5 week old won't nap, takes 2h to put to bed

[trimbler]

Hi, I'm new to this so sorry if there's already a relevant thread - please let me know if so!
My 5 week old won't nap! Well, sometimes he will surprise us and go to sleep in his crib awake-ish and stay asleep, but only ever for 45 mins max (again, occasionally he might go 1.5h or even 2h but this is rare). Usually, it takes an hour or more of pu/pd or shh-ing etc in the crib before he'll sleep. It often takes an hour for him to finish a feed (breast) and by the time he's had a nappy change I try and get him to bed as he's starting to look tired, so I can't really cut his activity time any shorter - sometimes I don't even change the nappy if he hasn't passed stools in it in order to get him to bed sooner, and I do try and speed feeds up by waking him if he's drowsy etc. I'm trying the EASY schedule from the twin's sample in the BW book, ie feeds every 3h (+/- half an hour where necessary) starting at 6:30am, then dream feeds at 9:30pm and 12:00am (the plan is to shift this back to 11:30pm but he hasn't slept more than 4h at night yet). However the A time is much shorter than in the book! I can't cluster feed in early evening as it usually takes so long to get him to sleep in the first place. I do sometimes now resort to holding him to go to sleep, after trying pu/pd etc for ages, as it seems important that he at least gets some sleep in the day! What do you think, at this stage is it more important that he get sleep at all than that he falls asleep in his crib? He hates swaddling, seems to really struggle against it as he's more comfortable with his hands above his head (he was like that in the womb!). Also he's not hyped up when we try and get him to bed, it's only during the 'pre-bed cuddle' or once he's in bed and can't get to sleep that he gets really frustrated and cries and gets too worked up. HELP! I feel I have to spend the whole day trying to get him to sleep, my husband has been off work this week and we've both been trying really hard but it just doesn't seem to be working. I have no idea how I'll be able to eat or anything once he goes back to work... We started out on EASY and it seemed to be ok for the first couple of weeks as he was so sleepy anyway, although we didn't let him fall asleep on the breast. It's just after those 2 weeks that it's all gone wrong and he gets so tired and it just gets worse through the day. Then it usually takes 2h to get him to sleep at night, however he'll sleep in longer stretches then although he wakes around 3:30am, when I wait for a bit to see if he settles (sometimes he does) otherwise I feed him. He's still getting one night feed after the dream feed, but I don't feed him if it's less than 3h since the last one. I'm still not very confident at distinguishing his different cries! And also I have no idea when his fussing/crying needs intervention, and whether to pu/pd or try and calm him in the crib...
Sorry this is so long and rambling - my husband was holding our LO but now he's woken so it's probably time for a feed (we've just shifted back to GMT - in case you're wondering why the timing of this conflicts with the schedule I've given!)
Thanks in advance to anyone who answers this!

PS Just thought I should add that after initially having our lo sleep in our living room, we spent 3 days really going at this in his own room with black-out blinds, but as we found no difference at all in the quality of his napping, we've moved him back into the living room for daytime naps so he's more accessible when he wakes early - and so I'm not trapped in his room trying to get him to sleep/back to sleep whenever I'm not feeding him! Any thoughts on whether this is a bad idea - we do keep noise to a minimum but can't keep our living room dark while he naps! We also often have a calming music CD on during naptime in the hope that this might distract from some noises (eg we live between two railway lines!)

[trimbler]

Hey does anyone have any advice for me? My husband's just gone back to work and we decided to try our LO back in his room for naps as it's darker. I think he's just gone into deep sleep now after 1.5h of trying so that's better than usual, but he's only got 15mins now till the next feed! I'm really worried about how to cope alone now and feel such an awful mum as not only can I not get him to sleep properly but I also really start resenting him and getting stressed and upset, which can't be good for him. I really don't want to resort to CIO but I honestly often feel like just shutting the door on him and running as far away as possible Don't worry I'd never do that but it's just so frustrating, I know he needs more sleep but he just won't, we seem to be trying everything, keeping feeds and nappy change as short as poss. He doesn't get to the point of agitation before trying to get him to bed, only during the wind down or once he's in his cot - but it's not as if we're doing anything new, we've been putting him down awake but drowsy from the beginning, which worked when he was sleepier but now it's just getting worse and worse and it consumes my every waking thought, which is just plain silly I know - I mean I should be getting on with housework now or at least having a short nap myself, but instead I'm back on here looking for answers! Has anyone else at least been here and seen things improve?

[Maxmiliansmom]

Hi there! Big HUGS!

Have you read Tracyīs book Babywhisperer?

In there she explains the routine a 5 weeks old baby should be on!
That you mention:
3 hours E.A.S.Y.

