Author Topic: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps  (Read 5422 times)

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Offline Grace's Mummy

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Re: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps
« Reply #15 on: October 15, 2010, 18:22:38 pm »
I hope you don't mind me putting my ten cents worth in. I really feel for you. It is so difficult when your LO wakes up so often in the night.

My LO is 11 and a bit months old and we left doing EASY until about 10 months or so. It was SO hard at first and it has taken since the beginning of September, but she has finally been able to sleep through the night and has done so for the last three nights. We have had many NWs over the time and sometimes it would take two hours to resettle her, and we have had our day starting at 4.30 am and she doesn't nap much at all. I have been exhausted too, so I really understand that. I have been going to bed at 8.45 pm and to sleep at 9.30 pm every night for a while. I also try and sleep when she does. If you can, perhaps you could try that and catch up on a little sleep.

We were co-sleeping with her until 7th September when we put her in her own room and cot. It was a big move, but she did brilliantly. She used to be fed to sleep as well, but she has managed to stop doing that too. I also fed her in the night, and I stopped doing that as well. I felt that was encouraging her to wake up. I am not sure though at the age of your LO whether you can do that. I think you are doing great with only feeding him every four hours in the night. It is obviously not for that reason he is waking up.

What I am trying to say here is that it will take time, patience and perseverance, but you will get there. I had so much brilliant help from some of the members here and I am sure you will too. Just keep going even when you feel like giving up with it. It is worth it.

I think the NWs may be to do with what is happening during the day. With our NWs and EWs I think it was because she was going to bed too early. I was putting her to bed early because she wasn't napping. I thought that would help but it just created many other problems. I found that stretching out her A times really helped and also setting her naps. I think that is regulating her body clock. We only started the set naps a few days ago, but I am glad we have started it. I felt that I needed some regularity and rhythm. I am finding it great. Over the last few days, we have been tweaking her A times to best suit her and get the best naps. I know that set naps are not strictly BW, but they can work. If you go with whatever A time is appropriate for your LOs age, you could start from there.

When I started this, I held her whenever she cried, then I gradually reduced the number of times I picked her up. I then didn’t pick her up, but instead rubbed her back and patted it. Then whenever she was quiet, I did nothing except stand by her cot. Gradually I moved away. I thought I would never get out of the room, but over a few weeks (it was not a fast process), I got to the door and then to the other side of the door. If she cries, I go back, pat her back and then go out. The walk in / walk out method is explained somewhere here. Basically I followed the BW guidelines. I read the FAQ about PU / PD and also any other FAQ that I thought were relevant. I was desperate to get it right for her. If she is OT or not wanting to sleep, I still stay with her and pat her back until she is ready for me to leave. It is so much better than it ever was. Now sometimes it will take 25 – 30 mins, but that is rare. Mostly, I can kiss her and leave her. If not, I can just pat her and rub her and then leave her. I think if you withdraw gradually and take a while to do it, he will get used to it. Does he have a lovey? I found that helped my LO a lot. It gives her something to cuddle in her cot. Check whether a lovey is appropriate at your LOs age. I am not sure about that. If it isn’t you could introduce one as soon as you are able. If you sleep with it for a few nights first, it will smell of you.

Is there anyone who could perhaps take your LO out for a walk or something to give you a chance to sleep?

I understand your feelings about giving formula. When our LO was less than two weeks old we were told I had to do that to help her put on weight. I hated the idea, but did it because that was what she needed and I was very stressed so it was what I needed in a way too. It meant I could concentrate on bfeeding her and not worrying about whether she was getting enough because she was topped up. It may help you to relax and get some sleep. Right now, I think you need to focus on that. Getting sleep is so important because it affects all you do.

Anyway, I hope I have not said too much. I am thinking of you and if you need any more advice or help, please let me know. I will follow along. Good luck and I hope you get some sleep.
« Last Edit: October 15, 2010, 20:40:23 pm by Grace's Mummy »



Offline sleeplessinmanchester

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Re: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps
« Reply #16 on: October 15, 2010, 20:34:08 pm »
Thanks Grace's Mummy - we were sort of co-sleeping too. It is so hard not to give up and pull him into bed with me - it would be so easy. But me and DH really need the space.

The wee man has just woken up for the first time, which is two hours since going down - better than the one hour I was getting last night.

I think ya'll were right about him getting ill - he is losing his voice...it is all squeaky and hoarse. I don't know if this is from crying or a cold. It doesn't feel as if he has been crying THAT much. Poor little man. I have given him some Calpol.

We got a phone call from the sleep counsellor today and she will be visiting in 10 days time. I would really like some progress before then as I think the method the NHS advise is cry it out.

Offline sleeplessinmanchester

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Re: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps
« Reply #17 on: October 15, 2010, 20:50:21 pm »
I will really think about everything you have said Grace's Mummy - thanks for taking the time to write.

With the formula thing, I had planned to start weaning him onto formula about now. I just don't really want the extra stress. The HV advised leaving the house all day as the LO wont starve himself...not sure My DH could cope with the crying etc.

