Need help to break this cycle!

[carlicost]

I have a month old DD who sleeps fine during the day (in her swing for now) but has a hard time settling at night.  During the day we run on a good 3 hour EASY with little to no problems.  She can only handle 45 min. A time and about 10 minutes to settle to sleep so she is sleeping 2 hrs pretty much per nap.

Everything is good until we try to put her to bed at 7.  For a week now she has not been able to get to sleep.  We follow the same 4S routine at night.  She shows the same sleep signs but she just can't pass that point where she actually falls into a deep sleep.  I have switched things up, putting her in her bed, putting her in her swing, having a bath, not having a bath and nothing seems to change.  It takes us a good 3-4 hours to get her to finally fall asleep.  She usually ends up crying until she poops out.  I will usually nurse her again after three hours of being up, but she still doesn't settle after that.

She will then sleep until around 2, eat, and go back to sleep with no issues.  When she wakes at 5 for her next feeding, she has a hard time settling again and usually has to fall asleep on my chest and then I lay her in her bed.  She is quite unsettled for a good hour and then will finally fall asleep and wake three hours later to eat and start the day.

I don't know where to post this in the sleep forum, the prop forum or here!  I had a post going in the general sleep forum and we touched on possible reflux problems, but I'm not too sure if that's an issue or not.  I guess my reason for posting here is I'm wondering if she is sleeping too much during the day?  I'm desperate at this point so I thought I would try all areas 

[empowered mama]

Hi there,

Can you post your routine so we can take a look?  I have a feeling that there may be a prop issue going on if she is reliant upon the swing and other forms to get to sleep.  Have you tried shh/pat by chance?

[carlicost]

Our routine is quite consistent throughout the day.  With little variation as she is currently sleeping well.

E - 800
A - 820 (diaper change, quiet play)
S - 900
E - 1100
A - 1120 (diaper change, quiet play)
S - 1200
E - 200
A - 220 (diaper change, quiet play)
S - 300
E - 400
A - 420 (diaper change, quiet play)
S - 500
E - 630
A - 650 (bath)
S - 700 this is where things go haywire as she generally doesn't get to sleep until 10-11:30.  I generally will then feed her at 9:30 or so but it doesn't seem to help her sleep.

I know the swing is currently a prop and I plan on getting rid of that as soon as possible.  I'm just wondering why if it works for the entire day, why it doesn't work at night.  I know she is getting screwed up, but I'd like to fight one battle at a time if possible. 

For the first two weeks I did do shh/pat and it went fairly well, but at two weeks she refused to sleep during the day at all.  I have a 2 year old and spending an hour with my daughter doing shh/pat just wasn't possible so I cracked as she hadn't had any sleep in what seemed like a week and resorted to the swing.  I know it may be the root of all evil, but just need a plan to deal with all the issues so I feel like I at least have some direction with this.

My son was angel/textbook and slept very well from the get go.  DD is a little on the touchy side I think so my game plan needs a radical adjustment!!

[empowered mama]

Your routine does look pretty good.  Are you putting her in the swing at bedtime as well?

Don't beat yourself up about the swing hun.  Certainly you must do what you need to do to get through the days.  I was still reliant on the swing for EWs up until about a month ago (and he is 13 months!) 

If you are putting her in the cot at night, I would imagine she is wanting the prop to help her get to sleep. 

[carlicost]

Just curious, how does your LO sleep now that you don't use the swing anymore?

I have just spent 2.5 hours trying to get DD to sleep, again with no luck.  She is crying right now but I needed a time out to compose myself.  I tried her in her swing last night with no luck so I tried her in her cot tonight.  I held her in my arms for 45 minutes until I was sure she was asleep and when I put her in her bed she started to wake up.  I held my hand on her to stop her from jolting and gave her a paci, but she ended up waking up and is kicking like crazy.

I tried putting her back in her swing with no luck as she is in there crying now.  Not sure what else to try....these marathon bed times are getting very frustrating!!

Although, she only had a catnap again before bed, is that maybe a problem?  Should I try to get her to sleep the whole two hours again before starting the nighttime EASY?  I didn't give her a bath tonight as I was worried it would overstimulate her so I just fed her, changed her and started her on her bedtime routine.

I'll go try again.....

[empowered mama]

It really is sounding to be a prop issue hun.  Your LO is depending on you to put her to sleep in some way shape or form, and until she realizes that she can fall asleep on her own, you will likely have these bedtime battles and NWs. 

