Big boy bed sleep issues! Ugh!

[bensmuma]

We just out my ds in a bbb a few weeks ago. Now he's having a terrible time with naps, AND bedtime! He's always been a great independant sleeper for both in his crib, now it's a nightmare. Not only that he's having at least 4 night wakings each night! he wakes more than my 4 month old!Ugh! How can I get him to sleep solidly and independant again? Admittedly, there have been a few naps where I've laid with him recently to fall asleep but I had too! The alternative is a nightmare! I just want him to sttn again. Any advice?

[*Becky*]

Hi there,
Please could you post your routine.
How long has he been in a BBB? Did the issues start as soon as he went in one?
Is he teething at all?
Becky x

[anna*]

How old is he? What's happening, he just keeps gettingout of his bed? Or leaving the room? Or stays in his bed crying?

[bensmuma]

DS is 2.5  as of the 25th of Sept. He's been in a bbb for 2 weeks now. The first few nights were good until he realized he could just come out on his own. Not to say he was always a perfect sleeper. He has always gone through phases of waking up at night several times, asking for me specifically. Before the bbb he was waking after the arrival of his little sister who is now 4 months. He doesn't always come out in the middle of the night, but wakes and cries for me or his blankie which he can't find. He's not teething, has all molars now. My suspicion here is his sister is the biggest issue as we're regressing in the toilet training dept too, asking for diapers instead of pull ups for sleeping, whining and a varitry of other behaviour issues. We've always kept the same wind down routine for naps and bedtime and it was never an issue going to bed until now. When we say it's naptime, he protests and throws a f it once he gets onto the bed. I have to stay with him until he calms down sometimes until he falls asleep.Then he sleeps great. Bedtime, he'll get in bed, fidget fidget, I stay for a few minutes quietly, then leave. He ALWAYS comes out at least twice. I guide him back to bed, no snuggles or love until he stays. The waking begins between 10-11 then it's every few hours after that. He doesn't stay away long, just long enough where we have to go in and comfort for a minute then leave and he goes back to sleep. I'm afraid he's losing sleep and it's causing some of the behaviour issues. Here's a typical day:

0600-0700 Awake
0700-0730 Breakfast
1000 ish Snack
1130 Lunch
1215 Nap
1400-1430 Awake
1430-1500 Snack
1730 Supper
1800 Bath
1900-1920 Books then bed

Let me know what you think!
Thanks!

[bensmuma]

He's been in there for about an hour. I stayed at the side of the bed a few minutes said I'd be back in 5, did, still came out. Now we've been putting him back without saying anything for 45min. How long do we keep this up? he won't stay in the bed!

[bensmuma]

I'm about to lock him in......ADVICE PLEASE!

[anna*]

I was actually going to suggest a baby gate up at the door. My LO was younger, but it was a necessity for us, he simply could not stay in his room. After a couple of days of battle, he settled quickly and easily, and still (a year later) asks for his gate to be shut if I leave it open. I think it helps him to feel more secure.

Five minutes is a LONG time for a little guy, especially if he's feeling tired and/or anxious. I would say you will be back in 'a minute' and go back in 30 seconds. Then 40. Then 50. Then a minute. Then two minutes. Keep going back every two minutes.

Other thoughts:
Talk about bedtime/nap time when you are not 'in the moment'. Let him know what your expectations are, and WHY you need him to go to sleep ('I need to help you to get the rest that your body needs, so we can both be happy')
A pictorial chart showing his wind-down routine, ending up with him sleeping happily in bed, so he feels that he has some control
Making sure his 'mummy cup' is REALLY full. I have heard that a lot of anxiety about a younger sibling really starts to kick in as they get older. When they are tiny they don't really 'do' much, but the more cute and engaging the little one gets, the more the older one sees his mum and dad giggling and cooing and trying to get smiles from the little one
A longer wind down. Once we got to 2.5, I really had to extend the wind-down. More stories, taking longer. I don't know if that's even feasible with a younger one, but just throwing it out there.

[bensmuma]

Great advice Anna , Thank you!  The up side of his not napping yesterday is he slept through the night from 7-730 without waking except to say he was hot! We didn't have to go in once! My 4mo old also slept 12 hours..first time they've EVER both sttn! Yeay me! But unfortunately he didn't nap at daycare today either. Bedtime tonight was too bad, he came out twice right away even after I said I'd be back in a minute. Then the third time I told him I'd be back, I went in about 15seconds later before he moved and told him "see I told you I'd come back". He didn't move after that. We'll see how tonight and tomorrow goes, my dh is home with both kids tomorrow.....not a good omen 

[bensmuma]

So naps are a definite problem complicated by terrible sleep nights and early wakings. He's now waking up and trying to sneak into our bed several times a night. Pretty much every time he wakes. I gently guide him back to his own bed and it's not too tough getting him to stay at that point with me leaving. But I did have to stay until he fell asleep for naptime. He was up at 0530 this morning wanting to come in our bed and simply refused to go back to his. What do I do? I'm afraid with a gait he'll scream and yell...not good for my sleeping infant directly across the hall. Still lost AND tired

[anna*]

With a gate he probably WILL scream and yell for a couple of nights. But honestly, at this age he doesn't really have the impulse control to stay in bed even if he wants to, especially when he is tired/in the middle of the night. If you turn up white noise LOUD in the baby's room, that should help, and it may not be as bad as you expect.

[bensmuma]

TBH I can't do the gate thing. I know he'll freak out crying and it would seem to be like CIO to me. Just my personal preference. I'm trying desperately to keep his Mommy cup full. Any other suggestions?

[anna*]

How about sitting in his doorway with his back to him - so he can see you but you're not interacting - then carry on doing the silent return thing as you ahve been doing.

I should add as well that I'm not suggesting leaving him to scream and shout - just that youca n comfort him with your presence and your voice from outside the gate, or go in if/when he is super upset. It's just a suggestion for keeping him in his room and helping him feel more secure threre.

[bensmuma]

Anna, bedtime has been pretty good this week! I do the usual routine then sit with him in his bed for a minute or two, kiss him goodnight and then stand outside his door with it cracked so he can see me. He's done pretty well not getting out of bed at all some nights and a few nights he's gotten out once when I've left, but not bad! We've still had a few night wakings where he tries to come into our bed but it's easy to get him back into his without having to stay with him. When wakeup roles around however, THAT'S a different story! Between 6-7 he comes to our bed wanting in. If it's 6 we say no and take him back to his and he LOSES it completely. Especially if it's dh doing the guiding. One of us has to lay with him in his bed at that point just to keep him there until his morning clock lights up at 7. We'll definitely try weaning that soon! But overall not a bad week for bedtime......naps another story 

[anna*]

Hey that is GREAT news that he is doing better at bedtime! So he's still having his nap around 12.15? Is he doing basically 11.5-12 hour nights? I wonder if he might be ready to move his nap a bit later? I noticed a big change in sleep needs in my LO, happened at exactly 2.5years old. Do you think maybe he's just not tired enough at 12.15?