And also about sleep training, i see you write that you use pu/pd as well as shh/pat.
AT this age you should not use a pu/pd and only shh/pat. I have had success with this and i started with it at when my son was around 5 weeks. I only had to do it 2-3 weeks before he was falling asleep on his own.

Also itīs worth mentioning that just looking at your face is more than enough stimulation for a baby at this age so keep all the toys and other potential stimulations away for now as they get overstimulated really easy and wonīt be able to settle to sleep because of it.
So for now I agree that itīs more important that he sleeps than how he falls asleep, but in order to have him fall asleep you need to be aware of everything that is happening in the day that can cause him to get overstimulated/overtired.

Also Tracy mentions about breastfeeding that you should BF max 15-20 on each breast! Or you can even pump and have bottle ready so you know exactly how much he is feeding. Is it possible he is using you as a paci since his feeds are so long?

And whatever you do do NOT do the CIO!!:-) Thatīs not an option as it will cause more trouble for you later on;-)

This is gonna be fine... donīt worrie. Remember he is brand new and needs time to adjust. Try to stick to the EASY and sleep as much as you can yourself.  And things will get better, thatīs a promise! Although itīs not possible to see that while youīre stuck in a hard situation...

HUGS!!!

[bluegreenorange]

Just want to share what worked for us.  Maybe it will at least give you an idea.
To put our son to bed at night my husband discovered the following.
We would swaddle him tight, yes he fussed while being wrapped.  Then he was fussy as in protesting sleep.  Wedid what worked to calm him down - for him that was walking him around the house with only a few dim lights on, he would get distracted by the lights and stop fussing in about 10 minutes.  Then we shut all but one light off (o we could see baby's eyes) and would lay him on the couch facing the back cushions.  My husband would sit lengthwise with his legs on the couch kind of holding our son in.  he would hold the paci in his mouth and just wait him out, as I say. ( we would watch a movie on Netflix with headphones) It used to take 2 hours with some 2-5 minute fusses.  We mostly needed to be there for the jolts when he would wake himself up - we would put the paci back in and gently hold his legs and arms from moving in the swaddle.
Now one month later we've moved to his bed and only 45 minutes worth of 'waiting him out'.  Some nights, I put him down drowsy and just lay on the floor waiting for him to wake up, which never happens.  Most nights I have to shush/pat a bit.

From this I learned to be consistent.  What ever you do to put him to sleep, do it every night, he will learn.
For naps, I've always put him down drowsy and let him fuss for 5 minutes if needed.  And 5 minutes was usually all he needed.  He now takes naps easily.

Hope this helps.  Encouragement to be consistent and improvement should come. But it might take a month or two.

[trimbler]

Thanks for the encouragement, aren't husbands great Mine does bedtime to give me some time out, which I need to learn to use to rest! He reads whilst waiting our son out in his carrycot - unless he accidently sends himself to sleep

[trimbler]

What's happened??! Monday was actually fairly ok, averaged 1.5h each nap in the end, which although isn't 100% ideal is loads better than before! But yesterday and today have just been awful, I haven't done anything differently but every time we enter his room for the nap he starts screaming, madder and madder each time, like he knows what's coming and hates it! And I just don't know what to do about the pu/pd or shh/pat - at times only the pu/pd has calmed him (I'm talking about when I put him in drowsy and calm, he drops off for 5-10 mins then wakes up and starts screaming again) - as if just patting and shh-ing him in the cot doesn't give him enough assurance? The pat/shh seemed to work fine on Monday without resorting to pu/pd but today he's just been inconsolable. That is, until I call 'time out' after 45 mins or so (as suggested in TH's sleep interview) - I pop him in his chair in the living room and he's quiet and content to look around - so I'm sure he's not in pain or anything else that's causing him to cry other than not wanting to go to sleep. I don't know, the more I persist with this the madder he gets and the more uptight I get - I'm sure he senses that too and I really worry about the effect that's having on him as he's crying and I'm crying and we're just winding each other up when he should be able to feel completely safe and secure with me. Will he remember this? I feel I've let him down and broken trust by feeling this way and not being able to be a calming presence for him and wonder if he'll never feel secure with me again? Help! Has anyone else experienced things just getting worse and worse like this? He was really good at getting himself to sleep at the beginning, I don't understand why it's got so bad now, it's not as if it's even a change for him, other than that he's just getting older and more wilful perhaps? He's only sleeping now because my aunt and uncle kindly volunteered to walk him around the block in the pram to give me a break, so I fear he'll wake up again any minute when he realises where he is! Ok so after all that rambling I guess my questions are:
-Is it really always better to stick to shh/pat rather than pu/pd (5 weeks old)?
-How can I make nap times less scary/agravating for him? Ie he's fine, not grumpy at all just starting to give little tired signs, before going into his room, but then he starts screaming and hitting me when he knows I'm about to put him down - so it seems like he just has a really bad connotation with going to bed, I'm not sure how that started or how to correct it?
-How can I stay calm myself when he's screaming and how much affect do you think it has on him long-term or on our relationship when I'm crying and stressed myself and probably not handling him very lovingly?
-I feel I've tried everything, what's left to try (other than AP or CIO?)
-Is it normal to have big regressions like this and then get back on track?

