easy routine and sleep issues?

[kimmbba]

OK, he woke at 10 crying and standing up in his crib.  Nearly got him settled and the dogs started barking right outside his door (they're on high alert with hubby gone).  So it was back to screaming and was inconsoleable.  Fed, GUZZLED 4 oz, may have eaten more but was sleepy enough to fall back to sleep

Didn't wake again until 5am.  However, he was just playing around so I left him.  He was in there for an hour and 40 min!  Some playing, then a little rest, then talking, etc.  I'm going to put him down at 9:30 still and see how that goes.  I just wonder, now that he's been doing basically 4 hours first A if once he starts waking later that will be too soon.  I guess time will tell.

[jackman]

Kim
I have to do a preschool run, but will be back to give you some of what I found with my DS once the OT was under control. Kirry, if you are out there and have some ideas, please don't hesitate to chime in. You wouldn't be stepping on my toes.....

[jackman]

Ok Kim, here is what I'm thinking...

I've learned over the last few weeks that once lo's are taking decent naps and are not OT, EWs are usually because that last A time before bed isn't long enough and OT causes NWs. I can't explain why Ethan woke after he went to bed because he had such long naps yesterday (more than 3hrs total), but I do think the EWs was due to a very short A time right before bed. My DS did similar things in the morning of going in and out of sleep if he woke early and I just let him be after we caught up on OT.

I think we have a good basis to work with now and we should take a look at where we can tweak. The first thing that jumps at me is total daytime sleep. I think you need to limit it to 2.5-3hrs total. Look back at last week and see how much DT sleep gave you the least amount of NWs. Use that total DT sleep as a basis then reduce it by 5-10min until you find the ideal amount to help STTN (ladies in our BC suggested this to me and it worked).

Secondly you need to figure out the best A times for your lo that gives you the best nap results. The most critical is the last A time to BT that won't get your lo OT. Again, look back over last week and see what A time to bed was ideal where you didn't get a wake up before midnight.

Your question about Ethan waking later and what to do about that 4hr A time - for us, once things were settled, DS started waking around 6:10-6:40am and this really worked for us as I have to do preschool run with DD. It did mean that bedtime was around the same time as wake up, sometimes as late as 7pm. So you need to think what is the ideal time for you and Ethan and work from there.

Lastly, if you truly want Ethan to STTN you CAN'T feed him if he wakes.  But let him try and resettle himself like you did this morning. Of course if he is screaming and crying go to him, but again don't feed him. I know it is hard, but it pays off in the end - trust me. I had to do the same with my DS once he turned 7-7.5mo as I knew he was eating 3 very good meals a day and drinking 20-23oz of FF a day. You have to break the habit of them waking and thinking they are hungry. You will see a difference in a couple of days, I promise.

HTH. Good luck and let me know how things go.

[kimmbba]

THANKS!!  This is all great advice.  I'll try to figure out the good DT sleep, last A time, and TRY to stop feeding him   I know he's getting enough to eat in the day...half of feeding him is ME needing him to fall asleep faster.  Now that the naps and EWs are getting better and I feel more rested, I'm going to try to really stop!

I'll keep you posted

[Huds Mom]

Hi Kim, Kirry and Jackman, just wanted to jump in and say thank you as I am in abit of a OT and EW/NW mess again as just when we get it under control something happens. I tried to cap the am nap and that caused issues and now we are away for a few days and DS has not slept more than a few hrs at night. I will be taking your great suggestions once we get home to try and get us back on track.

Just to add about the feeding, it is hard but stick with it or wean gradually as it will work and pay off big time in the end.

Goodluck Kim.

[huntersmummyinoz]

apologies, i've tried to get time to respond, even had this post open all day yesterday and still no darn time!! DH is away, toilet training ds1, and EW and teeth for ds2, will try and get back to you soon but want to read thru properly to give a decent response. hugs for the EW hun

[huntersmummyinoz]

ok, it has taken me so long to get back here that i'll need an update. he is getting teeth now right? how have the last few days been?

[kimmbba]

Well, now that I have realized the teeth are coming I feel bad   Poor kid was going through who knows what, and I'm just thinking he's habitually waking up!  I originally thought he was getting two on the right, top....but today I can see the others on the left too.  So that's FOUR teeth coming in basically together.

Yesterday was a mess, but I knew it would be after a 2 hour nap in the middle of the day.  Today was great, woke up at 6:30 (after 3 NWs because of OT from too long of an A before BT).  Nap at 9:30 for 1.25 hours and another nap at 2 for 45 min.  I'd like the naps a little longer, but all things considered didn't feel this was bad.  Was asleep while drinking his BT bottle but then rustled around until 7.  Hopefully the night will be better.  I gave him some "tylenol" for any pain he might have with the teeth.

I'm off to bed...I'm tired from all the times I had to get up last night.  Even though I'm tired I always have a hard time falling back to sleep!

[jackman]

Just letting you know that Ethan is following exactly what my DS was doing. Once the top front teeth came through, it wasn't long for the two teeth on either side to show and our EWs worked itself out. I think that is why our lo's were waking so much for so long. 4 teeth in one go is alot!!! Just keep at the routine and adjust the nap times to get longer naps since teething has subsided. You will see a lot of improvement with night sleep Kim. Have a great night.

[kimmbba]

Well, up twice.  I'm SURE it was the teeth, as the second time I was alert enough to think about giving him some tylenol.  After that, I think it was 1am, he was out until 6.  SO there is improvement.

I still just can't believe all four teeth at once!!!!  and of course feel guilt that I wasn't giving him some pain stuff in the nights   Good thing they can't remember this later in life!

[kimmbba]

UGGGH!  Terrible couple of nights   Up three times last night.  10:30, 1, and 3.  The two teeth on the left side aren't all the way through, so I'm hoping that this is why and not because I'm reinforcing the eating in the night.  I cut back on oz. as I thought that would be a good place to start, but it seems that he just woke up more to make up for it.

He's also had two very short afternoon naps the last couple of days, 30 and 40 min.  Maybe OT then at night along with the teeth?  His total DT sleep was about 2 hours.  I'll keep to the "program" with his naps.  He's waking on his own after 1.5 hours so I think that the morning A is good. 

[jackman]

Sorry to hear Kim about the rough nights. Hugs. Sound like Ethan is OT again due to the poor naps and the fact you are trying to cut out the feedings. That is to be expected when you are trying to wean. You say that the first nap is good. How long is your second A for nap #2? Still working with the set nap time?

Hope first nap goes well today.

[kimmbba]

We're pretty much doing naps at 9:30, and he's up by 11, then I shoot for 2:30 for the second nap.  Although, he's seemed tired/crabby (maybe just the teeth) around 2 so sometimes he's down around 2:15.

We're about to head up for first nap, so hopefully he sleeps for his usual time.  I'm waiting for him to finish pooping, so he doesn't wake up early

[jackman]

ok so when he short naps, what time is BT? You could always try and push that second A time a bit by 15 min to see if you can get a longer nap from him, say at least an hour? Are you still get EWs?

[kimmbba]

BT is about 6-6:15 when he short naps.  Just a little early, by about 15-30 min.  He's waking early, but kind of jsut restless and actually getting vocal about 6am.  He starts about 5:15am

He went down for his AM nap about 9:45 so hopefully no OT nap...I'll try to hold out on second nap 15 min.  I was just worried this would cause more OT?  I was thinking the 30-40 min was because he was OT.  BUT, I would like to have his second nap longer/later so that he isn't going to bed at 6!