Help! Sleep deprivation is taking over!

[kkennedy]

Hi all, I haven't posted on here before but have seen all the useful advice and tips that you share and was hoping that you might be able to help me.  I have a nearly 5 month old son who did a fabulous stint of only waking once a night for about a month when he was about 3 months old, since then it has being going downhill! We now seem to get two or three wakings a night (depending on when you view the night ending!).  Also daytime naps are pretty rubbish too, he'll only sleep for a max of 45 mins at a time and I can't seem to get this any longer unless we are out in the car. 

I started following the EASY routine when he was about 2.5 months and it seemed to be going ok although we tend to end up with EASAE as his sleeps never go up to the next feeding time.  As an example this is what yesterday looked like:

7.15 awake
7.50 Feed
8.45 Asleep
9.15 Awake
9.50 Feed (also doesn't seem to go three hours between feeds very well anymore - was doing this at 3 months)
11.15 Asleep
11.45 Awake
1.00 Feed
2.15 Asleep
3.00 Awake
3.50 Feed
5.10 Asleep
5.35 Awake
6.25 Feed
7.15 Into bed, took a little while to settle but was asleep by 7.30
8.30 Woke - gave dummy and he went back to sleep
9.45 woke - dummy didn't work (at this point DH had to call me to come home as I was out (for the second time ever!)
10.30 Feed
1am Woke - gave dummy and back to sleep
2am Feed
5 - woke - gave dummy and back to sleep
5.30 Feed
7am awake and that was the start of today

So, he does have a dummy and we would have absolutely no chance without it, I did used to think that he woke because the dummy had fallen out but sometimes I go in when he was woken and its still in his mouth so don't think it is that, although it does sometimes work to get him back to sleep.  Generally he goes down to sleep well at night, he goes into the cot awake but sleepy (and of course with the dummy!) and goes off to sleep quite well and usually within about 10 mins.  Naps are a different story and I often have to rock him to sleep, sometimes when that doesn't work I then have to put him in cot as he is fighting me too much to rock him, this then takes him a little while to calm down and stop wriggling but he will eventually go off to sleep - during this time I am outside door going in and out to put dummy back in, sshhhh a bit, stroke head etc until he finally goes to sleep.

I know this isn't the worse sleep situation and I really sympathise with others who are having a rough time as well but if there is anything obvious you think I am doing wrong or could do differently to help get a better nap and nighttime situation I would be very grateful! Its especially depressing when friend's babies of the same age are sleeping through 7-7!

Oh - he is EBF and also I don't change his nappy in the night (not sure if that's relevant! he never poos overnight).

Thanks in advance!

 

[deckchariot]

Welcome to BW!!  You'll find lots of great help and support here.  The first thing I noticed with your EASY is that his A times are all over the place (1 hr 45, 2, 2.5, 2 hr 10, 1 hr 40).  At his age, most bubs are doing between 2 hrs and 2 hr 15 - so I suspect some of your A times are too short, some are too long and he gets OT during the day which then leads to your NWs.  Of course....if only it were that easy   When he has a short nap (anything under 1 hr), his next A time will need to be shortened:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=128419.0

Also, it looks like he does not know how to go to sleep independently for naps - is that right?  Tweaking his A times will not fix that.  I would suggest doing shh/pat and pu/pd.  Here are some links:  http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?board=89.0  It will not be quick, but it will work.  Until he learns to go to sleep on his own, he will likely continue to wake at any sleep transition, because he won't know how to get himself back to sleep without you.  I'd work with dh and come up with a plan that you both can commit to.  You can post a separate thread on pu/pd for additional support there if you'd like.

Hang in there - I know it's hard when all you want is to get some sleep! 

hth
michelle

[kkennedy]

Hi Michelle,

Thanks for your reply! I see what you mean about the A times, I will try to get these evened  out a bit, I think I will aim for 2 hours, so I guess that means I will probably have to start trying to get him down for a nap about 15 mins before the 2 hours is up as it can take a little while.  You are totally right about the problem with falling asleep independently, I really really wish we hadn't started using the dummy but we were desperate when he was 6 weeks old and don't know how we would have got through the last few months without it.

I have a couple of questions about shh/pat and PU/PD, DS has minor reflux so I think that might mean we shouldn't use PU/PD (which I have to say would be a bit of a relief as I don't think I have the emotional stamina for it!) but is he too old (21 weeks) for shh/pat? and can you still use the dummy with shh/pat or is it a case of going cold turkey? I have read a link to a 'gradual weaning process' to get babies off the dummy that might help us, do you think that I would need to do that separately from the shh/pat process or could I do it together?

Its so difficult contemplating trying to get him to settle without the use of the dummy because he gets so worked up and its really hard to calm him without it! I know it will be better in the long run but its a daunting thought!

Also - sorry for all the questions! - as his naps are so short, its quite common for him to have been awake for two hours around 5pm, normally we bath about 6 and then feed and usually into bed by 7, so trying to make him stay awake another two hours until 7 is a bit of a nightmare and we can have quite an upset post bathtime, but on the other hand if I try and get him to take a nap at 5, is that too late for him to then try to get to sleep at 7pm? its so tricky!

Thanks for all your help!

 

[kkennedy]

Hi again,

Sorry also meant to ask - re self settling/independent sleep - at night he doesn't wake at the 45 min mark, he will sleep for stints of 3 hours or so (recently sometimes only two  ) so  how does this fit in with the fact that he can't get past the 45 mins in the day? he has the dummy to go to sleep at night as well so not sure how that works and why it is different?

Thanks!

[aidenmc]

Hi there. Your lo sounds like mine (who is 12 weeks). WE have short naps and interrupted nights. I think night sleep is different physiologically. So they fall into a period of deep sleep at the beginning of the night and then have more light sleep as the night  goes on. THinking of starting sp here as I spent almost 2 hours on the 1st 2 naps today. 

[deckchariot]

Becky is right - bubs organize day and night sleep differently, so I'm not surprised he has more trouble at night than in the daytime.

No, he's not at all too old for shh/pat - and you are correct - pu/pd would be exceedingly challenging with reflux.  Even shh/pat can be - the patting especially, so you may want to use more of a rubbing than a patting.  Is he medicated for reflux?  If he's at all pain from the reflux, sleep training will not be successful, so please make sure that is taken care of first.

You can use the dummy with shh/pat, and you can wean it gradually as you do shh/pat.  Keep in mind, reflux bubs often suck for comfort.  So personally, I'd keep the dummy for now and just work on shh/pat for sleeping.  If he always wakes because his dummy is out, then I'd wean.  But that's a personal choice because I know reflux bubs and sleep training don't always mix.

With the nap at 5 - you could do a catnap at 4:30 or so - just a short 30-45 min to help him get through til bedtime.  He should be fine with that.  Or you could move bedtime earlier.

hth
michelle