sleep is falling apart here

[*Becky*]

so we have NW's, EW's and rubbish naps. When it falls apart with h it tends to be extreme and I need some help.
he is not teething so guess this is OT related due to clock change. He did start nursery yesterday am but things have been bad for a few days so can't blame that yet really.

Friday
A - vicious EW around 5am. i went in and resettled him and he did go back to sleep till 6.45am
S - 12.45-1.45pm -
Bedtime - asleep by 7pm

Saturday
A - somewhere around 5.45am

Not sure how to play this as he is not a good napper so I am worried to bring it forward in case it just leaves me with even longer to bed.

Scared about earlier bedtime because in the past this has meant an earlier wake and then due to bad naps it is so hard to get the day back on track.

He is just shattered and so am I. NW's are so rare for him and up until this week we had been doing so well for us, I am scared we are regressing in a big way.

In the past with teeth I tried to keep to the same routine pretty much and he would sort himself out but not so sure this time, he is so tired.

Help   

[anna*]

Would he nap longer if you laid down with him and had a nap together?

[*Becky*]

No unfortunately not Anna, he would not nap at all if I was in the same room.

[babybarr]

What about a 6.30pm bed - then even if he wakes early he would've had more sleep overall?

[*Becky*]

problem with that is with an earlier morning wake time it will take us ages to get back to normal bedtime due to rubbish naps but it is what I would suggest too - just does not work for us. grrr x

[babybarr]

You don't think he would just sleep till his "normal" time as he is tired?  I know what you mean though with rubbish naps, you just can't win can you?

[*Becky*]

i think it is the only thing i can really try. Just put him down for a nap at 11.50am so fingers crossed. xx

[*Becky*]

so another 1 hour nap and crying fits when I tried to lengthen it.

What do you reckon? Stick with 7pm ish bedtime and hope he just sorts himself  or
earlier bedtime and if so what time?

12 hours total sleep is not enough for him.

[clazzat]

Have you tried having a later nap and a really short A to bed?  I found with E that it is the total A for the day that is important, rather than each individual A.  So, particularly when she was having a lot of EWs, she would have 6/6.5h in the morning but 3.5/4 in the afternoon.  Even now her afternoon is only 4.5h.

[*Becky*]

i think i may have to try that. It was all going really well, not sure what this is about.
the problem is if he is up at 6am and i do 6.5 hours so put him down at 12.30pm and he only sleeps till 1.30/2pm it is still quite a long A to bed.
i feel like i can't win and am fed up. think i may just stick with 7pm bed.

[clazzat]

If he was in bed at 6.30 would you be guaranteed an early start, or might he sleep 12h?

[*Becky*]

It is so long since I have done a bedtime before 7pm I am not sure. I think it is very doubtful he would do 12 hours but 11.5 would be better, I just worry about a 5.30am wake!

[Tweakster]

But a 5:30 wake up with a longer night will put you in a better position to move your day ahead than a later bedtime and another short night adding to the cumulative OT.  You need to increase his sleep totals non?

[*Becky*]

but i don't see how i move the day ahead with a kid who is only napping an hour. how do i do that?

I went for 6.45pm and he went straight to sleep.

[Tweakster]

Is it always an hour?  For us sleep begets sleep, so if we get a good night, we often get an even longer nap.  Sometimes that happens.  I just think you can push harder on a 1 hr nap if you have a longer night behind you.