Definitely I think it would help to get that long nap in before bed instead of a catnap, but even though the routine isn't completely perfect I think the bigger issue is the prop dependency.  Have you given shh/pat a try yet?

I know it is tough stuff, especially when you have another LO to look after.  But if you can try to get her asleep in the cot consistently for a few days, she may just get the hang of it more quickly than you think.

But in the meantime, we are here for your support - hang in there!

[empowered mama]

Oh, BTW regarding the swing....we only were using it at the early wakings and he always has been able to fall asleep independently for naps and bedtime since PU/PD at 4 months.  But since we stopped using it, sometimes he will go back to sleep if I BF him, but otherwise he is up for the day. 

[carlicost]

We've gone a couple of days now with excellent sleeps during the day (2 hours each one), using the same wind down routine with the same results in the evening.  She even had the long nap before bed time, instead of the cat nap and she still just won't settle to save her life.  I have tried putting her in her swing for bed time and that hasn't helped either. 

Last night she finally passed out at 11:30 then slept until 5 am and woke up for the day at 8 am.  Is there something else in her routine that could need adjusting?  It looks OK to me.  I know the swing thing has to go, but considering she goes now with no issue during the day but refuses at night confuses me!  I guess I'll just keep plugging along but I feel bad for the little girl that she can't settle and want to help her!

[empowered mama]

Hi hun,

What is your A time before bed?  When your LO finally gets to sleep, is it in the cot or the swing?

[carlicost]

Our A time varies between 30-45 minutes depending on whether or not she had a catnap or a full nap.  When she finally falls asleep it is in her cot, although she is nearly asleep in my arms from crying and then I just lay her down in her cot.  She is still partially awake though, so I know she can fall asleep there....although she is exhausted at that point. 

It was 12:30 am last night before she finally petered out poor little thing.

[empowered mama]

Poor thing....that is a little odd to me.  In regards to the routine, I would suggest you could maybe keep her up a little longer but if she seems tired by bed then certainly it's best to read your LO and put her to bed when she seems tired.  At this point though, it doesn't seem like a routine-related issue.

Does she have any eating and/or reflux issues that you know of?  Are you feeding her right before bedtime?

[carlicost]

Nothing that I'm aware of.  She is fine during the day and doesn't mind laying flat or anything like that as she sleeps flat in her cot at night.  She is a good burper and I generally can get them out if one is stuck without too much trouble.  I haven't fed her right before bed.  She usually gets fed around 6-6:30 and then down for bed an hour or so later.  I usually feed her again in the middle of her crying fest around 10 in hopes of settling her down but it never works.  She certainly has plenty of time upright prior to going to bed if that's the concern.  During the night, I rarely have to burp her as she is so relaxed during her feed.

That's why I'm starting to think maybe this is just a bit of a colicky thing?  I can't seem to label it as anything else....

[empowered mama]

Okay hun, if you don't mind would you post your current routine one more time?  I'm going to ask a few other mods if they can take a look to see if anything sticks out to them....

Hopefully we'll get some insight soon!

[carlicost]

Okay, here's what went down today, which is pretty standard give or take an hour depending on what time she wakes up.

E - 8:15
A - 8:35
S - 9:00
E - 12:15
A - 12:35
S - 1:00
E - 3:15
A - 3:35
S - 4:00 (short nap)
E - 5:15
A - 5:35
S - 5:45 (short nap)
E - 7:15
A - 7:35
S - 7:50

What I expect will happen now, as it has every other night, is she will wake sometime around 9-9:30 and then I won't be able to calm her down until at least 11:30-12 am.  The odd day she has slept from her 4 pm nap until 6:30 or so, but irregardless the outcome appears to be the same.

Like I said before, she goes down like a dream pretty much every time she naps, but I can tell she takes a little bit longer to settle down for bed time.  Last night when she woke from her 5:45 nap she was already buzzed, with her eyes wide open and her arms flailing once I took her out of the swaddle.

Thanks again for your help.  I curious to see if anyone else has any ideas.  In the meantime, I'll brace myself for another long evening!

[carlicost]

Yep, she just woke up at 9 now and is completely wild.  Flailing about and crying.  You would think she has pain, but she acts like this every night.  I jiggle her around to see if she has any gas, but nothing comes out.  I think it is just how she acts when she is overtired, but you wouldn't expect it as she hasn't be overstimulated and is generally well rested as she slept so well during the day. 

I'll go try to comfort her the best I can...