I've just seen on facebook that a couple of the babies from my mother and baby group are ill too. I hope he gets better soon. When LO is ill do you persevere with EASY & PUPD or is it ok to cuddle/feed/comfort to sleep at night?

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Re: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps
« Reply #18 on: October 15, 2010, 21:43:41 pm »
DS lost his voice adn it went all hoarse a couple weeks ago and he had a viral throat infection. He had actually had a temp for a few days before that. He was better within a few days of the sore throat though. It might be worth gettiing your dr to check him over in case it is bacterial and he needs antibiotics maybe?
Re the formula, it is up to you but I would be really angry if someone told me to use formula when I have chosen to BF. I have little faith in HVs as I have had lots of dodgy advice from them in the past. Even my GP says to come see her instead of bothering with the HV as the ones round here according to her give their own opinion of whatever is easier rather than what is the national policy/recommended advice etc. They are not doctors after all. If your LO is gaining weight so well he is obviously not going hungry so I guess it comes down to whether you feel you need that break enought to switch to formula. And that is of course your choice if you do. I guess you would be building up to three meals a day soon anyway?
Yes I think the NHS view is to do CIO. That is certainly what is advocates in the text book Birth to Five we were given at the hospital.
I would stay stick to your guns and do what you think is best. Good luck.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline sleeplessinmanchester

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Re: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps
« Reply #19 on: October 16, 2010, 07:32:20 am »
Hi,

re formula: I would like to switch over gradually before I go back to work - continue teaching LO to use a cup and never have to use bottles. I was really confused when the HV said she thought he needed it and three meals a day - especially as he has jumped up the centiles from just being Breastfed and baby led weaning. To me the sleep problem is clearly not food/weight related. Three months ago when I asked them how to go about introducing a bottle at night because I needed a rest I was made to feel so guilty about it by a different HV I didn't do it...they really haven't helped me with very much at all.

I'll take the LO to the doctors- he doesn't have a temperature and seems a bit brighter this morning but we'll get checked out.

Last night was both good and bad. The gas man came to replace our meter right in the middle of bedtime and disturbed things a little - v. annoying as he was supposed to come in the morning.

6pm bath, massage, story, watch projector and listen to Twinkle Twinkle Little Star
6.45 Feed (both breasts). I burped him afterwards to make sure he was awake before going to sleep
7pm into bed drowsy. I just pulled the covers up and said night night,
7.10pm asleep
8pm LO shouted out but got himself back to sleep
9pm NW woke up crying, escalated into a very angry cry, DH tried to settle with soft words, shh/pat then PUPD
10.20pm LO still crying but the cry changed to a hungry cry
10.30pm feed
12.20pm NW - just fussing so I left him for a bit
12.40 cry escalated into screams. I tried to settle LO by just repeating sleep phrase and putting a hand on his chest. Eventually he calmed down a little, I removed my hand and kept saying the sleep phrase. LO nodded off a couple of times but woke up crying after 10-15 mins snooze. This went on until 2.30am when he was completely exhausted and frustrated. hungry cries start.
2.30am fed
3am into bed drowsy. LO started sucking his thumb (he has never done this before). I said my sleep phrase and left the room.
7.45 awake(!) I can't believe he slept that long. I didn't set the alarm for 7am as he is normally up well before then

So there was a lot of crying but at least we got a little sleep. I feel so much better for it.
I realise it is not ideal starting the day late. I'll just have to be extra watchful for sleep signs etc, I guess.

Offline empowered mama

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Re: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps
« Reply #20 on: October 16, 2010, 14:08:38 pm »
Yep, agree with Jane - you are doing really well.  Hang in there and keep up the great work....



Offline *Ali*

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Re: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps
« Reply #21 on: October 16, 2010, 19:34:55 pm »
Personally I wouldn't worry about the late WU at the moment if it means he is starting the day less OT than he would if you had woken him earlier.
Well done. I hope things continue to improve.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline sleeplessinmanchester

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Re: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps
« Reply #22 on: October 17, 2010, 15:57:36 pm »
Hey,

Last night was a a slight improvement. LO was up every 1 hr 45mins until 4 and then slept until 7.30am - it meant I got a chunk of much needed sleep.

Today has looked like this so far:

7.30 awake and feed
8.30 solids
10.10 nap, asleep for 10.15
11.50 awake and feed
12.30 solids
2.35 feed
2.45 nap, asleep for 2.50 (he was not showing any sleepy signs that I could see...)
3.45 awake
4.30 solids

so...the last two days he has taken long morning naps and been awake for much longer - he is also much happier. This throws the milk feeds off schedule so for example today he had nearly 4.5 hours between his first two feeds but he was hungry earlier for his next feed and I wasn't sure what to do. He is not yet swallowing enough food to drop a breastfeed - especially as he still needs two feeds in the night.

LO seems to be moving towards 2 naps a day - I just need to work on extending the afternoon one I guess. Should I put him to bed earlier, say 6.45 until this nap extends or becomes later?

