hmmm will have to think....

[Mashi]

Yes Emma that is what we are trying. We did back off for a while - a good week or so where his teeth hardly got cleaned, and slowly built up again, and his tantrums built up with it.  Let me know if you come up with any ideas!

[LucySol]

i am out of ideas Mash cos i have the same problem and i have to pin D down to.i hold her cradled in my arms,she screams and i brush quick!! i know that doesnt give you any ideas but just letting you know its a battle here too!!

[emz1907]

NO idea if this would help but there are a ton of books on Amazon that he may read? (see customers also bought section for loads more...)

http://www.amazon.com/Sesame-Street-Ready-Set-Brush/dp/0794414451/ref=pd_sim_b_1

[MLK]

The only thing that worked with DS1 was showing him pics of black rotten teeth and telling him that's what would happen if you don't brush your teeth. He was 3 though, he got his first tooth at 16 months, so around 18months to 2 years of no proper brushing? I took him for his first check-up at 6.5 because he was complaining of sore teeth but they are fine, no cavities. It is his 6 year old molars coming through  that are hurting.


DS2 - we let him 'brush' by himself first, he always asks for more toothpaste and lately I've been telling him he can only have some more if he lets me brush his teeth. I have to go really gently (esp with the 2 yo molars coming through) so not a good brush, but after what happened with DS1 and his teeth I'm trying not too stress too much!

[my3girlsjde]

I can vouch that the battery powered toothbrush CHANGED EVERYTHING
They were big chompers and weren't fans at all of us getting involved, but they had a facination with ours so we bought them each one with their favourite character on it. If you could find a battery operated one for now, they're not as good as the expensive electic ones, you may get ovet the hump and get him back into it.
They also love to do abything in the bathroom, wash hands, sit on the toilet etc that they see us do so they get to do whatever they want in there and we incorporate toothbrushing into it. We also took the stance that the new toothbrush is a priveledge and a "guess what you get to do!" stance.
If you can get a cheap one (quality doesn't matter for now) use it as a stepping stone. We have a special mouthwash safe for kids here that highlights the germs on teeth and then they get to brush it off. Perhaps this could be a game?
 

[Mashi]

Lucy thanks for piping in - I think my DS and Daisy are going through a lot of similar things at the moment so at least I know it's not "me" here!!!  I could try some story books...we were looking at a lift-the-flap book at the library a few weeks ago (his favourite type of book, he goes nuts for them) and one of the pages had a little boy in the bathroom and you opened the flap to the medicine chest and there was his toothbrush, you could take it out on a string and use the cardboard toothbrush to brush his teeth, if you can picture what I mean. Anyway DS picked the book, so I had no idea what the pages would be (ie/ so it was not me using it to encourage him iyswim) and when we got to the toothbrush page he threw it across the floor   He's being SUCH a determined, my-way-or-else 2 year old these days isn't he!?!!!

Vicki I will have at look at the battery toothbrushes this week...I had a peek at them not long ago and the heads on them are VERY big, and they are quite bulky and heavy to fit in his hand. There is not a lot of variety in them here like I know they have elsewhere.   I was also against it because they really are not good for cleaning purposes but you are right, if it is a stepping stone to a better experience then I need to choose and can accept poorer cleaning for a couple of weeks I guess.   I will also ask my sister about that mouthwash and see if she is able to get me some, what brand is it?

[*Becky*]

DS would never let us clean his teeth and he always just played about with the toothbrush in the bath. I bought him an electric toothbrush from jojo maman bebe and it was a good one but tbh for us it did not help much. We also literally would have had to hold him down to do it and there would have been much screaming etc and it was just not what I wanted but I also knew we had to change something.
So....after milk and books DH took over the teeth cleaning to begin with. He made it into a really big deal e.g. they do a hug and a kiss before they start (mainly because DS just kept saying 'hug hug' when he was trying to clean the teeth - major avoidance tactic!) He sits on a special seat, he is allowed his turn first and then dh carries on. DH always says 1 2 3 Done at the end.
He also began by having little bits in his shirt pocket so DS would play with them i.e. a plectrum.
It really worked and still does. Dh started it but he is not in every night so I do it now too and we never have any complaints from him which is amazing when I think back to 3 months ago.

Now I need to start a good routine in the am as I must admit I don't really enforce anything then.

I think I would not worry about 3 x a day - that is really tough and most adults don't clean them that often I don't think.

bx

[aisling]

Have you spoke to a dental hygienist?  We did at the time when we had this (2 yr molars and his spirited texture issues) and she said even if you get him to use the brush without paste it is fine.  She said more importantly water rinsing is important.  I started giving his brush in the bath and let him deal with it.  3x a day is not needed for this age unless they are having massive amounts of sugar, walking around with a juice bottle etc...which I highly doubt.  That is what the hygienists said to me, she was sure DS had a good diet and just get him using the brush when he feels like it and drinking water to clear particles. (we let him drink from tap in bath and spit out in tub.) We also used the battery operated brush and let him just do it the best he good, with me trying a bit more, it was ok, but more of a toy, but hey some bristles did touch the teeth!  It was a short lived phase like 3 months, so I was not going to force it for him or my own sanity. He LOVES brushing his teeth now, so that to me is more important.  Been to dentist, no cavities (and he has had teeth since 4 months old) .  Hygienist talked about flossing as something that is harder and more important to get kids to do and he loves to attempt it, but I'm not going to push that either he is still young.