[Maxmiliansmom]

Hi again,

well first of all HUGS AGAIN! This all can be so frustrating i know.. But it is so important like mention by bluegreenorange to be consitent.
The shh/pat may not give instant results! I remember how exhausted i was from doing it but i made up my mind and stuck with it, after days of doing the exact same shh/pat routine for all naps and sleep time it started to show progress! Itīs not an overnight thing. I stayed most of the time at the house for two weeks in order to have him sleep in his cot at all naps and sleep time!
Also, if you keep changing the routine (places to sleep and ways put to sleep) The baby notices the change and that can be confusing. For intant, if you donīt always put him to sleep in his room that can be a part of why he cries the times you try.
Buttom line is E.A.S.Y. is FAR FROM EASY! But it sooo worth it. If you think this is something for you and your child, you gotta make a decission and simply stick to it no matter how long it take, eventually it will work, thats a promise!!!!:-)

To answer your question:
Whatīs left to try is consistensy!! It works!
Again CIO is NOT an option unless you īre asking for trouble!!!

Yes it is normal to have regression and there will come times when he ll get sick, teething, travles etc. things that will mess up your routine and you ll have to start over again, but for each time it will get easier as the baby will be familiar with it.

Changing the routine is the worse you can do, then it is actually better to co sleep or whatever else you wanna do as long as you keep doing that all the time!!! So itīs about thinking ahead in time and knowing what you are investing in!

I can tell you this, my 14months year old selfsooths to sleep every single time. He loves his crib and to sleep. But he has never co sleeped with me and i was always having the same and still do have the same rituals for sleep!! he knows I mean business and he knows of nothing else so he doesnt ask for anything else.
He also has been through teething, sickness, travels etc. where we have gone routine wonky but we have menaged to get back on track each time with a little bit of work, never as much as it took me the first time!

I recommend you to truly think about all of this, read about shh/pat:

http://babywhispererforums.com/index.php?topic=26671.0


Hope this helps!!

[Maxmiliansmom]

Also, about CIO, a 5 weeks old does NOT cry to manipulate you or to drive you crazy. That is the only way he is telling you he needs you... and if you think about it this way how can you then not try to meet his needs? :-)

[bluegreenorange]

Sorry, I'm just checking back now.  I hope things have calmed down for you.  It can be very hard to be consistent when things are crazy.  I hope we are providing encouragement to stick with it.
I have had many indecisive moments, and found it better when I just decide and stick to it. 

I think when you both are stressed, that moment is the worst. I don't think it will affect him too much long term.  To calm yourself down, do what works.  Keep you intent in mind - to get him to sleep on his own - but if you have to hold him 5-10 minutes longer, I think that's okay for a while.  If really needed, maybe leave his room until you both are calm again, then start over with the nap routine.  With any of these, just don't make them a habit.

Let us know how it's going - we hope it has calmed down.

[trimbler]

Thanks bluegreenorange! Well, not sure the napping/bedtime has improved much, it's not bad some days, and others it's crazy! But I think what has changed is my attitude/reduced expectations/resignation As you say, we're just sticking with it and hoping it will get better eventually - and a big plus is that he's often STTN now, so I'm getting more sleep and feeling more able to handle it even when it's not going so smoothly... How's your LO's bedtime going now?

[bluegreenorange]

STTN is wonderful!
Attitude has made a HUGE difference with me and implementing the entire EASY routine.  I just had to realize he doesn't have to be by the book all the time to be a happy healthy baby.

Bedtimes are much better - when we are home.  I can put him down around 8:15, leave the room and go to bed.  Unfortunately 2-3 nights a week we have group meeting until 9ish.  Like last night, I put him in bed at 9:30 and had to go in several times and he finally slept at 10:30pm.  But then he didn't need to eat until 7am!

[trimbler]

Wow - sounds good! How old's your LO now? I'm afraid we haven't had the courage to go out with him in the evenings for fear he'll just cry and then not go to bed when we get back... One day we'll take it in turns to go out!