2-3 times a NW 7 mnth old - I feel we are at a new "low"point

[EloysH]

OMG he woke happy!   and actually fed straight away --

[hrk]

Super hugs, Eloys.  I know you must be so sad.  I think it is really your decision, hon.  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX

[Buntybear]

Hi, How has Kai been?? How was the party!

BBx

[anna*]

Ah that's great! Babies are so resilient. Yes, if their cries are repeatedly ignored, it is bound to cause some issues, but I really believe that (depending on the baby) if it happens one time, chances are no harm will come. Things happen, you know? Mums get ill, they have to tend to other siblings - all sorts of things happen which mean that sometimes, some babies of excellent parents will cry themselves to sleep. It's not something to loose sleep over. You are doing an amazing job.

[EloysH]

thanks Anna     I guess sh*t happens sometimes.    We have decided to go ahead and resettle the first feed of each night. We have a rare window where he is not teething, reacting to a food, or doing a food challenge and his reflux has been quite good.    

I think the main priority for my sanity right now is to try and get some longer stretches of sleep at night.  And it was great to see him eat his solids properly today with just the one night feed.


So a quick question - he is due to wake (for the first night feed) in 2 hours or so - around 11pm.
DH will resettle him in his arms or as required until he falls asleep on his first waking. We know he will go ballistic and fully expect it to take about an hour.      Whast if he wakes 10 mins later?  What if he wakes 45 mins late?  When do we feed?   I know he will be hungry.  I am inclined to feed him the next time he wakes provided its over 20 mins since he fell asleep. What do you think? Or should we work with a cut off time?  

[Gypsymom]

This might be a daft thought, but I think I would wake *him* just a touch before 11, give a full feed (almost like an awake DF) and then settle the NEXT one instead, doing so as many times as necessary before 3am (ie. it is not unreasonable to push him to go 4 hours). I suspect if you can get those wee hours out of the equation, you'll all sleep better and have a better foundation on which to proceed?

Xx

[anna*]

I like Gypsymom's idea. How did the night go?

[Buntybear]

Yep - I agree with Gypsymom. I think that when trying to wean feeds it is the very early morning one (2amish) you try and get rid of first, leaving the DF and then the early morning one (6amish). Course that means you are awake in the small hours of the morning with a screaming baby but hopefully if you DF then you have got a few hours kip in first??

[bakershaker]

Hugs about the CIO...when Myla was about 2 months old, the same thing happeend to us..but I woke to her screaming. I felt horrible! But it didn't do any damage to our trust.

I agree with keeping your dream feed for now, and getting rid of the other feed. When Baker was a baby he had alot of NW to feed. He would never take a full bottle in the morning until we cut out the middle of the night feed. He definatly had habitual wakings, because after just a few nights of pushings his feeds he just stopped waking up.
With Myla we never dream fed at all, so she just woke for her 12 and 3-4feed. We stopped the 12 one first though cause that's what worked for her, and then pushed the 3 am one and within a few days she was not waking at all.
Good luck hun!

[hrk]

Eloys, I think you have gotten some great advice on that early evening feed.  :-) 

[EloysH]

thanks girls for your advice 

So we braced ourselves last night for the worst.

BUT,  he never woke until 3:00AM which is unheard of!  He must have heard us talking and decided to sleep a bit longer  Or else the NW gods were kind to us. Or else that CIO made a difference...who knows.

So I just fed him at 3:00am - a very big feed (that was a 7 hour stretch) and then woke at 7:00am, what a cheeky monkey. He was hungry in the morning, that was fabulous too.

 We are   bracing oursleves again tonight for the worst though.  I think he was just sooo exhausted, that's why he only woke at once.

Tonight not sure what to do..... since he has done a long stretch first up  I can try for that again and not feed until 2-3am or else try Shannons idea.  I am nervous to introduce a dream feed though, in the past it has meant extra wakings later on. And besides, he is doing 12pm  and 4am feeds on a good day so 4 hour stretches already, I need to make him go longer than 4 hours.