It is all so much to consider...one of the good things is that I feel like I know my baby so much better already.

x

Offline empowered mama

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Re: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps
« Reply #23 on: October 17, 2010, 16:19:01 pm »
hi there,

I am thinking you could extend that 2nd A time, maybe by 10-15 minutes, and see if you get a longer nap.  55 minute naps at this age tend to be UT.  If a short nap like this happens, you could shorten the next A time by about 15-30 minutes and then squeeze in a catnap - otherwise you may be doing a really early bedtime - say like 6 or so (which you could potentially do if you prefer early bedtimes).

Regarding the feeds - yes it can be a bit tricky trying to space out the feeds on 4 hrs when your LO is doing 3 hr A times.  One thing I used to do was give half of the feed before the nap and then the rest when he woke.  You may have to get a little creative, but as long as you squeeze in 4 milk feeds in the day somehow (plus solids), I think you will be okay. 

You are doing a really great job and I think you are definitely on the right track.  Just a few tweaks and consistency and hopefully you will get some more sleep and Y time ;)



Offline *Ali*

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Re: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps
« Reply #24 on: October 17, 2010, 21:07:42 pm »
Once they are also having solids in between the BFs you don't need to worry if the feeds go over 4hrs apart especially if you are getting a decent nap at the end of that time. Our first 2 feeds were 5hrs apart when we did a 3hr A time and a 2hr nap. We had cereal 60-90 mins into that A time which had milk in. As our 2nd A is the longest currently at 3hr30 we moved the 3rd BF of the day to before the 2nd nap (not fed to sleep of course) so there was then only about 3hrs between the 2nd and 3rd feeds. Then the last feed is 45 mins before BT before our wind down and BT routine and so for us is about 3hr15 after the 3rd feed. So like Empowered mama says you can just be a little creative and fit them in around naps.
I would probably do early bedtime with your above routine.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline sleeplessinmanchester

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Re: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps
« Reply #25 on: October 18, 2010, 20:02:12 pm »
Hi, Thanks for your replies.

Last night was the best night I have had in a long time. We did early bedtime last night at 6.50 (see a couple of posts up for the rest of the day).

The night looked like this:

6.50pm asleep
8.50pm awake (LO has a bit of a coughing fit and needed comforting and calpol)
10.20pm asleep
1.50am awake, fed burped and back in bed awake
2.30am asleep
5.35am awake, shh/pat to calm LO down then I said sleep phrase and stayed in the room until LO drifted off
6.00am asleep
8.30 awake for the day!  I am not going to start setting the alarm for 7 until we are having less NW

We had a good morning this morning and then a bad afternoon:

8.30 am awake and BF
10am solids
11.10 nap
1.15pm awake (longest nap ever...I actually woke LO up because I didn't know if it was a good idea to let him sleep for longer)
1.20pm BF
4pm BF
4.15 tried to put down for a nap nut LO was overtired - I had tried to push the A time a bit much. LO slept for 20 mins then I did 30 mins PUPD before giving up
5.10pm solids
6pm bath and wind down
6.45 Bf and into bed
7pm asleep

Hopefully the lack of afternoon nap won't affect his nighttime sleep too much. I am feeling sooo much better. Even if we have a bad night tonight, I feel like I have the strength to deal with it. I got a reasonable amount of sleep last night and napped during LO's morning nap. I am not using the Y time to do housework or chores until I have regained some sleep and feel better...I'll get round to it eventually...

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Re: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps
« Reply #26 on: October 18, 2010, 20:29:45 pm »
Your night looks goo with only one feed. Hopefully the more you can settle him without  feeding the less likely he will be to wake.
I think you are right he was OT for the 2nd nap. Good that you did early BT. I hope he sleeps well tonight.
Keep going and I agree the chores can wait.
Cadan Dec 2009 and Colby Aug 2011


Offline empowered mama

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Re: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps
« Reply #27 on: October 19, 2010, 00:56:39 am »
Wonderful news hun :) 

You are doing all the right things and sticking with it so well.  You may have to just watch for that 2nd nap - does he give you any sleepy cues?   How could you tell he was OT?  The reason I ask is that some folks have said that 20 min naps could be caused by UT...

Keep up the great work - glad you are getting rest ;)



Offline sleeplessinmanchester

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Re: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps
« Reply #28 on: October 19, 2010, 08:19:49 am »
Hi,

Empowered mama, I am assuming he was OT yesterday as he woke up crying his eyes out. I thought if he was UT he would wake up happy as he didn't need the sleep? Somedays I can't work out his sleep cues - he doesn't yawn unless he is in bed falling asleep. If we are out in the buggy, he yawns the whole time, even if he has just got up!

We had a great night last night:

7pm asleep
2.30am awake, feed, burp
3.20am asleep
5.35am awake, shh/pat to calm down then said sleepy phrase and pulled the covers up.
6.15 asleep
6.55am awake!

I wish I had gone to bed earlier - I didn't head upstairs until midnight as I just kept thinking, he'll be up in a minute! He has never ever slept that long before. 7.5 hours!!!

Offline empowered mama

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Re: Adjusting EASY to fit short afternoon naps
« Reply #29 on: October 19, 2010, 14:24:41 pm »
That is so great to hear - keep up the great work hun :)