7 month old on EASY but waking constantly at night up to 8 times!HELP

[guerreira]

I have been through the posts on here and I cant find anyone who has a solution for what I am experiencing so I am hoping someone will read this and be able to shed some light on what I can try next!

Raphael was sleeping from 10pm until 5.00am from 7 weeks until he was about 4 1/2 months then he started waking up during the night and seemed uncomfortable rather than hungry. His daytime sleeps also decreased around the same time. I found this forum and implemented an EASY routine for him when he was 5 1/2 months. His daytime sleeps have now increased from 45mins until 1 1/4 to 1 1/2 hrs and he is now 7 1/2 mths so for last 2 mths I have had EASY implemented. I thought his nighttime sleeps would improve in line with the daytime sleeps however things are getting worse! He started thumping his legs up and down at night at about 4 1/2 mths - I read that other babies do this and its is a self settling thing however Rapha screams and cries and works himself into a frenzy if left thumping his legs. I found that if he wakes at night on his back and thumps his legs I just needed to turn him onto his side and he would go straight back to sleep but only for half an hour, then wakes up and I have to turn him back onto his side or feed him to get him to settle but he goes straight back to sleep, until he wakes again sometimes just as I return to bed he will wake and have turned onto his back. Pls dont lecture about putting babies on their sides vs back - he always slept on his back until he started thumping his legs and I also swaddled, but he just refuses to sleep on his back anymore. I have tried tylenol and chamomilla and nothing settles him into a deep sleep. He self settles at night and goes to sleep perfectly but he just doesnt sleep deeply. He wakes up constantly between 1-5am. He goes to bed between 8-9pm he has a dummy but usually spits it out and often doesnt want it again during the night so I dont think it is a prop. He now wakes screaming. he is tething - 6 teetha t a time! but when he wakes he genuinely seems to want to sleep and but he flips onto his back and refuses to stay and return to sleep on his back. I am at a loss. I have no idea what to do.any suggestions

[guerreira]

Easy
7.00am wake up breastfeed
7.45am solids pureed fruit
9.30-10am Sleep
11.15am breastfeed
12pm Solids
2pm Sleep
3.30 Breastfeed
5.30 Nap usually only about 20-30mins
6.30 Dinner
7.00 Bottle- Formula
7.30-8.00 Nap
9.30 Bath, breastfeed and bed

I realise he goes down late but my partner and I both work nights and so unfortunately we have no choice I am trying to change this but from 5pm until 9pm he is with his grandparents. I also want to stop breastfeeding this month. Yes, I do give him tylenol after his bath and before his breastfeed, I also have tried chamomilla drops and nene dent here in Brazil which is like a baby teething gel with a numbing agent. He has 6 teeth all coming through or just about through and I think he has another 2 at least not far away by the looks.
He goes down for his sleeps easy enough during the day but usually will wake after 40mins and I have to p/up p/down sometimes to get him to go back for more until 1hr and 15mins or 1hr 30mins, he will cry and fuss but goes back to sleep. At night he settles fine and goes to sleep by himself I put him down awake. But he will wake up around 11.30 -12, I usually just need to put him back on his side and he goes straight back to sleep. But he will constantly wake during the night and need me to put him on his side he wont go back to sleep on his back and screams and throws himself around. He wont sleep in bed with me I tried, he is exactly the same in my bed as with the crib. He genuinely seems tired but unable to get himself back to sleep. He doesnt want to be held, or rocked and pushes against me. The only thing that will settle him is b/f and so I have been doing this which I know is now going to be an issue to stop! but I am exhausted and I hate to hear him scream like he has started to do for any length of time. Any any any help would be grateful.

[momtonb&ab]

i think most of your issue here might be the length of his day -

i know you said you can't get him down at night before 9:30 - could you extend his night so the day doesn't start until 9:30 am ?  i think a 12 hour day here is what will resolve the night wakings - he is OT becaue he really probably needs that bath/breastfeed at 6:30 to get to bed by 7 for the night.  if grandparents can't do that (and have you pick him up sleeping and bring him home) then i think your best option would be to push his day forward, beginning at 9:30 am and going forward from there.

at his age there is really no concern for him sleeping on his side or belly even - if he is strong enough to lift his head and sleeps better, let him go.  my DS by that age could not be controlled - he was on back, side, tummy at all times of the night - a fish out of water we used to say about his sleep positions    don't worry so much about that. 