Oh just remembered, sometimes I would wipe the teeth with a wet cloth when I could get him in a playful mood, she said that was good too.

[teilvnav]

Nathan uses a little Thomas the Train electric toothbrush and some Little Bear toothpaste which is blue and is berry flavoured. I know that it isn't perfect, but he at least lets us get in there properly 1-2 times a day now. Before, it was utter refusal and tantrums. Some days he likes the motor on, and some days he doesn't; either way, I can get in his mouth now. The brush was only about $8 Canadian, Mashi; maybe your dad could include one in his next package? Nathan is obsessed with "choo choo"'s, and I am sure that is why he allows the brush anywhere within 5 feet of him these days.

I used to give him something to play with while I brushed his teeth; a small mirror worked, as well as a cool toy car that he was only allowed to touch while he let me brush his teeth. He looked pretty funny holding it up over his head to see it around my hands.

[Mashi]

We have not talked to the hygienist but my sister is a dentist and I also spoke to my dentist about it when I went in the summer. We generally don't worry about paste - it is his choice each time if he wants to use it or not, toothpaste doesn't help to clean teeth at all, it's just a vessel for fluoride, it's the brushing action that does the cleaning, so he can choose to take it or leave it. 

Aisling I am surprised your hygienist said that 3x a day is not necessary unless there is a sugary diet...bacteria develops from foods other than sugary foods (ie/ all foods!) and begins the job of decaying teeth after about 30 minutes - so it is not so much a "3x per day" rule but rather brushing shortly after meals, which usually happens to be 3x per day, so I am surprised she would say to just allow food to sit in there all day for so long!  The idea of a wet cloth or of just letting him rinse I was told that now that he has an "adult diet" that its no longer sufficient...though it is how we approached it for a long time. I suppose if I go back to that for at least one time then it eliminates some of the battle and does a tiny bit of the job. Hmmm. I guess it just stresses me out because teeth hygiene is something soooo important to me - I will back down on most things but I find it very hard to give on this one!

I guess the last thing I have left to try is the battery toothbrush. Hmmmm. I'll look again but you're right Amy maybe I can ask someone to post one over...do you find that the brush end actually fits in Nathan's mouth? The battery ones here are HUGE, like the head would gag him for sure, and I think be very uncomfortable in his mouth.  I need one where the brush end is actually a train and can "chug" along the tracks of his teeth...he'd go for that I bet, he is train obsessed!

[momtonb&ab]

hey Mashi,

just wanted to chime in and say that our dentist here says 2x per day brushing is more than enough - and actually he recommended that we allow DS and DD to brush once themselves in the morning (while we supervise and help guide them) and then we do a good brush and floss at bedtime.   i really trust our dentist as DS and DH both have hereditary soft tooth enamel and need to be vigilant about their teeth.  DS has perfect teeth otherwise (and has had teeth since 5 months) so i wonder if you could ease your battles a bit by reducing the number of brushings?   our LOs love to brush, and even more so now that they are responsible for doing it themselves!

also to say that SIL is a hygenist in BC and she insisted on brushing 3 times per day (and was having the pin-em-down battle with both her kids).   one day in discussion with her boss the matter came up and he was able to present a good case that 2x per day was sufficient for excellent oral hygiene.

i know your sister is a dentist and i don't want to contradict her, only to give you some other perspectives!

[teilvnav]

His brush head (the bristle part) is approximately 50% smaller than my adult one. The handle is about the same length. It was too big for him when we bought it a few months ago, but it fits just fine now. The train is on the handle, though... I love the idea of it being on the brush part.

The paste might actually help, if you don't mind bribing him with a flavour.

[my3girlsjde]

I can't remember the specific name of the mouthwash but I'm pretty sure that it's put out by colgate and it turns the bacteria green. You could always go on the toothpaste websites and do a search.

[aisling]

Yes I am well aware of foods and sugar, bacteria etc... her statement was in context to worrying about him going through this anti brushing phase, (it doesn't last forever) which she has seen so many times and is also a mother of 4 and really felt unless we gave him extra unhealthy sugars (sadly the people that give coke in a baby bottle type clients) she said it really is fine, just let him have the brush and hope for the best. As long as we just keep showing him that this is what eventually happens, it is part of your daily hygiene routine, then it would be fine.  Well, she was right in our situation. Same as our approach to flossing now, (which is the real part of fantastic oral hygiene, you can brush to your heart is content but with out this...) we are just in the dabble stage, but he knows it something you do as part of your routine, we'll get there.


We brush 2 x a day.  DS eats about 6 meals a day, so he would have a toothbrush hanging out of his mouth all day lol!

Again, she reminds, rinsing is good.  She also doesn't have a problem with sugar free chewing gum and recommends this and claims it helps with the whole production of enzymes, clearing bacteria etc...

