How do you know if shush pat is right for your LO

[willsmum]

My DD is 5 weeks old and appears to be an angel/textbook that does like alot of sleep (DS who is 3 is like this and still would have a 3 hour nap if I let him and go to bed at 7pm). 

Having to do 1 or 2 naps a day (usually 1) in car seat or pram due to pre school drop off but the 1pm ish one is always in cot in room.  What I wanted to know is if shush pat is the right thing for all babies?  She does appear to settle well for sleep awake but on occasion if she has got over tired (she is usually wanting to go back down after an hour of activity time, so sometimes I slightly miss the window due to DS) I am obviously having to settle her.  I have used the 4 S's since birth, have white noise and swaddle but whereas DS did respond well to shush pat DD just seems to dislike it.  I'm not sure whether her reaction is over stimulation and I need to continue with S/P or that she geniunely finds S/P itself too stimulating.  What  happened just before is I gave up as she seemed to be getting more and more over stimulated.  So I put her down and she did a (I think!) - mantra cry - DS never really did this so I think it is a mantra cry for 6 minutes on and off and went to sleep.

How would others proceed if she is struggling to go down. 

Edit she just woke up after 15 min - any thoughts please
xx

[kikoz]

Hi, it could be she is overtired, since she woke after 15mins...
Now, shush and pat is the most used for babies in general and most taken well too by them.
Instead of pat u could rub or caress the back bc some babies do find pat stimulating.
You also need to find the right A for her before really deciding if it suits her or not... Mantra cry is good sign she could settle herself, so once u feel she's ready for bed just swaddle and put her in bed, maybe she ll just go down alone.
If she s struggling, you always shush for her while she is still in bed without picking her up and pause ur hand on her, if you put her on her side, u could rub her back gently.
Sometimes instead of shush they also respond to low singing...?
This has worked for us... Dimming lights also if nit total darkness also did.
HTH xxxx

[~Sara~]

What I wanted to know is if shush pat is the right thing for all babies?

Like pp said and from what I've seen, no it's not.  Babies with reflux, for example, can actually be MORE bothered by shh/pat.  Some babies like a certain kind of shh (or no shh) or a certain kind of pat (on the bottom, no pat at all).  If you think it overstimulates her, try a different version.  See what works for her to help her calm down--that's the most important thing.  Tracy suggested shh/pat because LO's can't concentrate on the crying, the shushing and the patting all at once, and eventually they stop crying.  If you can find something else that she can focus on...maybe she likes white noise or soft music?...I say, try it!

Now, re: that 15 minute nap...young infants still have a strong moro reflex and they jolt as they drift to sleep.  When the jolt is big enough, it can startle them awake, then they're OT, and have to go back to sleep again (another 20ish minutes of drifting off).  Plus, if she's OT or OS, those jolts can be more disruptive.  Using the swaddle helps, but if you know she startles awake easily even with that, you might try staying with her for the first 20 minutes or so, applying gentle pressure to her arms and legs so that they don't move as much.

HTH!

[willsmum]

Ok many thanks ladies.  I will try the different S/P ways.  I would like to help her through the startle reflexes but with DS around it is hard being up in her room for that long.  He is very good and I have put a 'nap box' out for him- i.e toys only for when I am putting DD down but still.  To be honest I think I really need to try and commit to a better and more consistent wind down routine..- I tend to feel anxious whilst I am doing it because I suppose of DS and worrying what I will do if she wont go down.  Calm is the way forward but these first 6 weeks are hard with two!
Thanks again

[~Sara~]

If this helps any...your DD is still very young and it's hard to sleep train with more than one kiddo around, so maybe try tackling one nap at a time?  So, maybe try to get the first nap just right, but then APOP the other naps.  Or APOP just the catnap.  I know that works for some more with two or more.  Only have the one myself, but I'm sure I will be employing tactics such as this when any future kids come my way

Good luck--let us know how things go

[kikoz]

Hi, I only have now but xo understand the difficulties. Maybe if u go check on the board of two and more u can get some ideas x big hugs and good luck xxxx

[willsmum]

Thank you!  What is APOP?  Accidental parenting.........

[willsmum]

Just did a search and found what it means.   So how would you APOP in general?  Feed or suckle to sleep or something?

[kikoz]

I used to take in the pram for the cat nap...whatever really suits u and ur lo .... X

[~Sara~]

So how would you APOP in general?  Feed or suckle to sleep or something?

It's really dependent on your LO, but generally I would stay away from any feeding to sleep associations.  And remember to use APOP with the right mindset: it's temporary and you shouldn't do it all the time...which is why I suggested doing it for a nap or two and slowly work on getting all sleep to be independent sleep.  Some LOs do better with an all or nothing approach, and others can handle a bit of APOP woven in throughout their day.

Good luck!  Keep us posted with how the sleep training goes