[guerreira]

I was afraid that it might be the length of his day...I am not sure how to get around it. But yes, I will start there. Thanks so much for replying.

[Chicane]

Hi there guerreira

I agree with Cherie - no problem with side or tummy sleeping at this age.

I think the length of his day is a key issue here. Perhaps discuss with your parents if there is any solution...are they able to take him to your house towards the end of the day? Can you express breast milk so they can give him his last feed of the day and do the bed time routine with him? I know its not ideal and it can be so hard to find ways for things to fit in around your other committments...

Also other than the lenght of his day, and I guess because of it...he is having too many naps which could also affect his night sleep. Check out the sample routines here for his age group http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=164030.0

At this age many LOs are working towards dropping the Cat Nap and moving to 2 naps. Your son is currently having 4 naps...I know part of this is because he needs to get to the late bed time but this is probably going to affect his night sleeps too.  Average awake times are between 2 hrs 45 min adn 3 hrs...you may need some combination for example at this age my son liked a short morning A time and a longer afternoon one...other Los perfer it the other way round. Perhaps you could try to extend the morning A time by 5 mins over a few days to reach a longer A time and see if you are able to then just do 3 naps...as a starting point.

Also can he roll over on his own? If he has not started to roll over on his own it can be very helpful to practise this with him during the day on the bed or play mat...you parents can do this with him, make it fun and show him that he can roll himself over...it may take a few days of practise but he will learn it pretty quick.

It hard...but you will find a solution and this will pass...you are doing really great job so far!

xo

[guerreira]

Thanks for the reply. I will look at the EASY sample programs for his age and try adjusting the sleeps etc. He is rolling over - front to back, but he wont sleep on his back any more only on his side(s) he will just scream if I put him down on his tummy now (he used to sleep on his tummy for a short period of time during the day) and flip himself onto his side or back and go crazy. He will stiffen his little arms so I cant turn him on his side, he wont stay on his back and he will flip if I put him on his tummy...so you can imagine how the nights are going...I have no options left! Even if I pick him up he pushes away from me and so I have no idea why he is so uncomfortable all of a sudden. He is teething and unfortunately has 4 top ones all coming thru or thru, the two bottom and looks like there are another 2 coming up the top which is a lot all at once ?? I have tried chamomilla, tylenol, teething gel...but he genuinely wants to sleep, he is not sitting up and playing or anything, he just doesnt seem to stay asleep for long, and is a very very light sleeper. I am losing hope at this just being a phase as it has been 4 months now since he had a good night and things are getting worse!

[momtonb&ab]

have you tried ibuprofen ?  with all those teeth coming through at one he is probably miserable.  ibuprofen has an anti-inflammatory (which is the worst part of teething pain) which will make him more comfortable than tylenol.....

[Chicane]

sending hugs too...I would try the ibuprofen too if you can get it in children's dose...just put himn down on his side and keep practising the rolls in the day time. I think he may be frustrated cause as you say he really wants to sleep but cant get there...if you are able to adjust the length of the day i think it will help as he is getting OT by the end of the day and it makes it hard for him to self settle. Are you able to discuss what's happening at night with your parents, perhaps there is a solution if you put your heads together...This is just one phase he is going through and it will pass, try not to worry too much, he loves you unconditionally and you are doing your very best to give him everything he needs, and you're doing a fantastic job at it. He will get through this and so will you xo

[guerreira]

Thanks for the encouragement - you are all lovely! I am in Brazil (although I am a New Zealander) so it is really difficult to find the same medicines that I can easily get in NZ, here they have different ideas about what you can give and not give - cultural issues! It is my husband's parents who look after him at night and there is a cultural difference there too so it is difficult to get my m-i-law to understand he isnt just hungry! I am taking him to a osteopath tomorrow as cranial osteopathy is really common in NZ and I figure it is worth a try...just in case something is actually physically causing him pain in certain positions. I have adjusted him sleeping during the day and for the last two days have given him longer A time (3 hours) and he is having two sleeps and I have cut the nap out, so tonight he has fallen asleep in the car on the way home exhausted no doubt...last night there was no improvement but obviously it will take time so lets see...I will try to find the ibuprofen as well...as you say hopefully it will pass - but if it doesnt he is happy and healthy while he is awake so I am blessed really compared to others who arent as fortunate so I will continue on! Thank you so much for your kind words..Angela and Raphael xx