It was such a short phase, I chose to just keep reminding him that it is part of our routine, but I didn't push it.  I really don't remember what it was like getting my 2nd yr molars, but DS had a tough time, so I let him get through that.  He is also spirited and so am I, I understand what it is like to have over sensory issues, and to be pushed really, really bugs me, (DH always telling me to wear socks in the middle of the winter when I complain I am cold, lol... hate socks, feet traps they should be called) so for that too, I let the phase pass.  Call me an old softy then.

[Edesanja]

You may be already past the point of this working, but I'll put it out there since I haven't seen it:
When DD started resisting me brushing her teeth (wanted to do it all herself) a couple of months ago, I started letting her choose what song I would sing to her as I brushed them (the first time I chose Mary had a little lamb, so she chooses this same song EVERY SINGLE TIME STILL!). I do 4 verses which is time to get in a really good brushing, then she gets a turn.

[MLK]

There are lots of factors involved in the development of tooth decay - not just bacteria in the mouth but the acidity/alkalinity of saliva, which is dependent on diet. And everyone pretty much knows what diet causes tooth decay (sugar, refined carbs like white flour etc)

[momtonb&ab]

That's a great point too Jenny.  We counting things and they picked the object for counting and we would make a silly game out of it to distract them.  As a result they can count to fifty

[Jiinx]

bacteria develops from foods other than sugary foods (ie/ all foods!) and begins the job of decaying teeth after about 30 minutes

I really don't want to divert the topic away from your toothbrushing battles, Mashi..I hope things have gotten a bit better?

There is a time after we eat in which the pH in saliva drops to a level that can cause cavities - this lasts for 30 minutes and after this time, it goes back to normal. However, during this time the enamel has softened (especially if you've had juice or anything that can cause the pH to dip lower, such as acidic foods) and one can argue that brushing during this time can actually lead to more damage.

I've seen kids - kids of all ages. Some of them have CAKED on tartar..and I don't even have to use my instruments on them...it washes away with the polisher (Mr. tickler..lol or whatever name I dream up). Yes, babies/toddlers get tartar BUT as long as you wipe/brush/swish it with water it should be sufficient.

I've seen many many patients - some brush once a day and they have zero caries and zero tartar buildup. However, some people brush religiously and they have the opposite issue - buildup and caries. A lot has to do with diet, yes ..but a lot has to do with our saliva. Our saliva washes our teeth and protects our teeth - some are lucky to have a lot and some have drier mouths due to medication or genetics..

*hugs* Just wanted to offer you peace of mind and experience

ETA: We learned in school that cheese after a meal can help ward off teeth decay. In a bind, pop in a piece of cheese. Really, I'm not making it up

[JJshappymum]

Hi Mashi -  we are also going through this battle and DS won't open for anything, even if we pin him down he just bites down on our fingers.  I had to let it go for a while so he would forget all of the negative association. A lot had to do with teething and his gums being so sore. I think his 2 year molars are on their way.

What helped us was choosing a toothpaste in his favorite flavor. We got apple/banana flavor and he actually brushes his teeth willingly now. He won't let me near him but we put him on a stool so that he can look at himself in the mirror. It makes him feel taller and more independent.

Do you have any relatives or friends with toddlers, maybe a little older or at least his age? When my DS sees other kids doing something (like eating ) he does it too without a fuss and totally shocks me. Maybe you could have him watch someone he likes and plays with do it spontaneously. Try to get someone else to supervise so you are not in the picture. This strategy has helped me in other areas we have had resistance with. (eating, potty training, etc. ) 

[Mashi]

Thanks for the advice everyone.  I have decided that it's too important for me to just "let go" and not brush his teeth - so we're keeping up with doing what needs to be done, even if that is pinning him down and having him kick and scream while I brush.  I can't just not brush his teeth, I don't have it in me.

[Katet]

You make me feel bad... mine have only started brushing 2 x day since Ds1 got his 6yo molars & first 2 adult teeth... my dentist has always said their teeth are good. Ironically my Sisters Ds has had 3 cavities & she has always brushed his teeth 2x day... difference is we have floride in our tap water & where my Sis lived in the UK until her DS1 was almost 3 didn't have Floride in the water.
My Dentist did say when I talked about it when Ds1 first started going "with Floride in the water there  is much less risk with never cleaning teeth if they drink tap water than children who live places with no floride" My friend who moved away & lives on tank water gives her children Floride tablets because she worries... like many of us grew up before Floride was in the water.
So while it isn't something I made a big battle out of (trusted my Dentist) I think I would have if there wasn't Floride in the water.

[Mashi]

Kate, it's not meant to make anyone feel bad, Im sorry.  In fact I would say if anything I am the one who feels bad because everyone else here is able to take a very laissez faire attitude towards teethbrushing and I am the one who insists that my child must be held down and forced to do it rather than being able to say oh well.

Fluoride is a key thing, you're right!  And we have no fluoride in the water here (or very little anyway, not enough).  DS is supposed to take fluoride tablets - should have had them from 12 months but paed did not realise it when we moved here and he only got them at hi 2yo check up instead - and won't take them at all. He spits them out, what a huge surprise