 

[hrk]

I do wonder about the dream feed actually causing more wakings with the reflux.  It means he has something to reflux sooner in the night.  If you have tried that with less success, I would follow your instincts to try to push it further in to the night.  ;-)

[huntersmummyinoz]

hi hun, you've gotten great advice already, just popping over here as requested i'll explain my reasoning behind how we did it. we had a df at 10pm which was 50/50 whether he woke, 1/2am feed, 4/5am feed. we decided to drop the 1/2am feed first because we had a df but also because the lightest phase of night sleep is from midnight til 5/5.30am, so we wanted to teach him to sleep without a feed in the lighter REM sleep in which they are more likely to waken easily first (and also take longer to settle without a night feed). we then ditched the 4/5am feed, as figured we'd only have to get him back to sleep once and could then be up to start the day. and we still have the df which we will tackle soon, but because this is their deepest sleep phase of the night, it is 'in theory' easier to settle them.

with the first feed we dropped, my ideal feed time was 4am, i allowed 30mins grace to feed earlier. but anything before that (yep even 35 minutes) was a resettle, and we would resettle like pp described, until he fell asleep even if it went past the time i was planning to feed. that way there was no confusion as to 'is she going to feed me if i cry long enuf' or not. the first night was LONG, 1.5hrs to get him back to sleep, second and third nights quick resettle (under 15mins), 4th night regression, 1.5hrs again (this happened with both feeds we dropped), 5th night didnt wake.

dropping the 4/5am feed i reduced 2mins each night (1min each side) got down to 3mins each side and then dropped it. i started by picking him up for some cuddle time the first two nights to get rid fo the feed first, and then worked on settling him in his cot. took a few weeks for him to not wake at all at this time but i think there were some routine issues/too much day sleep/teeth at play there.  he now STTN 50% of the time or needs a quick resettle at this time. i think i was helping him too much and sshh/patting longer than really needed so have backed off how much i help him the last two weeks and it has improved.

jean has a good point with the refluxing, my only other thought tho is that a df would be closer to when his meds are taken, whereas as it gets closer to morning he has been longest without medication (ie. more refluxy after the 4am feed), how is he usually after this feed?

i think the biggest thing, no matter what strategy you choose is to be consistent

more hugs hun

[EloysH]

oh thanks Kirry,  I was just about to pick up the phone and thought I'd better check here first  I have a clear picture of what you did, good.  Is he still EW? Great that he sttn 50% of the time now!  I bet that dream feed is really easy to drop for you, since you did the hard ones first.

It really helps to hear that we need to be consistent.  For the first time in a while I feel I have the resolve to see this through.  I think the CIO has alot to do with it, and also that I really want my cleep back.  He is old enough!!   I hope we don't get a regression night.. ugh.  Each night we are bracing ourselves for the worst though.





So last night was night 3 including the CIO night.  We have found ourselves on this path - resettle this first feed 11-12pm and when he wakes again, (provided its past 2am), he gets one feed. I'll be happy to go with one feed a night for a few weeks. Last night he woke at 12pm, and started to go quiet after a while, we thought he'd put himself back to sleep.  Alas, he cried within a few minutes, then started getting really angry, so DH went to him,  it took about 15 mins to get him to sleep!         He woke at 3am (good boy) I fed him, then not again till 7am!   (this is seeming tooo easy KWIM?).  Maybe tonight we will get a regression...     Two nights of only one feed a night feels pretty good though.

I am hoping the 3am feed naturally gets later and later over the coming weeks.  Do you think that is feasible?   


 If the first feed is past 2 am hopefully it means that he will only have the one feed that night.  Any other wakings after the feed are a resettle. Lets hope that we don't have to go through that too often.

Oh and yesterday I got him down for his naps without a feed - yay! (well a feed 10 mins before anyway).

thanks again

[hrk]

Eloys, it sounds like great progress.  :-)  XXXXXXXXXXXXXXXX